If you do Not believe that Blessed Mary is the Mother of God, than who do you believe Jesus Christ is?

[GreggAlvarez]

I’m not smart enough to understand how Jesus is God and Man. I just know He is.

Time for me to move on from this topic for today. In the past I’ve gotten concumed with threads. I don’t want this to concume my mind any more. Maybe I’ll pick this up tomorrow.

God bless all.

It certainly is a mystery. Nobody is smart enough to understand how. We just accept some things through the eyes of faith. Sometimes, there is no choice.

Nobody is being iconoclastic towards your beliefs. If they are, then shame on them, but I see no concumation here.

God bless you too.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I know this has probably already been said (haven’t had time to look at all 11 pages) so forgive me if it is already stated…

The term ‘Mother of God’ does make me nervous as someone stated on the first page this appears to give Mary the role of being the source of Christ’s divinity - I would argue that the term ‘Mother of God Incarnate’ is more appropriate. To me at least, it is better understood as to what Mary’s role is. She did not create God as He existed LONG before she did but she did provide the way for Christ to come to human form here on earth. She holds more of a role than merely a vessel but she did not create God and I think that is where the hang-up comes…

 

[PRmerger]

I know this has probably already been said (haven’t had time to look at all 11 pages) so forgive me if it is already stated…

The term ‘Mother of God’ does make me nervous as someone stated on the first page this appears to give Mary the role of being the source of Christ’s divinity - I would argue that the term ‘Mother of God Incarnate’ is more appropriate. To me at least, it is better understood as to what Mary’s role is. She did not create God as He existed LONG before she did but she did provide the way for Christ to come to human form here on earth. She holds more of a role than merely a vessel but she did not create God and I think that is where the hang-up comes…

I understand your hesitancy, but Catholics ought not change their beautiful title for Mary because others misinterpret what it means.

Just like Muslims have a very hard time with understanding the concept of the Trinity. Saying there are 3 persons in One God makes them nervous. They’d prefer it if every time we said “Trinity” we said, “3 persons, but, ONE God.”

I don’t think Christians should change our nomenclature for Muslims, and I don’t think Catholics should change our nomenclature for non-Catholics either.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I understand your hesitancy, but Catholics ought not change their beautiful title for Mary because others misinterpret what it means.

Just like Muslims have a very hard time with understanding the concept of the Trinity. Saying there are 3 persons in One God makes them nervous. They’d prefer it if every time we said “Trinity” we said, “3 persons, but, ONE God.”

I don’t think Christians should change our nomenclature for Muslims, and I don’t think Catholics should change our nomenclature for non-Catholics either.

Looking around Where did I say it should be changed? The question was why that term was not adopted by others and I was merely explaining why I don’t particularily like the wording of the term. But no where was I suggesting it be changed - I get the reasoning and meaning behind it but it still doesn’t make me less nervous…

 

[benedictus2]

I know this has probably already been said (haven’t had time to look at all 11 pages) so forgive me if it is already stated…

The term ‘Mother of God’ does make me nervous as someone stated on the first page this appears to give Mary the role of being the source of Christ’s divinity - I would argue that the term ‘Mother of God Incarnate’ is more appropriate. To me at least, it is better understood as to what Mary’s role is. She did not create God as He existed LONG before she did but she did provide the way for Christ to come to human form here on earth. She holds more of a role than merely a vessel but she did not create God and I think that is where the hang-up comes…

I get what you mean. But God Incarnate is … God .

I think what needs to be done more than anything is to have a deeper appreciation of Mary and the way God took to redeem the world.

When we come to a deeper understanding of this mystery then all the unease of with the term Mother of God will disappear. For it is truly God that Mary bore in her womb. The God who so very much wants to be united to us, that He chose to become like us through Mary.

 

[elvisman]

I believe ‘lord’ is a term given to rulers, people of high authority.

John, in Elizabeth, no doubt knew Jesus was special. Jesus said John was Elijah, who never died. If John is who Jesus said he was, God, somehow put Elijah into the womb of Elizabeth.

Doki - would you care to respond to Post #356 where I laid all of this our for you?

**I gave the Greek as well as the Aramaic for this verse, yet you persist with your comments as if though the evidence was never laid before you.
Please respond . . .

 

[benedictus2]

We don’t know the DNA of Jesus. We don’t know if God used Mary’s ovum. Is it possible that God took an ovum from Eve and a sperm from Adam before the fall and preserved it about 4000 yrs? The zygote from them would have had no sin nature.

Are you serious? Where is that in the Bible?

I can’t believe I’d be saying that to a Protestant

 

[benedictus2]

I think I’ve made it clear that I believe Jesus is God. Mary carried Jesus and gave birth to Him.

My question was when Elizabeth used the phrase “mother of my Lord”, was the word “Lord” referring to God or not?

 

[Irish_Polock]

I know this has probably already been said (haven’t had time to look at all 11 pages) so forgive me if it is already stated…

The term ‘Mother of God’ does make me nervous as someone stated on the first page this appears to give Mary the role of being the source of Christ’s divinity - I would argue that the term ‘Mother of God Incarnate’ is more appropriate. To me at least, it is better understood as to what Mary’s role is. She did not create God as He existed LONG before she did but she did provide the way for Christ to come to human form here on earth. She holds more of a role than merely a vessel but she did not create God and I think that is where the hang-up comes…

I would argue that the title for our Lady as “Mother of God” describes Jesus and His role within the Godhead perfectly.

 

[Cinette]

I believe ‘lord’ is a term given to rulers, people of high authority.

John, in Elizabeth, no doubt knew Jesus was special. Jesus said John was Elijah, who never died. If John is who Jesus said he was, God, somehow put Elijah into the womb of Elizabeth.

OOOOOOOOO…the plot thickens!!

 

[Cinette]

We don’t know the DNA of Jesus. We don’t know if God used Mary’s ovum. Is it possible that God took an ovum from Eve and a sperm from Adam before the fall and preserved it about 4000 yrs? The zygote from them would have had no sin nature.

OOOOOOOOO…!:whacky::whacky:

 

[Cinette]

We don’t know the DNA of Jesus. We don’t know if God used Mary’s ovum. Is it possible that God took an ovum from Eve and a sperm from Adam before the fall and preserved it about 4000 yrs? The zygote from them would have had no sin nature.

*Dokimas! You are joking aren’t you? I mean are you saying that God has to go through this elaborate procedure to so something he can do in the blink of an eye? Huh? Come on!

This is getting ridiculous!*

 

[elvisman]

OOOOOOOOO…the plot thickens!!

Yes - and if only Doki would reply to post 356, which addresses this very point . . .

 

[lil_flower_luv]

So I guess she was more than a surrogate, a surrogate plus an adoptive parent.

Listen to yourself here, Doki, and try to imagine what Jesus must think of your opinion of His Mother.

“Surrogate” mother if she raised, loved, and cared for Him? (Laughed, cried, and suffered with Him?)
“Adopted” parent if she gave birth to Him by her own womb?

Whether or not you believe she is the Mother of God, your opinion of her seems rather low–a creature God handpicked Himself to be the blessed Mother of our Lord and Savior. No one else on Earth had this privilege.

I’m looking forward to God straightening out my idea…
It may not be til Heaven, though.

Why wait?

Our Lady’s role was not given to her by Catholics, but by God alone. Indeed, no one loves and honors her more than her Son, Jesus.

 

[Cinette]

I think I’ve made it clear that I believe Jesus is God. Mary carried Jesus and gave birth to Him.

*Good - you have said it! Elizabeth was referring to Jesus, God the Son. Mary was the Mother of God the Son so therefore she was the Mother of God.

Thank you. I wish you had been more direct and said it straight away when I first asked the question.

So now we know what you believe.

Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

How do you know?

You should be careful when you answer. IMO, you should not quote a source that claims to be the speaking group for God. That would be kind of circular reasoning, wouldn’t it be?

*You must remember Dokimas that Jesus gave the Church the “deposit of Faith” when he founded his Church on Peter, the Rock. He also said “whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”. Does it not make sense to you that when Jesus founded his Church and instructed the Apostles to go and spread the good news he empowered them and they passed on these powers. That is why the Church has a hierarchy and Apostolic Authority.

We have to preserve the truth. That is why the hierarchy of the Church holds Councils and there are so many scholars who work and pray (this is very important - prayer). There are monasteries with Monks and Convents with contemplative nuns who pray all the time for the Church and for souls. Don’t forget that.

The Church has had to fight heresy from the beginning and she continues to do so. The truth is precious and must be preserved at all cost. I am sure you will appreciate this if you just give it some thought.

God bless
Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

Not true. I did NOT say the other way is impossible with God, did I? I did say that your understanding and my understanding are opinions that may or may not, in whole or in part line up with God’s opinion. God’s opinion is always TRUE, so true is sounds silly to call it His opinion.

*I have never heard anyone talk of God’s opinion!

According to the Oxford Dictionary one of the explanations for opinion is “judgement resting on grounds insufficient for complete demonstration; belief of something as probable or as seeming to one’s own mind to be true.”

God is all knowing - he does not hold an “opinion” - that is for us mortals.

See what I mean?

*

 

[PRmerger]

Looking around Where did I say it should be changed?

My apologies!

The question was why that term was not adopted by others and I was merely explaining why I don’t particularily like the wording of the term. But no where was I suggesting it be changed - I get the reasoning and meaning behind it but it still doesn’t make me less nervous…

Fair enough.

What would you tell a Muslim who says, “I get the reasoning and meaning behind the term* Trinity,* but it still doesn’t make me less nervous. There is ONLY ONE GOD. I argue that the term ‘3 Persons BUT ONE GOD’ is more appropriate than the term* Trinity. * But I’m not saying you need to change it. My suggestion, though is just, well, more appropriate.”

 

[GaryTaylor]

I get what you mean. But God Incarnate is … God .

I think what needs to be done more than anything is to have a deeper appreciation of Mary and the way God took to redeem the world.

When we come to a deeper understanding of this mystery then all the unease of with the term Mother of God will disappear. For it is truly God that Mary bore in her womb. The God who so very much wants to be united to us, that He chose to become like us through Mary.

There it is. A post worth a bump:thumbsup:

 

[Dokimas]

Looking around Where did I say it should be changed? The question was why that term was not adopted by others and I was merely explaining why I don’t particularily like the wording of the term. But no where was I suggesting it be changed - I get the reasoning and meaning behind it but it still doesn’t make me less nervous…

I’m with you. You have put it far better than I could and did it with far less words. Great job.