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giuseppe96
Guest
That really makes me angry, placing Christ off to the side while exalting mere men behind the altar. If one were to switch the place of the tabernacle and the chairs, it would be possible to celebrate the EF.
If you could, what changes if any would you make to the Ordinary Form?
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OraLabora
Guest
It is possible to celebrate the EF without the tabernacle in the sanctuary. It was done this way in many monasteries, cathedrals, conventual churches and collegial churches. In fact in those the norms called for the tabernacle to be away from the main altar, in pre-Conciliar days.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I could go with this. Also, I hated seeing the GReek Kyrie go. I would return it to Greek as a symbol of our one time unity with the Greek churches and our hope for reunion. I would also want at least one prayer in Latin; perhaps the Agnus Dei. Are we not supposed to be a Communion of Saints? There were plenty of them before us.
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Maximilian75
Guest
No one made it go- it’s still completely licit.
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Usige
Guest
In our homiletics classes we are strongly encouraged to shoot for 5 - 8 minutes. As one of my homiletics professors told us, a bad 3 minute homily can seem an eternity while an excellent homily at 20 minutes might seem to end too soon… right before telling us don’t expect to write excellent homilies most times so keep it to 5 minutes
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Jesus in the Tabernacle should never be the focus in Mass. Jesus is in the assembly and in the consecrated bread and wine. He is dwelling among us.
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MichelleGeorge
Guest
Overall I prefer the Ordinary form… but I’d ban anyone from trying to grab my hand during the Our Father. And quit changing the music just when I finally learned the current pieces. And maybe play the organ some (we have one collecting dust behind the piano).
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MichelleGeorge
Guest
At my church, the priest faces NNE and we’re in a semi-circle so we face E, SE, S, SW…
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MichelleGeorge
Guest
I’m former Anglican, will likely return. Been to Episcopal churches that were all organ, Bach and John Rutter… Been to churches that were all guitars and U2… Runs the gamut.
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MockSock
Guest
The music at my old parish was beautiful. There was an orchestra but - more often just organ - and a good polyphonic choir. They sang music from Rutter, Lauridsen, Durufle, Palestrina as well as regular plainchant. They also led congregational hymn singing.
They celebrated the OF in Latin mostly and ad orientem mostly. They only used Eucharistic Prayer I. And they always wore decent vestments.
Where I am now they just sing hymns in the congregation, there is no choir to speak of. I have yet to hear an organ.
They celebrated the OF in Latin mostly and ad orientem mostly. They only used Eucharistic Prayer I. And they always wore decent vestments.
Where I am now they just sing hymns in the congregation, there is no choir to speak of. I have yet to hear an organ.
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Peeps
Guest
Do you know why the organ is not played in your parish?
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Peeps
Guest
Same question–do you know why the organ is not played in your parish?
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TheOldColonel
Guest
I would move the Sign of Peace to the introductory rites, omit the Penitential Act and leave 20 minutes after the homily for fellowship and prayer in small groups. There would also be way more music and soft organ music behind the homily for dramatic effect. At the end, there would also be time for people to go up to the ambo and share how they recently experienced God in the past week. Then, it would be off to the Parish Center for pie and more socializing.
…o wait… That’s the list of things I wouldn’t do.
…o wait… That’s the list of things I wouldn’t do.
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Roguish
Guest
Eliminate the sign of peace. Enforce dress code. Outlaw use of personal electronic devices during mass. Outlaw chit-chat inside the main worship area. Seat men and women apart. With these and your changes in place, the Mass would be a heck of lot more reverential.
Main problem with the OF as it is practised now is that the “spirit of worship” is not properly maintained, because incongruent elements during mass take one out of that spirit even when it has succesfully been established, which is rare to begin with. All of your points are examples of this.
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MockSock
Guest
No. Maybe they don’t have one. Maybe its been removed (the church recently underwent renovation).
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MichelleGeorge
Guest
No… though admittedly the general personality of this parish doesn’t exactly lend itself to organ music.
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Peeps
Guest
Seat men and women apart?
Which ones get to take care of the children?
Seriously, this is a terrible idea and IMO, demonstrates a misunderstanding of God’s Creation. God’s plan is for most of us to be married, and most of us have children. Children need desperately to see Mom and Dad sitting together, worshiping the Lord in the beauty of holiness. TEENAGERS need to see this, too, and “practice” doing it with girlfriend and boyfriends as they grow up. They will make a lot of mistakes (I know my husband and I were sometimes a little “too cuddly” in the pews!). .
Marriage is the “image” of Christ and His Bride, the Church. To separate man and woman is to mar this image. It does not create a more reverent atmosphere because it’s not God’s plan.
Which ones get to take care of the children?
Seriously, this is a terrible idea and IMO, demonstrates a misunderstanding of God’s Creation. God’s plan is for most of us to be married, and most of us have children. Children need desperately to see Mom and Dad sitting together, worshiping the Lord in the beauty of holiness. TEENAGERS need to see this, too, and “practice” doing it with girlfriend and boyfriends as they grow up. They will make a lot of mistakes (I know my husband and I were sometimes a little “too cuddly” in the pews!). .
Marriage is the “image” of Christ and His Bride, the Church. To separate man and woman is to mar this image. It does not create a more reverent atmosphere because it’s not God’s plan.
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Peeps
Guest
It’s certainly possible that the organ has been removed, or more likely, has fallen into such a state of repair that it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to repair it.
If you are looking for a good cause to donate your money to, consider donating the cost of the organ repairs to your parish.
And then consider donating the cost of hiring an organist–if you can find one. If you live in or near a large college that offers an organ major, you will probably be able to hire someone, assuming that you are willing to pay what the other churches in your city are paying.
I play organ at several parishes in my city, and even though they sing contemporary songs (which I play on the piano, not the organ), they also sing traditional songs (which I play on the organ). I’ve not heard any criticism of organ music; just the opposite–people tell me they love hearing it played. And…they also tell me that they love my piano playing, too.
I think the same thing would probably happen at your parish–if you had the organ repaired (or donated the money to purchase a new one if yours was removed), and you hired a competent organist who knows how to set appropriate registration to achieve the colors they want for each hymn–your parish would probably be pleased, not critical.
So think about it! It’s only money, right? What an investment for your parish!
If you are looking for a good cause to donate your money to, consider donating the cost of the organ repairs to your parish.
And then consider donating the cost of hiring an organist–if you can find one. If you live in or near a large college that offers an organ major, you will probably be able to hire someone, assuming that you are willing to pay what the other churches in your city are paying.
I play organ at several parishes in my city, and even though they sing contemporary songs (which I play on the piano, not the organ), they also sing traditional songs (which I play on the organ). I’ve not heard any criticism of organ music; just the opposite–people tell me they love hearing it played. And…they also tell me that they love my piano playing, too.
I think the same thing would probably happen at your parish–if you had the organ repaired (or donated the money to purchase a new one if yours was removed), and you hired a competent organist who knows how to set appropriate registration to achieve the colors they want for each hymn–your parish would probably be pleased, not critical.
So think about it! It’s only money, right? What an investment for your parish!
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Peeps
Guest
Please see my post to Mocksock.
I am willing to hazard a guess that your parish “personality” is much more complex than you think.
IF your parish has a good organ and hires a competent organist who has training and experience in liturgical music, I think you would find that most of the parishioners are pleased.
No one likes listening to a sub-par organ and/or an organist who is not really up-to-date with their playing and registration skills.
I’m guessing that your parish doesn’t have the money to keep the organ in good tune and repair, and to also hire a competent organist. It’s possible that the people aren’t critical of organ music, but they ARE critical of taking money away from the ministries to the poor and other more pressing needs in the parish to pay for an organist when you already have a pianist or guitarist. It is kind of hard to justify cutting funding for the St. Vincent’s program to pay for a good organist.
So as I suggested to Mocksock, perhaps you would consider making the donation to fund the organist’s salary. That way, the parish budget would remain intact.
Please consider it. You’ll be happy, and I honestly think many others in your parish would be happy, too!
I am willing to hazard a guess that your parish “personality” is much more complex than you think.
IF your parish has a good organ and hires a competent organist who has training and experience in liturgical music, I think you would find that most of the parishioners are pleased.
No one likes listening to a sub-par organ and/or an organist who is not really up-to-date with their playing and registration skills.
I’m guessing that your parish doesn’t have the money to keep the organ in good tune and repair, and to also hire a competent organist. It’s possible that the people aren’t critical of organ music, but they ARE critical of taking money away from the ministries to the poor and other more pressing needs in the parish to pay for an organist when you already have a pianist or guitarist. It is kind of hard to justify cutting funding for the St. Vincent’s program to pay for a good organist.
So as I suggested to Mocksock, perhaps you would consider making the donation to fund the organist’s salary. That way, the parish budget would remain intact.
Please consider it. You’ll be happy, and I honestly think many others in your parish would be happy, too!
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MichelleGeorge
Guest
ah well … I probably know my parish personality better than you think, seeing as how I was there for quite a few years … now, if you read the first post I made in this convo, I also said I was likely to return to Anglicanism, so the chances of me to donating to fund a non-existent organist is pretty much nil. 
Cheers.
Cheers.- Status