If you knew for a fact that life ceased to exist after death, how would you live your life now?

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Their motives as in, are you motivated to do good because you know god is watching? Would you still be motivated to be who you are if god wasn’t here and there was no judgement beyond death?

If you knew you could get away with taking money from someone but won’t do it because god says it’s wrong, but you would do it if knowing there is no judgement of what you did when we pass, isn’t it the same as actually commiting that crime because you know deep in your heart you would do it if god wasn’t around?

So, does god say you did good by following his laws or does he say you were wrong because even though you didn’t commit that crime because he is watching, he knows it was still in your soul to commit it if he wasn’t here.

On another thread I wrote, someone said god gives free will to people, so how does god influence us through natural law? Which I believe in natural law but I also believe that god gives free will but the way I view it, it contradicts each other even though I believe both are correct. If natural law is influence of good, isn’t that affecting someone’s free will? Anyone know?

Does god genuinely judge a person based on their actions, or what he knows what they would do if he wasn’t here?
I know how you can get really accurate answers to your questions. I know of a website that lets you ask questions for free, were people from various professions, even religious professions volunteer their time and answer your questions via email for you through this site. Can I PM you the link to this site? It’s not spam, I don’t want you to think it’s a spam link. It will give you great insight and I am sure they would love to answer the questions you have posted on this thread. Catholic answers is great and all but you will get straight forward truthful answers from people in religious orders. I also encourage you to talk to your priest and see what they have to say. let me know if it’s okay to pm you the link. Good questions!

Jen

I
 
This is an intriguing question. If there was no God would there be any definition of good vs. evil. Perhaps this is proof that God does exist (which I believe 100% anyways). No God = no morals. I would think that morals wouldn’t even exist if there was no God. Would love even exist or attachment?
 
This is an intriguing question. If there was no God would there be any definition of good vs. evil. Perhaps this is proof that God does exist (which I believe 100% anyways). No God = no morals. I would think that morals wouldn’t even exist if there was no God. Would love even exist or attachment?
Yes, good thought! who would define what is good vs evil? I think man would set it by how they would want to be treated. They wouldn’t want to get killed so laws are in place to punish those that lash out. Who knows, only god knows what would happen. All we can do is assume.

magicstick, you can pm me. That site sounds wonderful! I would love for someone that was in a religious order to answer my questions. Even though this site is great, I need to find someone in the “know” as a profession and I don’t really think anyone like that is on here. I am glad there were a lot of people that enjoyed this thread, that made me very happy. If only I can figure out how to get in contact with my old professor, this thread would make his day.
 
magicstick, you can pm me. That site sounds wonderful! I would love for someone that was in a religious order to answer my questions. Even though this site is great, I need to find someone in the “know” as a profession and I don’t really think anyone like that is on here.
Uh, I stand corrected, there are people who are in the religious profession on here, I just saw ask the apologist. I wonder if there are others as well on here as well? Well, I typically don’t come to this site much and I really haven’t worked my way around it. That’s something I will have to do one of these days. 🙂 magicsticks, I think I will take your advice and I talk to my priest when I go to church this weekend. I would love to know what he has to say, he is a very wise man. God bless
 
But doesn’t anyone here deeply yearn for the life with Jesus in Heaven? What if you knew for sure that you would NEVER have that, and you would NEVER see your dead relatives and friends again? Think of all the elderly people who have lost so many dear to them, they are looking forward to eternal life with Jesus and their loved ones. Heck I am not elderly and I yearn for the day when I can see my dear mother and father again.

That would be my biggest loss, and I am not sure I would want to go on, frankly.
 
This is an intriguing question. If there was no God would there be any definition of good vs. evil. Perhaps this is proof that God does exist (which I believe 100% anyways). No God = no morals. I would think that morals wouldn’t even exist if there was no God. Would love even exist or attachment?
This is exactly the point I have been trying to make but have been continually blown off for it.

Thank you for putting it into words I was not able to.
magicstick, you can pm me. That site sounds wonderful! I would love for someone that was in a religious order to answer my questions. Even though this site is great, I need to find someone in the “know” as a profession and I don’t really think anyone like that is on here. I am glad there were a lot of people that enjoyed this thread, that made me very happy. If only I can figure out how to get in contact with my old professor, this thread would make his day.
This makes me wonder if people around here actually read the posts of other users fully or just scan them to get an idea of what is being said.

I am a member of a religious order, you would know this if you read my signature.

See below.
 
Their motives as in, are you motivated to do good because you know god is watching? Would you still be motivated to be who you are if god wasn’t here and there was no judgement beyond death?
I should hope that we would still love and be charitable towards our neighbour now that we no longer fear the divine wrath. But selfish fear must not be the influence behind our charitable deeds in the first place. An insincere love isn’t genuine love but merely an outward appearance of something that isn’t really there.
If you knew you could get away with taking money from someone but won’t do it because god says it’s wrong, but you would do it if knowing there is no judgement of what you did when we pass, isn’t it the same as actually commiting that crime because you know deep in your heart you would do it if god wasn’t around?
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
Deuteronomy 6:5


One can sin against God in his heart by coveting a created thing in the place of his Creator in complete indifference towards Him and what He desires from us: our complete and undivided love and aversion to what offends Him. There is absolutely no human merit in our actions and cause for reward if we merely do good and avoid evil for the sake of future beatitude rather than the divine good. Paul condemned those works of the law that were done for the sake of obligating God to us.
So, does God say you did good by following his laws or does he say you were wrong because even though you didn’t commit that crime because he is watching, he knows it was still in your soul to commit it if he wasn’t here.
In order to be justified before God, we must, in the words of Paul, “put on Christ” which requires a complete interior transformation with the help of God’s actual graces - and our collaboration with his grace - that conforms to the image of the Son of Man. Following the law for its own sake does not justify us.
On another thread I wrote, someone said god gives free will to people, so how does god influence us through natural law? Which I believe in natural law but I also believe that god gives free will but the way I view it, it contradicts each other even though I believe both are correct. If natural law is influence of good, isn’t that affecting someone’s free will? Anyone know?
Affecting, yes. Negating, no. We have the power to resist any influence, including God’s sufficient grace. Divine grace is a merciful gift from God which can be either accepted or rejected by the beneficiary
Does god genuinely judge a person based on their actions, or what he knows what they would do if he wasn’t here?
Jesus did mean to say that a person can commit an act of adultery in his heart without actually physically doing it. When Mary presented the infant Jesus in the temple, Simeon foretold that her Son was destined to *“reveal the thoughts of many hearts”. *So it would appear that we shall ultimately be judged for what is lurking in our hearts and minds- but not to the disclusion of our actual deeds and sinful acts of omission.

I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees. You shall live in the land I gave your fathers; you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36, 25-28


An interior transformation by the sufficient grace of God and our cooperation with his grace, to the effect that we renounce all the idols that enslave us and prevent us from having a share in the freedom of the Spirit, is necessary for our salvation.

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
Matthew 5, 8


Good and important questions. Thanks.

:thankyou:

PAX :heaven:
 
I should hope that we would still love and be charitable towards our neighbour now that we no longer fear the divine wrath. But selfish fear must not be the influence behind our charitable deeds in the first place. An insincere love isn’t genuine love but merely an outward appearance of something that isn’t really there.

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
Deuteronomy 6:5


One can sin against God in his heart by coveting a created thing in the place of his Creator in complete indifference towards Him and what He desires from us: our complete and undivided love and aversion to what offends Him. There is absolutely no human merit in our actions and cause for reward if we merely do good and avoid evil for the sake of future beatitude rather than the divine good. Paul condemned those works of the law that were done for the sake of obligating God to us.

In order to be justified before God, we must, in the words of Paul, “put on Christ” which requires a complete interior transformation with the help of God’s actual graces - and our collaboration with his grace - that conforms to the image of the Son of Man. Following the law for its own sake does not justify us.

Affecting, yes. Negating, no. We have the power to resist any influence, including God’s sufficient grace. Divine grace is a merciful gift from God which can be either accepted or rejected by the beneficiary.

Jesus did mean to say that a person can commit an act of adultery in his heart without actually physically doing it. When Mary presented the infant Jesus in the temple, Simeon foretold that her Son was destined to *“reveal the thoughts of many hearts”. *So it would appear that we shall ultimately be judged for what is lurking in our hearts and minds- but not to the disclusion of our actual deeds and sinful acts of omission.

I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees. You shall live in the land I gave your fathers; you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36, 25-28


An interior transformation by the sufficient grace of God and our cooperation with his grace, to the effect that we renounce all the idols that enslave us and prevent us from having a share in the freedom of the Spirit, is necessary for our salvation.

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
Matthew 5, 8


Good and important questions. Thanks.

:thankyou:

PAX :heaven:
 
Lets say, it was a proven fact that there was no god, no after life, no anything. That when we die, the party is over and lights are out.

How would you live your life differently? I know we all (well, for most members on this board) know that this isn’t the case, but what if it was? How would you live your life different or would it be any different than how you live it now?
I would do my best to delude myself that what I did during my short little life had any significance at all. I tend to agree with Blaise Pascal on the absurdity of life without God.
 
I find truly hysterical the posts on the first page that say, basically, “I’d become a master criminal and steal lots of money!”

Such claims depend on the assertion that the only thing currently keeping you from doing such things is your belief in a supernatural entity who will punish you – and not your personal character, your values, your fear of being caught for such actions, your complete ineptitude at theft, or any combination thereof.

The fact of the matter is that whether or not there’s a god is irrelevant to questions of law and order. Whether there’s a god or not, nobody wants to live in a society where stealing and murder and rape happen all the time, and we all value living in a society where there are safeguards in place for personal privacy and choices and autonomy.

As a result, the laws of the land and our systems of crime and punishment are always going to be pretty consistent, regardless of whether or not people believe in gods. Keep in mind that the US government is a secular government – its government is “not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,” to quote the Treaty of Tripoli, signed under John Adams in 1797 – and it still has laws and order like any other country.

Governments – at least secular ones – don’t derive their authority from supernatural beings. They derive their authority from the consent of the governed, from “we the people.” That’s why governments have power and why laws are created and enforced – because of the social contract, not magical beings.
This is an intriguing question. If there was no God would there be any definition of good vs. evil. Perhaps this is proof that God does exist (which I believe 100% anyways). No God = no morals. I would think that morals wouldn’t even exist if there was no God. Would love even exist or attachment?
Well, I happen to not believe in any gods, and I have no problem defining good and evil in ways that are fairly easily understood by others, so methinks you might have to give your position a little more thought here.

A good start would be studying systems of moral philosophy, including the numerous non-theistic systems of morality.
 
Lets say, it was a proven fact that there was no god, no after life, no anything. That when we die, the party is over and lights are out.

How would you live your life differently? I know we all (well, for most members on this board) know that this isn’t the case, but what if it was? How would you live your life different or would it be any different than how you live it now?
you know i have thought over this and to be honest i cannot say i would be any different.
i don’t behave the way i do because i am afraid of a big man in the sky i behave the way i behave because i decided that i want to be this person… if that makes sense.
i am kind to the elderly because i feel that they deserve my kindness not because i fear judgment. i fight and struggle to fend for my children because after having thought it through and early on i decided, that is who i wanted to be, i wanted to be a moma lion and so i am … i didn’t care then that God said it should be i didn’t do the things i have done for them because a book or a preacher said to … i did it because it was the best i had to offer…
and in the same train of thought the thing that gets me through rough spots isn’t hope in God. it is the knowledge that life will do what it will do and crying will not change that.
 
What would I do if I were a convinced atheist?

The beginning of Crime and Punishment answers the question.

And from there, the world.
 
Lets say, it was a proven fact that there was no god, no after life, no anything. That when we die, the party is over and lights are out.

How would you live your life differently? I know we all (well, for most members on this board) know that this isn’t the case, but what if it was? How would you live your life different or would it be any different than how you live it now?
I’d be compelled to drop all my Christian habits because there’d be no reason to continue with them so I guess my character would subsequently change as well. I think I’d still want to hang with Christians but I certainly wouldn’t tell any of them I knew they were living a lie. I suppose I’d live the rest of my life as a pragmatist so I’d probably go with the flow and take the least line of resistance whenever I could. I don’t think I’d go out of my way to do harm to anyone but as I grew into my new worldview I suppose I might do so if I thought I could get away with it.

In time, I’d possibly consider taking juggling and prestidigitation classes and then starting my own non–denominational church. 🙂

Imaginatively,
Mick
👍
 
Their motives as in, are you motivated to do good because you know god is watching? Would you still be motivated to be who you are if god wasn’t here and there was no judgement beyond death?

If you knew you could get away with taking money from someone but won’t do it because god says it’s wrong, but you would do it if knowing there is no judgement of what you did when we pass, isn’t it the same as actually commiting that crime because you know deep in your heart you would do it if god wasn’t around?

So, does god say you did good by following his laws or does he say you were wrong because even though you didn’t commit that crime because he is watching, he knows it was still in your soul to commit it if he wasn’t here.
I can see the point of this being asked in a theology class now. I will drop the philosophy and deal with this from the point of view you have given here.
On another thread I wrote, someone said god gives free will to people, so how does god influence us through natural law? Which I believe in natural law but I also believe that god gives free will but the way I view it, it contradicts each other even though I believe both are correct. If natural law is influence of good, isn’t that affecting someone’s free will? Anyone know?
Does god genuinely judge a person based on their actions, or what he knows what they would do if he wasn’t here?
The natural law being written on our hearts, IMHO, does not affect our free will. The natural law tells us what is right and good, it does not make us do it or influence us to do it.

The golden rule (which can be found in paragraph 1970 of the Catechism) “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; this is the law and the prophets.” Now without God existing we would have to drop the last part, “this is the law and the prophets.” because we would have no law from God or prophets from God, but the beginning, do to others as you would have them do to you is written on our hearts. It does not make us do so.

The Scriptures tell us the two greatest commandants, Love the Lord your God and Love your neighbor as yourself. The second one here for me, Love your neighbor as yourself, is just another way to state the golden rule. I have reflected on this through my formation and my pastoral studies classes. So many people do not love themselves so when they treat their neighbors like crud they are “loving” them as they “love” themselves. This is part of our fallen nature.

It is our job as religious and clergy (I believe) to help these people to realize this and to reform their inner lives so that they can express it in their outer lives.

I know I rambled a bit here but I hope you can understand what I am trying to get across.
 
Why would it affect people’s lives, unless, of course, they were only behaving well and helping others to better themselves in their perception of an afterlife.
 
Why would it affect people’s lives, unless, of course, they were only behaving well and helping others to better themselves in their perception of an afterlife.
It’s true that people behave in accordance with their beliefs. Ideas have consequences. Christians love their neighbors but cannibals eat their neighbors. Atheists do not fast and theists pray. So when people change their beliefs one can reasonably expect to see a change in behavior but I don’t think it necessarily follows that selfish motives are always present.

Cordially,
Mick
👍
 
The answers are certainly noble, but I tend to disagee.

First, man is civilized because of God. All good is from God and His will. To assume you will be just as Good without God is a mistake. It is “todays” mistake.

What would happen, is exactly what “is” happening. As we slowly drift into a barbaric state of being. And since man quickly forgets his past, we would not know we have become barbaric. If a barbaric man knew he was barbaric he would change, fact is he see’s no error in this thinking. So there would be no return trip from the insanity.

Oh you would continue your life “exactly” as it is today…maybe. But that wouldn’t last long because our world would mimick what we consider 3rd world countries today in a very short time. The “fringe” of civilization, those who could be quickly written off as they so quickly are when “push comes to shove”. And push always comes to shove. Exactly what is it that makes civil Europe and America civil? The inner “Good” of man? Thats the pipe dream being sold and bought today. There is no such thing or animal. An we are the only animal that kills for sport. All other animals kill to survive. So don’t give wonderful man to much credit. He doesn’t deserve it. Our Good is from the Grace of God, all of it! There is NO GOOD in man without God. Thats the exact problem today. Thats the evil sold and bought daily. Theres no God, only this moment, live out your sexual immoral thinking and materialistic thoughts…Go for it, what does it matter? Thats the Pipe Dream right there.

Look at countries where God doesn’t or refuse’s to live? How civil they are, as they butcher and kill for so little. As they slip away from civil thinking… Land is always the prize and who has the most and best.

Today we argue that all there is to reality is what we see right in front of us. No need to look anywhere else. The materialistic world which “we” created in the USA can’t continue at this rate. Its impossible and destruction is eminent. Theres only one solution and that is a return to Christ. The Heartlands of Christology “are” civilized man. And maybe we have reached a time where we need to focus on saving those “first”. A “survival plan” in other words. Its certainly become apparent we have lost many of the fringe communites where God simply is refused, rejected, or a unknown. In other words He refuses to live!

Do you not see members come right here to CAF and debate for page after page how man didn’t land on the Moon? And you don’t believe man quickly forgets his past? That was 40-years ago. Mankinds history is the war of Good and evil.

First there would be Civil War, sooner or later a democracy would give way to a Dictatorship or worse. Simply put those willing to take and kill and who do it best would control the rest. And whatever comes into play by chance would come into play. At some point you would have to kill to live. Make no mistake about this. Anyone who has been in war here will assure you just how quick man forgets he is civil. It take the US Marines 4-weeks to make a 90% change in a Baptised/Catholic who actually practiced his religion. In 4-weeks 17 years of Christian teaching goes out the window. And once all “hell” breaks loose, theres no tucking it back into the bag. Those who take God to war with them hold there sanity. Those who don’t? Well it gets real ugly.

These evils, we have seen them all. They are no different, just different names and brand new packaging, but the evils are the same. We contiue to insist on a seperation of church and state. Here Islam has clearly out thought us. As much as one would like to look down upon this Faith, they have this part correct. There is no seperation from Church and State. The sooner we come to this truth the better off the world will be. The civil world is civil due to Christ and the Cross and the message that was spread from Christ to the Apostles and the amazing work so many such as the Apostle Paul have done. Right here to today to Pope Benedict. The US managed a meager 250 years, a drop in the ocean of time. And thats a credit to God. Time we got off the soap box of church and state. Our forefathers problem wasn’t Church, it was Kingdom and class. First thing done here was community churchs were established as were forts.

Because the message is passed in humility and peace, don’t confuse that for there being “no problem”. We are in quick sand about to go under. Its not by chance Pope Benedict is telling society we need more Catholics in Politics. Why would he say that?

Its easy to look back on the past and point fingers at Christology also. Yet there has been no better solution thats come along to date. For the simple fact that God is the only one who’s asked us into communion with Him. Man to date is still refusing, and as man suffers so shall we who have chose Communion with God. The only question is to what degree?

OR…would you agrue I am wrong and we would find a utopia without God? Hum…how many past civilizations have failed to date? We will be the Sixth! In case no-one noticed, not one has made it thus far. And its foolish to believe we are more civil or intelligent, that just isn’t fact. History certainly doesn’t indicate that anything but Christology works. Why would that be?

Its hard to see the forest from below the tree line. Yet we must do this once again or once again suffer the consequence’s. No God = No Life! Or better put that circle of life evolutionists insist on? Well thats what life would be reduced to. The the cycle repeats as it has 5X previously. On and on it go’s till we “accept” truth. How about this Philosophy. How about mankind go with God for 5-years. An all out effort to embace God for 5-years. And lets see how life then plays out? We have nothing to lose, we can only gain!

Sorry about typos.

God Bless, GT
 
The answers are certainly noble, but I tend to disagee.

First, man is civilized because of God. All good is from God and His will. To assume you will be just as Good without God is a mistake. It is “todays” mistake.

What would happen, is exactly what “is” happening. As we slowly drift into a barbaric state of being. And since man quickly forgets his past, we would not know we have become barbaric. If a barbaric man knew he was barbaric he would change, fact is he see’s no error in this thinking. So there would be no return trip from the insanity.

Oh you would continue your life “exactly” as it is today…maybe. But that wouldn’t last long because our world would mimick what we consider 3rd world countries today in a very short time. The “fringe” of civilization, those who could be quickly written off as they so quickly are when “push comes to shove”. And push always comes to shove. Exactly what is it that makes civil Europe and America civil? The inner “Good” of man? Thats the pipe dream being sold and bought today. There is no such thing or animal. An we are the only animal that kills for sport. All other animals kill to survive. So don’t give wonderful man to much credit. He doesn’t deserve it. Our Good is from the Grace of God, all of it! There is NO GOOD in man without God. Thats the exact problem today. Thats the evil sold and bought daily. Theres no God, only this moment, live out your sexual immoral thinking and materialistic thoughts…Go for it, what does it matter? Thats the Pipe Dream right there.

Look at countries where God doesn’t or refuse’s to live? How civil they are, as they butcher and kill for so little. As they slip away from civil thinking… Land is always the prize and who has the most and best.

Today we argue that all there is to reality is what we see right in front of us. No need to look anywhere else. The materialistic world which “we” created in the USA can’t continue at this rate. Its impossible and destruction is eminent. Theres only one solution and that is a return to Christ. The Heartlands of Christology “are” civilized man. And maybe we have reached a time where we need to focus on saving those “first”. A “survival plan” in other words. Its certainly become apparent we have lost many of the fringe communites where God simply is refused, rejected, or a unknown. In other words He refuses to live!

Do you not see members come right here to CAF and debate for page after page how man didn’t land on the Moon? And you don’t believe man quickly forgets his past?

First there would be Civil War, sooner or later a democracy would give way to a Dictatorship or worse. Simply put those willing to take and kill and who do it best would control the rest. And whatever comes into play by chance would come into play. At some point you would have to kill to live. Make no mistake about this. Anyone who has been in war here will assure you just how quick man forgets he is civil. It take the US Marines 4-weeks to make a 90% change in a Baptised/Catholic who actually practiced his religion. In 4-weeks 17 years of Christian teaching goes out the window. And once all “hell” breaks loose, theres no tucking it back into the bag. Those who take God to war with them hold there sanity. Those who don’t? Well it gets real ugly.

These evils, we have seen them all. They are no different, just different names and brand new packaging, but the evils are the same. We contiue to insist on a seperation of church and state. Here Islam has clearly out thought us. As much as one would like to look down upon this Faith, they have this part correct. There is no seperation from Church and State. The sooner we come to this truth the better off the world will be. The civil world is civil due to Christ and the Cross and the message that was spread from Christ to the Apostles and the amazing work so many such as the Apostle Paul have done. Right here to today to Pope Benedict. The US managed a meager 250 years, a drop in the ocean of time. And thats a credit to God. Time we got off the soap box of church and state. Our forefathers problem wasn’t Church, it was Kingdom and class. First thing done here was community churchs were established as were forts.

Because the message is passed in humility and peace, don’t confuse that for there being “no problem”. We are in quick sand about to go under. Its not by chance Pope Benedict is telling society we need more Catholics in Politics. Why would he say that?

Its easy to look back on the past and point fingers at Christology also. Yet there has been no better solution thats come along to date. For the simple fact that God is the only one who’s asked us into communion with Him. Man to date is still refusing, and as man suffers so shall we who have chose Communion with God. The only question is to what degree?

OR…would you agrue I am wrong and we would find a utopia without God? Hum…how many past civilizations have failed to date? We will be the Sixth! In case no-one noticed, not one has made it thus far. And its foolish to believe we are more civil or intelligent, that just isn’t fact. History certainly doesn’t indicate that anything but Christology works. Why would that be?

Its hard to see the forest from below the tree line. Yet we must do this once again or once again suffer the consequence’s. No God = No Life! Or better put that circle of life evolutionists insist on? Well thats what life would be reduced to. The the cycle repeats as it has 5X previously. On and on it go’s till we “accept” truth. How about this Philosophy. How about mankind go with God for 5-years. An all out effort to embace God for 5-years. And lets see how life then plays out? We have nothing to lose, we can only gain!
Yes, but if you knew for a fact that life ceased to exist after death, how would you live your life now?

Curiously,
Mick
👍
 
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