"If you died right now, are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven? (St. Paul wasn't)

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Paul also said, “Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.”

Did he doubt God’s promise? No. But God’s promise wasn’t, “I’ll save you even if you turn away from me and never repent.”

That is a selfish distortion of salvation. I say selfish because it tries to make salvation out to be available to me even if I don’t follow Christ, don’t take up my cross, don’t be like the Good Samaritan, don’t do the will of His Father, don’t do all the things that Christ said are necessary for us to be saved.

So, I’m assured Christ did enough and does enough. I’m not assured I can never turn away from Him.

BTW that perspective makes me more appreciative of Christ and more dependent on him from day to day. Think about it.

Peace.
John
 
Too often, Lutherans have made it sound as if you can have absolute assurance that you will be saved. But they will admit that, due to the fallen nature of the human intellect and our capacity for self-deception (not to mention the possibility of falling from grace, which Lutherans acknowledge), you cannot have infallible certitude regarding salvation.

** Too often Catholics have made it sound as if it is not possible to have any assurance of salvation. This is based on a misreading of the Council of Trent**. The council stated only that one cannot “know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error” (DJ 9; emphasis added) and that one cannot know “with an absolute and *infallible *certainty, [that he will] have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation” (DJ, can. 16; emphasis added).

So the two sides are really in agreement-assurance is possible, but not *infallible *assurance (barring special revelation).

Jimmy Akin, “Justification: Setting the Record Straight”
Emphasis Added
​
 
Sure. That is something I am trusting Christ for and Jesus doesn’t fail.

I would hate to be in a religion where at least in present tense my eternal destiny is not a settled issuje.
 
Paul also said, “Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.”
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Did he doubt God’s promise? No. But God’s promise wasn’t, “I’ll save you even if you turn away from me and never repent.”
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That is a selfish distortion of salvation. I say selfish because it tries to make salvation out to be available to me even if I don’t follow Christ, don’t take up my cross, don’t be like the Good Samaritan, don’t do the will of His Father, don’t do all the things that Christ said are necessary for us to be saved.
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So, I’m assured Christ did enough and does enough. I’m not assured I can never turn away from Him.
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BTW that perspective makes me more appreciative of Christ and more dependent on him from day to day. Think about it.
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Peace.
John
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If someone gave you a million dollars and gave you the freedom to spend it as you like, is similar to salvation being granted you.
You can either spend it doing good or for evil.

The point, is that you have it, now you can work it out, meaning, do good with what was given you so that your life will have meaning and also to carrying out the commandments Love God and neighbor with the power of the Holy Spirit in you doth signify.

Peace>>>AJ
 
I think we can all agree that this man at one point would have answered an emphatic YES!. But what about now? While we cannot judge with certainty, can we agree that his salvation is not as “in the bag” as he once thought it to be?

And if he ends up not being saved, will anybody here chalk it up to God not keeping his promises?
 
VociMike said:
I think we can all agree that this man at one point would have answered an emphatic YES!. But what about now? While we cannot judge with certainty, can we agree that his salvation is not as “in the bag” as he once thought it to be?

And if he ends up not being saved, will anybody here chalk it up to God not keeping his promises?
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The point is that you can judge with certainty, if you can understand the mission of Christ.

Looking at His mission and as what God’s intentions were, you will see a picture of a loving Father demonstrated in Jesus.

Peace>>>AJ
 
water said:
Little note:
The closer one is to God, the more he sees himself a sinner.
The further one is from God, the more he thinks he is a living saint.

The sinner will beg for God’s mercy while the saint thinks he is already in Heaven.
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Well said. 😉
 
Nothing is more dangerous to religion than certainty, IMO. A general rule of thumb for me is that if I am 100% sure of something, I better re-examine it again.
 
Valke2 said:
Nothing is more dangerous to religion than certainty, IMO. A general rule of thumb for me is that if I am 100% sure of something, I better re-examine it again.
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A promise is a promise, especially if it is God who is doing the promising.

Now as for responsibility, some folks can handle salvation with appreciation, respect, honor and praise, and then there are others, not quite sure for lack of faith in the promise.

Peace>>>AJ
 
look3467 said:
The point is that you can judge with certainty, if you can understand the mission of Christ.

Looking at His mission and as what God’s intentions were, you will see a picture of a loving Father demonstrated in Jesus.
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But don’t you think that former-preacher-turned-atheist thought at one time that he judged with certainty?
 
VociMike said:
But don’t you think that former-preacher-turned-atheist thought at one time that he judged with certainty?
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Everybody has o pay for their own sins, meaning that each one of us can judge for ourselves what is certain or what is not.

How I understand it as written in the bible, and what God did in Jesus, I deduct my certainty.

Now, the good news is, of which the world can not understand, is how could God save an unrighteous person and the righteous person alike.

The preacher turned atheist looses only the fellowship with God and is left to world for comfort.

We both know, that this world comforts no one.

Peace>>>AJ
 
look3467 said:
Everybody has o pay for their own sins, meaning that each one of us can judge for ourselves what is certain or what is not.

How I understand it as written in the bible, and what God did in Jesus, I deduct my certainty.

Now, the good news is, of which the world can not understand, is how could God save an unrighteous person and the righteous person alike.

The preacher turned atheist looses only the fellowship with God and is left to world for comfort.

We both know, that this world comforts no one.
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Are you saying the preacher turned atheist will be saved or will not be saved?
 
There is a difference between someone expecting they are saved because of what they do or who they are

and

someone who has been humble by God and knows they are not worthy. I mean really knows. .

I am not worthy. I desperately need Jesus. I am so dependent on God for everything.

I am 100% sure that I can trust God to do what I cannot.
 
VociMike said:
Are you saying the preacher turned atheist will be saved or will not be saved?
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Will be saved! Why and how?
Why, because Jesus paid the price for his souls requirement which was death. Better understood as separation from God which was eternal until Christ died.

How, with the shedding of blood which brought life to the body in the first place.
Notice that Jesus had no blood in His new spiritual body?

Peace>>>AJ
 
Ginger2 said:
There is a difference between someone expecting they are saved because of what they do or who they are

and

someone who has been humble by God and knows they are not worthy. I mean really knows. .

I am not worthy. I desperately need Jesus. I am so dependent on God for everything.

I am 100% sure that I can trust God to do what I cannot.
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Ginger, to my knowledge your spiritual end result has already been predestined to salvation.

The difference is in not knowing about it and therefore fearing one may not make it.

So rather than love and appreciation for salvation granted, we strive in fear to think we may not make it.

Peace>>>AJ
 
look3467 said:
Will be saved! Why and how?
Why, because Jesus paid the price for his souls requirement which was death. Better understood as separation from God which was eternal until Christ died.

How, with the shedding of blood which brought life to the body in the first place.
Notice that Jesus had no blood in His new spiritual body?
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So thanks to OSAS a militant atheist, who spends his time trying to get as many people as possible to reject Christ, will assuredly be saved. Do your fellow Protestants know you’re preaching this gospel?
 
look3467 said:
Will be saved! Why and how?
Why, because Jesus paid the price for his souls requirement which was death. Better understood as separation from God which was eternal until Christ died.

How, with the shedding of blood which brought life to the body in the first place.
Notice that Jesus had no blood in His new spiritual body?

Peace>>>AJ
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How can you possibly know this man will be saved? You don’t. You are not God. You can “think” he is, but you don’t “know” for sure. This makes no sense at all. If everyone is saved then why bother to live a Christian life?
 
VociMike said:
So thanks to OSAS a militant atheist, who spends his time trying to get as many people as possible to reject Christ, will assuredly be saved. Do your fellow Protestants know you’re preaching this gospel?
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As many as follow a doctrine that leads to dis-fellowship with God will only reap to themselves consequences of Gods direction.

There are two example that come to mind, one, the Prodigal Son, the other the one that was expelled from the congregation for sleeping with his mother per Paul’s instructions.

Both instances,the soul is saved, yet they both suffered the consequences of their sins.

Is God limited to who He can have mercy on without our permission?

Peace>>>AJ
 
AngelsAmongUs said:
How can you possibly know this man will be saved? You don’t. You are not God. You can “think” he is, but you don’t “know” for sure. This makes no sense at all. If everyone is saved then why bother to live a Christian life?
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Well, I happen to understand that Christ died for all mankind.

There is enough evidence in the bible to justify that answer.

Peace>>>AJ
 
Those who believe and fear they might go to hell are either knowingly choosing to reject God or just haven’t a clear understanding, yet - or are hearing a warning from God.

If you are truly destined for heaven you can pray and ask for that assurance.

I think one problem is that many people want to “create” God in their own image instead of submitting and allowing God to transform them.
 
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