"If you died right now, are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven? (St. Paul wasn't)

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Well, I happen to understand that Christ died for all mankind.

There is enough evidence in the bible to justify that answer.

Peace>>>AJ
Please show me all the evidence in the bible that says all will go to heaven when they die and that none will go to hell. :rolleyes:

Because if this is true, then I bet the apostles are really kicking themselves right now that they did all that traveling and teaching about Christ for nothing because we are all destined for heaven no matter what. Not to mention the horrible deaths they suffered because of that teaching. You definitely need to reconsider your position here. You are dangerously wrong.
 
Will be saved! Why and how?
Why, because Jesus paid the price for his souls requirement which was death. Better understood as separation from God which was eternal until Christ died.

How, with the shedding of blood which brought life to the body in the first place.
Notice that Jesus had no blood in His new spiritual body?

Peace>>>AJ
Matthew 24
***13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. ***
Do you really believe a man that denies God is “standing firm to the end”? 😉

According to Jesus, we CAN lose our salvation by our own choices (free will). 😦
 
Matthew 24
***13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. ***
Do you really believe a man that denies God is “standing firm to the end”? 😉

According to Jesus, we CAN lose our salvation by our own choices (free will). 😦
Before I answer AngelsAmongUs post let me answer Delraek’s post.

Standing firm to the end was Jesus.
Consider the story of Job as a picture of Jesus.

Between God and the world, the question was: If I take away everything from you and tempt you with the riches of the world, strip away your friends by total rejection, plague you with boils to where you can not stand it any more, will you still love me?

The answer: JOB 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Translation: “Not my will but thine”.

That is Jesus unfulfilled yet vile, what shall He answer God?
The women a picture of the foolish world that say: only good comes from God and not evil.
Note: Is that not the same thought today, or similar which says, how can God save an unrighteous evil doer as like one who tires to live righteously?

JOB 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

What the picture story of Job depicts is Jesus’ challenge to gain the whole world by losing His soul.

By Jesus not repenting from the glory that is God’s, chose rather to loose His own soul that the world might be saved.

If Jesus would have repented, or if Job had chosen rather to deny God the glory over his own glory, then Job would not have only have lost the world but his soul also.

He who Dun’s God stands only to his own end(Destruction, earthly only), but Jesus who denied not God but stuck it out to the end, won salvation for the world.

For it was God’s righteousness in Jesus that was given to all mankind.

Amo 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

Think on that for awhile.

Next post is my response for AngelsAmongUs

Peace>>>AJ
 
Please show me all the evidence in the bible that says all will go to heaven when they die and that none will go to hell. :rolleyes:

Because if this is true, then I bet the apostles are really kicking themselves right now that they did all that traveling and teaching about Christ for nothing because we are all destined for heaven no matter what. Not to mention the horrible deaths they suffered because of that teaching. You definitely need to reconsider your position here. You are dangerously wrong.
First lets determine whose responsibility it is for the salvation of mankind.
Salvation from what?
Had we had a hand in our own spiritual death, yes, we should be held accountable, but as it is, God is responsible for our separation from Him when He created the first parents in the flesh.

This verse attests to that view: Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
That being the case then, God provides salvation to mankind in bodily form, Jesus.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
That body for sacrifice was Jesus.

And Gods words: Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The condition is now set by Jesus’ sacrifice, that whosoever believed shall be saved is a present tense condition.

Meaning, that everlasting life can start right now and having to wait for death to achieve that goal.

Read: Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Who shall bow? All? And who has control over his own soul, but Jesus?

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

All 3 places included of which none are left out.

These are just a few, but if you study the bible looking for the love of God to wards His creatures, you will find that God is greater than what we supposed.

Peace>>>AJ
 
Before I answer AngelsAmongUs post let me answer Delraek’s post.

Standing firm to the end was Jesus.
Consider the story of Job as a picture of Jesus.

Between God and the world, the question was: If I take away everything from you and tempt you with the riches of the world, strip away your friends by total rejection, plague you with boils to where you can not stand it any more, will you still love me?

The answer: JOB 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Translation: “Not my will but thine”.

That is Jesus unfulfilled yet vile, what shall He answer God?
The women a picture of the foolish world that say: only good comes from God and not evil.
Note: Is that not the same thought today, or similar which says, how can God save an unrighteous evil doer as like one who tires to live righteously?

JOB 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

What the picture story of Job depicts is Jesus’ challenge to gain the whole world by losing His soul.

By Jesus not repenting from the glory that is God’s, chose rather to loose His own soul that the world might be saved.

If Jesus would have repented, or if Job had chosen rather to deny God the glory over his own glory, then Job would not have only have lost the world but his soul also.

He who Dun’s God stands only to his own end(Destruction, earthly only), but Jesus who denied not God but stuck it out to the end, won salvation for the world.

For it was God’s righteousness in Jesus that was given to all mankind.

Amo 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

Think on that for awhile.

Next post is my response for AngelsAmongUs

Peace>>>AJ
That quote from Mt 24:13 is FROM Jesus TO us! Jesus redeemed us by dying on the cross and rising from the dead, but it’s up to us to take up our cross and follow Him if we want to spend eternity with Him.
 
That quote from Mt 24:13 is FROM Jesus TO us! Jesus redeemed us by dying on the cross and rising from the dead, but it’s up to us to take up our cross and follow Him if we want to spend eternity with Him.
Yes, it can apply to us as an example of following Jesus, but to say that salvation is not of Jesus but of our own merits, is to deny Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins.

Thw whole object of Jesus’ cooming was to take away the sins of the world of which only God could do, and Jesus the day of His death was as God delevering humanity souls back to God.

Peace>>>AJ
 
The Narrow Gate Mat (7:13-14)

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.” “How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.”

This one scripture alone proves that not “all” go to heaven. And you are taking all those verses out of context to fit into your own beliefs. Rom 8:20 for example is talking about “Christians/believers.” It is basically talking about the glory believers are destined to share with Christ far exceeds the sufferings of the present life.

And you said it yourself…whosoever believes in Jesus shall be saved (which isn’t the only thing that will save you) but it demonstrates we have to DO something which is BELIEVE. The atheist example from an earlier post is not a “believer.” Now, he may have a deathbed conversion but if he refuses to accept Jesus then he is exercising his free will and refuses to be saved.

I think you have a lot more reading to do. You cannot reject Jesus and still expect to be saved. It just doesn’t work that way.
 
The Narrow Gate Mat (7:13-14)

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many." “How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.”

This one scripture alone proves that not “all” go to heaven. And you are taking all those verses out of context to fit into your own beliefs. Rom 8:20 for example is talking about “Christians/believers.” It is basically talking about the glory believers are destined to share with Christ far exceeds the sufferings of the present life.

And you said it yourself…whosoever believes in Jesus shall be saved (which isn’t the only thing that will save you) but it demonstrates we have to DO something which is BELIEVE. The atheist example from an earlier post is not a “believer.” Now, he may have a deathbed conversion but if he refuses to accept Jesus then he is exercising his free will and refuses to be saved.

I think you have a lot more reading to do. You cannot reject Jesus and still expect to be saved. It just doesn’t work that way.
You suppose that in your generation the whole world will believe in Christ?
Of course not, but a few will.

Now, to understand the “whosoever believes in Jesus” are those who have entered through the narrow gate and found salvation, while the others are as lost, for they have not found it yet.

But that is not to say that God in Jesus did not pay for their souls as well.

Fortunate for you and I that we have found it in the straight an narrow path, so God wants us not to swell with pride because of it, but to help our brothers and sisters struggling to find is with compassion.

Peace>>>AJ
 
I think you have a lot more reading to do. You cannot reject Jesus and still expect to be saved. It just doesn’t work that way.>>>Engrossments
Did the High priest reject Christ? Were the Romans soldiers a party to them?
Did not Peter deny Christ 3 times? Did not all His Apostles scatter when Jesus was arrested?
And did not Christ say: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?

If you understood the part the Jewish people played, you might understand that statement of Jesus, for God had purposely blinded them to Jesus, making them innocent of what they were doing.
Jesus was given only to know what was needed for the accomplishment of His mission, that’s why He said what He did.

There is dept to the scriptures you know.

Peace>>>AJ
 
You suppose that in your generation the whole world will believe in Christ?
Of course not, but a few will.

Now, to understand the “whosoever believes in Jesus” are those who have entered through the narrow gate and found salvation, while the others are as lost, for they have not found it yet.

But that is not to say that God in Jesus did not pay for their souls as well.

Fortunate for you and I that we have found it in the straight an narrow path, so God wants us not to swell with pride because of it, but to help our brothers and sisters struggling to find is with compassion.
Why help anybody find anything? According to you “all” go to heaven whether they believe or not, or have faith or not, or keep the commandments or not, etc.

Yes, Peter denied Christ 3 times, but what did Peter do after the resurrection? Peter dedicated his life to Christ by obeying Him and much much more and died doing it. And John was at the foot of the cross of Jesus. Come on…don’t talk as though “I” don’t understand. You obviously have your own interpretation of the scriptures, but it is just that…your interpretation. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.
 
Why help anybody find anything? According to you “all” go to heaven whether they believe or not, or have faith or not, or keep the commandments or not, etc.

The common answer to that is as you spoke it.
But do you realize that to know Christ, have ing fellowship with Him and enjoying all the benefits of Hi kingdom here on earth is meant to be shared with those who are going through hell with knowledge of the love of God?

The motive to share Christ is out of love, not duty!
If it is of duty, then your answer is understandable.

If it is of love, then, selfishness has no place in our reaching out to the lost world out of love more so that duty.

Yes, God has predestined all to be saved, but not many know it.
You do and I do know it.

And I don’r have a bit of a problem having to agree to disagree, for in my eyes, God still loves, regardless of who it is.

When there is no opposition, what can we learn to compare the goodness of God with?

Peace>>>AJ
 
I think that we sometimes tend to forget that the authors of the bible WERE human. They, like the rest of us, certainly don’t know the Heart and Mind of God so I can totally see why Paul would say what he says. He is writing from his own account. Being human he shows his vulnerability in the verse in the OP and I commend him for it. He could put on ‘airs’ to those that he is writing to because they trust him. He could have gotten a big head and told them that he was totally sure that he was going to be in Heaven with Christ. But he was truthful, as a human he was (as we are) not sure. But Christ did promise us many times that we would make it to paradise if we followed the guidelines given to us.

Faith takes work. You can’t just sit back and expect that if you cry out CHRIST you will get there. Your Faith in God is evident by what you do. And since we know that we don’t worship a lazy god we can be sure that He expects us to work those Faith muscles for Him. 👍
 
Why help anybody find anything? According to you “all” go to heaven whether they believe or not, or have faith or not, or keep the commandments or not, etc.

The common answer to that is as you spoke it.
But do you realize that to know Christ, have ing fellowship with Him and enjoying all the benefits of Hi kingdom here on earth is meant to be shared with those who are going through hell with knowledge of the love of God?

The motive to share Christ is out of love, not duty!
If it is of duty, then your answer is understandable.

If it is of love, then, selfishness has no place in our reaching out to the lost world out of love more so that duty.

Yes, God has predestined all to be saved, but not many know it.
You do and I do know it.

And I don’r have a bit of a problem having to agree to disagree, for in my eyes, God still loves, regardless of who it is.

When there is no opposition, what can we learn to compare the goodness of God with?

Peace>>>AJ
I know and understand that God loves everyone…every single sinner. But not everyone will love him back. Contrary to what you believe you do have to accept that love and go forth with it. There are certain things we as Christians have to do. We can’t just sit around on our behinds and say “eh whatever, I’m saved no matter what I do.” If that were the case the apostles would have stayed home in the comfort of their homes and not risked life and limb to teach the word of the Lord. What you are saying contradicts scripture. And quite frankly I feel you are downplaying the courageous and exhausting efforts of the apostles to the point of complete disrespect and utter lack of appreciation for the work they put forth so all who believes and obeys in the Lord will be saved. If we believe what you believe they just wasted their time. Sorry, but I don’t believe that. They did what they did in hopes that all will be saved, not because we were already saved.

Mat 7:21 says, " Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

I do believe you are dangerously wrong with your beliefs and I urge you to re-think your position once more, but that’s all I’ll say about it. You seem like a very nice person and I appreciate your politeness and I wish you well.
 
I gotta agree with Angels that this all is important–for an understanding of God’s love and what he’s doing for us, and what he expects (or doesn’t) from us. Christ is Truth, so the better we understand what truly IS, the closer we are to Him.

Our answer to this thread’s question must in no way make nonsense out of Christ’s direct answer to the question, “What must I do to be saved?”

He answers that question directly. Be like the Good Samaritan, keep the commandments…and some will be saved (sheep), for they fed me, clothed me, etc. and some will NOT(goats) for they did not feed me, clothe me.

If one answers the thread with, I’m saved by believing and can never lose it because God did it ALL, that is a failure to appreciate HOW MUCH God really did, and does.

He not only died for our sins, he gives us the ability to LOVE with a saving love. Don’t say that this can’t be true because it would mean we’re saving ourselves; understand that this ability to love is given to us. We can cooperate and love or not cooperate–and even that ability to say “yes” or not, comes from God. BUT HE MAKES IT OURS.

So if you don’t believe the idea that we must love in order to be saved, fine, but please don’t give the objection, “Because Christ did it all,” for that is the Catholic understanding as well, and it doesn’t explain at all why everyone should believe that they can never lose their salvation or choose to join the goats instead of the sheep.

Peace
John
 
I do believe you are dangerously wrong with your beliefs and I urge you to re-think your position once more, but that’s all I’ll say about it. You seem like a very nice person and I appreciate your politeness and I wish you well.>>>AngelsAmongUs

I understand fully you’als position on this forum.
I mean not to distort, or to complicate anything about Gods love to wards us.
But if I come here and raise a few objectionable views, then you must try to refute them based according to your standard beliefs.
But what is more important, I think, is that in our dissuasions, people will see your side, my side and determine for themselves what they want to believe.
That is where learning comes in when there are two opposing views.
My current belief is that God has predestined all to go to heaven, so I have no problem with anybodies belief in any religion.

What I seek to do is to share Christ, His love for us, and how we can all be one in the Spirit of Him.

We can all be different, yet united in Christ in the sense that we can have love one for another.

If any of this that I have said is against God, then I will be happy to leave this forum and venture on.

I believe I can incite many to look at God with a greater desire to know Him by studying the word with intensity.

Like I said, I am totally secure in my view that I am saved. Being so, I fear no outsiders, their beliefs or teachings, because none of them will affect me in any way shape or form.

Jesus is my foundation and my soul is solidly anchored to that foundation, of which I am sealed with the Holy Spirit, (As per the word) and have no fear of ever losing my salvation.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Past tense as if already happened?

Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

“Labour not” for the good deeds of righteousness, for labour for that meat that is righteousness which the Father hath sealed as yours.

Have you found your rest? Rest from all your labors?

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If you have rest in Jesus, wherefore do ye labor as if you had no rest?

Because I rest in the labor of Jesus does not mean I sit back and enjoy my freebie, what it means is that I appreciate Him more for rescuing me from the pangs of eternal separation, and will strive to live right and in good standing with Him.

Peace>>>AJ
 
Look3467…Can you show me where in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone?" The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “Faith Alone” appears, is in James…James 2:24, where it says that we are not…not…justified (or saved) by faith alone. So, one of the two main pillars of Protestantism…the doctrine of salvation by faith alone…not only doesn’t appear in the Bible, but the Bible actually says the exact opposite - that we are not saved by faith alone.

How come every passage in the N.T. that I know of that talks about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone? We see this in Rom 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Ptr 1, Rev 20 and 22, 2 Cor 5, and many, many more verses.

If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Cor 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace.

Sounds like you believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of faith and works is necessary…or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love…faith working through love…just as the Church teaches.
 
Look3467…Can you show me where in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone?" The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “Faith Alone” appears, is in James…James 2:24, where it says that we are not…not…justified (or saved) by faith alone. So, one of the two main pillars of Protestantism…the doctrine of salvation by faith alone…not only doesn’t appear in the Bible, but the Bible actually says the exact opposite - that we are not saved by faith alone.>>>Lampo
First of all, we’d have to determine why Jesus died for our sins based on Old Testament prophecy.
When we determine that, then we can use the New Testament as like a workbook by where we work out that salvation prophesied in the Old Testament concerning the coming Messiahs work of salvation.
Because only God is righteous and none of us could ever be, that only He is the one that can deliver us from the lost estate condition.

St Paul was a man who had revelation way beyond the ability for anyone to comprehend, therefore had to struggle to simplify the message to where the people of that day could understand the message.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Very simple steps for the babes in Christ, but to each there is a responsibility to further educate self in dept if one wishes, in the word of God.
How come every passage in the N.T. that I know of that talks about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone? We see this in Rom 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Ptr 1, Rev 20 and 22, 2 Cor 5, and many, many more verses.>>>Lampo
If I gave you a million dollars, you’d be rich, right? Now what you do with that can be useful to help others and to live the best way you can in honor of the one who gave you that gift.
That is good works.
The opposite is also true in that you can use it selfishly, help no one and live like the devil, that is evil works.
Well, God will see to it that you will be rewarded for the good works as well as for your evil works while you still have life in you.

What Jesus came to do is grant us Gods righteousness by Him paying the price for our eternal separation, of which none of us could ever hope to do no matter how many good works we’d do.

Only God can be credited with good works as Jesus said: “Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”

Why? Because God would have no other besides Him that is good, therefore, He is the only good there is.
But, don’t despair, for in Jesus and Jesus in you will produce Godly good to His glory and honor and not to our own.
If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Cor 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?>>>Lampo
The key word is “Now”, meaning after Jesus’ sacrifice. The greater of all of them is love, for God is love.
As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace.>>>Lampo
You are absolutely correct!
The gift is there ready to be received to as many as would have it. Once upon getting it, then it is up to the individual to work it out, meaning, to use it wisely and helpfully towards our neighbors who have not yet discovered it.

But it is there for them to, to receive, but if they don’t in this life time, at death they will bow at His feet and will instantly recognize Him and be saved.

The works that you do here are accountable only to you while you live, because after this, there is no more work.
Sounds like you believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of faith and works is necessary…or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love…faith working through love…just as the Church>>>Lampo
I can relate to that since I was a Catholic in my younger years and a good one I thought.
As a matter of fact, the religion part of the curriculum was my favorite.

To produce good works for your self is to live righteously as you can,
To produce Godly works, only God in Jesus through the Holy Spirit in you can produce Good works of which are worthy of honor by God.

For the bible says our works are as filthy rags.

Peace>>>AJ
 
The gift is there ready to be received to as many as would have it. Once upon getting it, then it is up to the individual to work it out, meaning, to use it wisely and helpfully towards our neighbors who have not yet discovered it.
But if the person doesn’t use it wisely, rejects God’s grace, violates all Ten Commandments up until his death without repentance, it really doesn’t matter in the end because he is saved anyway, right? Does that really make sense to you?

Question: Not that I am suggesting anyone do this, but how do you view suicide? I mean, if there is nothing you can do to derail your “Heaven Train”, why not commit suicide and be with Him in Paradise forever right now?
 
Failure to do good works is not a failure to earn one’s salvation, but a rejection of grace which is ultimately a denial of the power of the Holy Spirit, and that is the “unforgivable sin” (Mark 3:28). It is unforgivable because it is a rejection of Christ. Good works are not something in addition to faith, but the proof that faith exists. The good works in question do not constitute “works salvation” because they were not produced by something within the individual but were in fact accomplished by the grace of God, which is a gift. There is nothing to boast about but much to be thankful for.

The reason why you can lose your salvation is because even after accepting Christ as your “personal Lord and Savior”, a person is still capable of sinning and remaining unrepentant. And repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Scripture is very clear on this point. Listen to Paul’s warning to the Church at Rome: “Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance?” (Romans 2:4). Jesus Himself warns the Church at Ephesus. He says: "Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, unless you repent (Revelation 2:5).

The early Christians agreed with this teaching as we can see from such writings as the epistle of Barnabas, written around the year 130. In chapter four we read, “So no assumption that we are among the called must ever tempt us to relax our efforts, or fall asleep in our sins, otherwise the prince of evil will obtain control over us, and oust us from the kingdom of the Lord.”

When we give our lives to Jesus our free will is not taken away. We do not become robots compelled to feed the poor or avoid sin. We must submit to Christ on a daily basis. As the Scripture says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God” (James 4:6-7).

If the Catholic Church’s teaching on justification is wrong, then so is the Bible and so were the early Christians.
 
Yes I am confident that if I died today I will be in heaven because I believe God to keep His promises.

I have faith that what I read in the Word of God is true and I have hope and love.😃 :dancing: :extrahappy: :love:

AMEN LORD !!!
 
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