If you do Not believe that Blessed Mary is the Mother of God, than who do you believe Jesus Christ is?

[PRmerger]

The “Bible Christians” that I know came to repentance and faith through the living Word. The Spirit through the Word testifies of Christ Jesus, Him crucified for the salvation of our souls.

Amen!

The Spirit exalts Christ as King and this they hold onto dearly not wanting anyone or anything to enter into the relationship.

Not wanting anyone or anything to enter into the relationship?

This is a picture of an unhealthy relationship, to be sure.

When I fell in love with my DH, I wanted to know all about him, all about his family, have relationships with his parents, his siblings, his friends. NOT just him.

They are wrong only in the sense desiring to lay attached to the biblical cord of the birthing parent.

They are wrong in stating that Mary is “foreign” to the salvific plan.

 

[Rocket_Man]

When I fell in love with my DH, I wanted to know all about him, all about his family, have relationships with his parents, his siblings, his friends. NOT just him.

Don’t be frightened that they have not come home from the honeymoon. The bridegroom will lead them back to His family in this life or the one to come.

 

[PRmerger]

Don’t be frightened that they have not come home from the honeymoon. The bridegroom will lead them back to His family.

Huh? Who’s on a honeymoon?

 

[Rocket_Man]

Huh? Who’s on a honeymoon?

Listen, when Peter first swung his sword He did not understand His masters plan. Isn’t it recorded somewhere that “He was pierced for our transgressions”. Doesn’t the “our” include Peter also? So when you swing Peter sword handle it with humility and truth knowing that from it drips the same blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Didn’t He also say that He came to seek those are lost? If they are lost and they are found then doesn’t that mean they will be soon retuning? So when they return be sure to recognize the sword your carrying.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Scott Hahn puts it this way. Jesus was an obedient Jew. He would have kept the Ten Commandments of His Father. He would have honured His Mother.

We really are only imitating Jesus in honoring his mother.

In Hebrew the word of honour in the 4th commandment is Koboda which means to glorify. So Jesus glorified Mary and thus it is only fitting that we honour her.

Jesus said: Follow me. So we did… in honouring her.

If there were posted on Facebook, I’d have hit the “LIKE” button

 

[PRmerger]

Listen, when Peter first swung his sword He did not understand His masters plan. Isn’t it recorded somewhere that “He was pierced for our transgressions”. Doesn’t the “our” include Peter also? So when you swing Peter sword handle it with humility and truth knowing that from it drips the same blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Didn’t He also say that He came to seek those are lost? If they are lost and they are found then doesn’t that mean they will be soon retuning? So when they return be sure to recognize the sword your carrying.

I’m going to try and reel this back in.

My response was to your comment here: “The Spirit exalts Christ as King and this they hold onto dearly not wanting anyone or anything to enter into the relationship.”

I stated that this clearly is an unhealthy relationship.

When you are in relationship with someone you naturally want to be with their family.

Mary is God’s family. If you really love Christ, then you’ll want to know Mary.

 

[PRmerger]

Hi

I’ve never heard someone saying that Mary is NOT the mother of God…

I just did a google search. Here’s the results. There’s quite a few Christian folks who are professing that Mary is NOT the mother of God. :sad_yes:

To wit: from a non-Catholic website: (therefore, to be understood that what it professes has divorced itself from the Teachings of Christ.)

Scriptural Proof: Mary is Not the Mother of God

JOHN

SCHROEDER

Contender Ministries

Posted:  November 22, 2003

In the 4th century, when Constantine the Great appointed himself Pontifex Maximus – supreme head – of the Christian Church, pagans and their pagan beliefs began infiltrating Christendom. Among the most influential of the new “converts” were those from the Mediterranean and Middle East areas where worship of the “Great Mother Goddess” and the “Divine Virgin” had existed since Babylon. According to Britannica, these groups:

“….found within the Christian Church a new possibility of expression in the worship of Mary as the virgin mother of God, in whom was achieved the mysterious union of the divine Logos with human nature.” (Britannica, Christianity: The doctrine of the Virgin Mary and holy Wisdom.)

 

[minkymurph]

Listen, when Peter first swung his sword He did not understand His masters plan. Isn’t it recorded somewhere that “He was pierced for our transgressions”. Doesn’t the “our” include Peter also? So when you swing Peter sword handle it with humility and truth knowing that from it drips the same blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Didn’t He also say that He came to seek those are lost? If they are lost and they are found then doesn’t that mean they will be soon retuning? So when they return be sure to recognize the sword your carrying.

Okay, I’m getting totally lost here. :ehh: I can’t see the connection between this and the original question; ‘If you do not believe Mary is Mother of God, who do you believe Jesus Christ is?’

As far as I’m concerned, someone who professes to believe in the Incarnation should be able to articulate why they do not believe Mary was Mother of God. If you do not believe in the Incarnation, then their is no difficulty. However if you believe in the Incarnation, there a problem saying Mary is not Mother of God. I can understand why Protestants disagree with praying to Mary. That does not mean I agree with them, but I can understand why they think that. I have no idea why some Protestants state emphatically Mary was not Mother of God if they believe Christ was the Incarnate God.

 

[tester]

Okay, I’m getting totally lost here. :ehh: I can’t see the connection between this and the original question; ‘If you do not believe Mary is Mother of God, who do you believe Jesus Christ is?’

As far as I’m concerned, someone who professes to believe in the Incarnation should be able to articulate why they do not believe Mary was Mother of God. If you do not believe in the Incarnation, then their is no difficulty. However if you believe in the Incarnation, there a problem saying Mary is not Mother of God. I can understand why Protestants disagree with praying to Mary. . I have no idea why some Protestants state emphatically Mary was not Mother of God if they believe Christ was the Incarnate God.

the “why” are thoughts like this:

“The Second Person of the Trinity is her God, not her son, for He did not originate in her womb.”

To some Protestants the word "mother " implies more than giving birth;

That does not mean I agree with them, but I can understand why they think that.

 

[westwaswon]

I was reading this and needed to throw my two cents in.
First off, Mary is not perfect. I can’t stand seeing people say that. God uses regular people (sinners) to do His work. All have sinned. The Bible clearly states that in many places. To say God couldn’t use a sinful Mary to fulfill Christ’s mission is completely degrading what God can do. Where anywhere does it say Mary is perfect? She was a very very Godly woman, worthy of being looked up to, but not perfect. That is an added gospel.
Second Protestants biggest problem is the veneration of Mary. Yes she was the vessel that delivered Jesus to us, but every work of God is as important as the last. You diminish others by upholding Mary so much. The last shall be first.
Mary is Queen of Heaven because Gabriel heralded her as “full of grace”?
To me that reads, she was a sinner, she needs her sins forgiven, God fills her full of grace. Not that by her own doing she became “perfect” enough to bear God’s Way. We are all rewarded in Heaven based on what we do here on earth but I don’t think we really know the whole there is to know so I’m gonna stick with just whats in the Bible, not what the Pope thinks he can add through decree.
And yes she is the Mother of God, in the way my mother is the Mother of Westwaswon haha. But not in the sense she has a spec of divinity. Jesus even exsisted before Mary, He created the earth. Which I think we all agree on but your saying sounds confusing and needlessly dogmatic.

Why can’t Mary just be a great lady, who loved God as we should, and was lucky enough to be a big player in God’s story? Why not spend the time praying to her, just praying right to Jesus? Protestants in my circles honor Mary and deservedly so, but they don’t ADD all the things Catholics do. Will a catholic please answer that for me? Why all the pomp for her? Why is she more deserving? Why assign extra emphasis?

 

[PRmerger]

Why can’t Mary just be a great lady, who loved God as we should, and was lucky enough to be a big player in God’s story? Why not spend the time praying to her, just praying right to Jesus? Protestants in my circles honor Mary and deservedly so, but they don’t ADD all the things Catholics do. Will a catholic please answer that for me? Why all the pomp for her? Why is she more deserving? Why assign extra emphasis?

We assign "extra emphasis: because, as with all Marian doctrines/dogmas, its significance has to do with our understanding of Christ.** Every Marian doctrine/dogma re-affirms and enhances our understanding of Jesus. **

It’s always all about Him!
[SIGN]
Every single Marian doctrine and dogma reinforces and highlights the divinity of Christ.[/SIGN]

Thus, with Mary as the Mother of God, this dogma was proclaimed after there was a heresy in the church which professed that Jesus was not divine, but a mere man.

The Church, in response, proclaimed Mary as theotokos. Just to make clear what the teaching on Christ was.

 

[panner]

I was reading this and needed to throw my two cents in.
First off, Mary is not perfect. I can’t stand seeing people say that. God uses regular people (sinners) to do His work. All have sinned.

Did Christ sin?

 

[westwaswon]

Did Christ sin?

Of course not. I figured that was granted.

 

[PRmerger]

Of course not. I figured that was granted.

Added, rather, don’t you mean?

Either “all have sinned” is a literal all, or it isn’t.

If it’s a literal all, then that would mean Jesus sinned. And, indeed, Muslims and Jews use that to say, “See, even your very own Scriptures proclaim that Jesus was a sinner.”

OR!

If it’s not a literal all, then there are exceptions, right?

 

[westwaswon]

We assign "extra emphasis: because, as with all Marian doctrines/dogmas, its significance has to do with our understanding of Christ.** Every Marian doctrine/dogma re-affirms and enhances our understanding of Jesus. **

It’s always all about Him!
[SIGN]
Every single Marian doctrine and dogma reinforces and highlights the divinity of Christ.[/SIGN]

Thus, with Mary as the Mother of God, this dogma was proclaimed after there was a heresy in the church which professed that Jesus was not divine, but a mere man.

The Church, in response, proclaimed Mary as theotokos. Just to make clear what the teaching on Christ was.

I guess I just don’t see how Christ’s divinity is tied to Mary in any way. The Father pronounces Jesus as His Son, His image. I don’t see how Mary has anything to do with that. I woudn’t answer “How do we know Christ is divine not man?” with something about Mary, I’d show scripture where it clearly pronounces Jesus as God. I think the catholic church has many beautiful aspects and I’ve been on the edge of converting for so long, this is just one the things I’m having trouble getting over. Thanks for your words.

 

[westwaswon]

Added, rather, don’t you mean?

Either “all have sinned” is a literal all, or it isn’t.

If it’s a literal all, then that would mean Jesus sinned. And, indeed, Muslims and Jews use that to say, “See, even your very own Scriptures proclaim that Jesus was a sinner.”

OR!

If it’s not a literal all, then there are exceptions, right?

Every 100% human man has sinned. Jesus is the one exception because He is fully God as well. Mary doesn’t have that designation.

 

[Roy5]

** One of my major problems when it comes to venerating Mary is that in all of the epistles her name doesn’t appear once.** Those letter-writers, certainly Paul, were instructing the church in many doctrines and practices. If Christians were supposed to give such a central position to Mary as “Queen of Heaven” (and much else) surely they would have made some reference to her.

** It seems quite possible to me that Mariology developed more and more as Christianity competed with early religions (such as the mystery religions as well as the Greco-Roman goddesses).** For example, there is strong evidence that Jesus wasn’t born in the winter, but that Christians ‘baptized’ (as it were) Saturnalia, the Roman holiday that occurred at the time of the winter solstice, seen as the birthday of the Sun - when the days began to become longer, etc. In the same fashion, could not Mary have become more and more idolized (literally) as time went on. I use the word idol with some apologies, yet I do find an altar focusing on Mary in abour every church where I attend mass.
**
But, those who accept the infallible word of the Pope and the Magisterium will not worry about such things. They accept it because the Church teaches it.**

** I also want to make it clear that it is certainly proper to honor Mary as the mother of human Jesus.** What a wonderful mission she had!!
**
But was she the mother of Christ’s divinity, that ‘part’ of Christ, if you will, which made him divine?** Hm! That’s where I have a problem when it comes to referring to her as the ‘Mother of God’.
Happy Near Year, whatever your creed, color or country.

 

[PRmerger]

Every 100% human man has sinned. Jesus is the one exception because He is fully God as well. Mary doesn’t have that designation.

Firstly, this is ADDING to Scripture. I do not see where it says every human has sinned.

It says ALL have sinned.

So either it’s a literal all or it’s not.

And, clearly, every 100% human man has not sinned. Do you believe that babies can sin? Or those with Down syndrome? Or those who have Noonan syndrome? Or toddlers can sin?

 

[PRmerger]

I guess I just don’t see how Christ’s divinity is tied to Mary in any way. The Father pronounces Jesus as His Son, His image. I don’t see how Mary has anything to do with that. I woudn’t answer “How do we know Christ is divine not man?” with something about Mary, I’d show scripture where it clearly pronounces Jesus as God. I think the catholic church has many beautiful aspects and I’ve been on the edge of converting for so long, this is just one the things I’m having trouble getting over. Thanks for your words.

The question is: why do Catholics proclaim Mary to be the mother of God?

The answer: because Jesus is God.

Thus, when we proclaim Mary to be the mother of God it speaks more about *Jesus *than it does about Mary.

 

[panner]

Every 100% human man has sinned. Jesus is the one exception because He is fully God as well. Mary doesn’t have that designation.

Christ is also 100% human as well. So we can say the verse can’t be literal and if God so choose to save someone before Christ died in our reality He could well do it because God is outside of time. As Christ said you wouldn’t put new wine into old wine skins