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kempo1
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what i cant understand is why proestants dont have problems with statues of presidents ,atheletes etc. but have a problem with our statues of our heroes
If you have studied the Catholic Church & her Teachings from sources within the Catholic Church and as a result you did not become Catholic, Please Po
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adrift
Guest
I don’t understand it either. :nope:what i cant understand is why proestants dont have problems with statues of presidents ,atheletes etc. but have a problem with our statues of our heroes
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
Probably because most people don’t bow to Presidential or sports statues, with prayer beads in hand. Furthermore, those prayers seem to equate this statue with God or God-like traits…
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CradleCath
Guest
Catholics believe that Jesus defeated death, that we live on… in heaven (or God forbid, hell). Therefore I ask Mary, Joan of Arc, St. Francis, etc. to pray for me…just as I would ask my sister to pray for me. For Catholics there is little difference, as I said, we consider these saints alive. I can look into my sister’s eyes when I ask for her prayers. I can get a picture of my parents, who have passed on from this life on earth & are now living in heaven & meditate on it as I ask them to pray for me. However, when I ask Mary for assistance in prayer…(holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY FOR US SINNERS, now & at the hour of our death.)…there is nothing to meditate on, nothing to fix my eyes upon as I ask for her help. That is why we erect statues, pray **before **paintings, etc.
This issue has been addressed for centuries, so it’s hard to believe that anyone still doubts our explanation.
BTW., I have often wondered if Protestants pray before a cross?? If so, they can surely understand the value of a visual aid when praying??
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
I fully understand how intercession works and the statues meet our spiritual and fleshy (read: not sinful nature. see accidents) needs yet there are some whom doubt due to “appearances”—what it looks like. Many times I’ve heard some people says “if it quacks like a duck, it must be a duck” regardless of any explanations provided.
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Hisalone
Guest
I really thought I was going to get something of substance you know like a definition.
The picture says nothing. Nowhere is there evidence that those in the picture believe the statue is god. After asking for a definition three times, I must conclude that you cannot define it. We must except the standard definition which means there is not idolatry unless it is intended as a god. You have not been able to demonstrate that this is true of Catholics. This is bearing false witness however.
My point since you keep missing it is this.
The faithfull of old whould never bow down to a statue or burn incense to ceaser. Did they believe the statue or ceaser was god? NO of course they did not but the very act of bowing down to (worship) they refused.
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Hisalone
Guest
Hello Dance
My first response to this thread was that I dont believe what Catholics tell me about themselves. As examples I used the undue adoration of statues and saints. When further questioned I also stated I did not believe the doctrines of papal infallibility, marian doctrines and purgatory. One poster rather than address my statements said Christians were put to death rather than deny the real presence of which I coutered that Christians were put to death for denying transubstantiation. Another poster wanted proof of that, That is where the inquisition came in.
Muslims will tell me they do not worship the kabaa I see where hundreds of thousands bow to the kabaa they reach out to touch it as if it is magical powers, when they pray 7 times a day they bow and pray toward the kabaa which the very same kabaa was used 1500 years ago in pagan worship. Muslims say but it is different now.
I dont believe them.
Why do I bring this story up because when I ask a Catholic why they tolerate the idolatry of someone who bows down to a statue, lights candles in front of it and prays. I am told 1st I cannot tell what is in that persons heart so dont judge, that no Catholic believes the staatue is a god. MY point is that the 3 Hebrew boys did not believe the staue wa a god yet they refused to bow down to it. I have recieved no adequate response to this.
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Hisalone
Guest
Thank you
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Hisalone
Guest
CradleCath;5927308there is nothing to meditate on said:
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Daedelus76
Guest
I initially became interested in Christianity over a year ago because I became disillusioned with Buddhism. I felt drawn to a more liturgical tradtion, though, and not the evangelical stuff, especially after reading more church history and comming into contact with Orthodox and Roman Catholics. I have been going to Anglican (former Episcopalian) churches. I have looked into the evidence for Roman Catholicism, and I just don’t see the evidence for the uniquely Roman Catholic doctrines, even though my own personal piety as somebody who has been attending an Anglican church, is not that far off from Roman Catholicism, though my understanding is perhaps closer to Orthodoxy.
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ckempston
Guest
I came fairly close, probably within the last year, to seriously considering reverting to Catholicism. While I agree with Catholic teaching on most everything when they stick to the scriptures, I’m afraid I cannot accept any doctrines from pretty much any council or church father as authoritative, but rather merely useful.
My main hang-up is that Jesus promised the Apostles would be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit:
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
So, I’m left with a choice: either the Apostles were led into all truth (i.e. those truths which are necessary for life, godliness, salvation, etc.) OR the Catholic church has continued to reveal new doctrines and “truths” down through the ages. I’m afraid it’s a rather easy choice.
My main hang-up is that Jesus promised the Apostles would be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit:
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
So, I’m left with a choice: either the Apostles were led into all truth (i.e. those truths which are necessary for life, godliness, salvation, etc.) OR the Catholic church has continued to reveal new doctrines and “truths” down through the ages. I’m afraid it’s a rather easy choice.
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
From what I understand, you see us being “hearers of the word but not doers of the word.” We say we don’t worship statues yet we have the prayer beads, the kneeling, the strange prayers, etc. You, Catholics, might not say it’s not idolatry but it LOOKS like it. Do I understand you correctly?
If you don’t believe what the Catholics and Muslims say about anything, then why are you here? (I’m not trying to push you out the door, just out of curiosity) “There’s a reason for everything” as the old adage goes. Why not explore those reasons? There’s no shame in “Why?” I’m not saying be indifferent, don’t go to Church, convert now…By all means, check your bible but there’s nothing wrong with empathy.
If you’d like to explore more about statues, idolatry, etc. Please see the “Statues” thread in the Non-Catholic forums. I’d be happy to answer your questions there as this does go beyond the scope of this thread.
Thanks for listening.
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adrift
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What you are ignoring is the reason WHY they did not bow to Caesar. Tell me why they didn’t.
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adrift
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Why did they refuse to bow down? This is the point that you do not explain adequately.
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Carlan
Guest
commissioned
Hello ckkemston, You forget that Jesus himself commissioned the Apostles to pass the truth of revelation on to his Church, The body of Christ is the Church and Christ is the head.The Holy Spirit continues through the body of Christ to teach and enlighten us.Jesus did not reveal new doctrines and truths down through the ages after he went to the Father. Through his Body the Church he is still teaching those same truths he revealed to us beforefore his death on the cross .You either believe that or you don’t or can’t accept it as yet. I trust God to bless and enlighten us all to the whole of truth.Amen
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ckempston
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Passing truth along is quite different from inventing new doctrines, which is what the Catholic church has done. Nobody in the first century ever heard of homoousious, the Queen of Heaven, the co-Redemptrix, Papal Infallability, or any other such man-made belief. Even if some Catholic doctrines are not contrary to the teachings of the Apostles, that does not make them true or necessary. Prior to his death on the cross, Jesus taught his followers to place no special significance upon his mother, which is the exact opposite of what Catholics do. How is this “teaching those same truths he revealed?”commissioned
Hello ckkemston, You forget that Jesus himself commissioned the Apostles to pass the truth of revelation on to his Church, The body of Christ is the Church and Christ is the head.The Holy Spirit continues through the body of Christ to teach and enlighten us.Jesus did not reveal new doctrines and truths down through the ages after he went to the Father. Through his Body the Church he is still teaching those same truths he revealed to us beforefore his death on the cross .You either believe that or you don’t or can’t accept it as yet. I trust God to bless and enlighten us all to the whole of truth.Amen
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elvisman
Guest
And I refuse to allow anti-Catholics to attack Christ’s Church.
As long as you wish to have charitable dialogue, it will go smoothly.
BUT**, when people come here thinking they can simply attack the Church and it will go unanswered – they have another thing coming.
I will expose them for what they are:**
Anti-Catholics**.**
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sckcd
Guest
I have wondered this myself. Can things not become skewed down through the ages? How do we know it is “ok” to follow such things?
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adrift
Guest
New doctrine. They may not have heard the term, just like they did not hear of the term Trinity but they certainly had the doctrine.
These are not man made. The concepts were there from the beginning.
Jesus did no such thing. You are taking it out of context and forgetting His first miracle was at the asking of His mother.
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ckempston
Guest
No, they didn’t. They had some of the parts, but not the doctrine, nor the requirement that it be believed in order to be a “true” Christian.
Where?
I have forgotten nothing. I call Mary blessed, as she said I would. Beyond that, attention to her is neither required, nor appropriate.
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