If your GF or BF wanted to save kissing for marriage

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Walking_Home said:
It would seem to me – if a kiss was enough for him to loose control – he would not be someone I’d recommend marrying.
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Yes. Within a marital relationship, it would be a bummer if A couldn’t kiss without losing control and B loved kissing and used kissing to express love and didn’t feel loved without it.

I think that couple would find NFP together or any sort of prolonged medically-ordered abstinence a trial.
 
xojane.com/sex/true-love-waits-pledge

Perhaps some of you have already read this article.

I don’t agree with the conclusion (have sex before marriage), but I do agree that taking virginity pledges at too young an age can result in a warped perspective of sexual intercourse in marriage.

Constantly on CAF, we see threads and posts, mainly from women, who cannot bring themselves to enjoy or even have sex with their husbands because they feel that it’s “dirty” or “sinful.”

We also see posts from men inquiring about the possibility of a marriage with no sex, since they don’t feel comfortable with sex.

This is all so wrong. It’s not Catholic or Christian at all, it’s warped.

I think that a seriously-dating couple should definitely kiss (with tongues) and even make out so that sex on the wedding night (or whenever after the wedding) is not a total shock. I can’t even imagine kissing my husband for the first time on my wedding night–I would be terrified of our physicality and our emotions.
 
Walking_Home said:
It would seem to me – if a kiss was enough for him to loose control of his passions – he would not be someone I’d recommend marrying.
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I think this depends on the person…and whether they’ve ever had sex before.

I know as for DH and I, we have to avoid any kissing or close contact during my fertile times because we know it’s just going to make it too hard to keep it under control. I know some NFP couples even sleep in different beds at that time of the cycle.

I think it’s harder to maintain control for somebody who has had sex before, especially if they’ve re-committed to chastity. And it would be understandable for a man who is very aware of his raging hormones even though he’s a virgin.
 
I think physical attraction and sexual compatibility are extremely important in a marriage. I don’t mean one has to have premarital sex, but there should at least be some physical contact and expressions of affection and desire so the couple can gauge where they are individually and how they are likely to be as a sexually active married couple. Not to mention I think discussions of sex and expectations are also important and I get the feeling these things are ignored or downplayed by these “courtship” people.

I just can’t imagine pledging myself to someone for life without knowing if we’re physically compatible. In my single days I met a few men who were great potential spouses on paper, but there was no spark between us. Marrying one of those men would have been a disaster for me. I only knew for sure there was nothing beyond friendship there after we tried kissing. So, I answered that not kissing is a dealbreaker for me. I would understand if the fellow I was interested in felt it was wrong and I wouldn’t pressure him, but I wouldn’t keep dating him, either.
 
MJJean said:
I think physical attraction and sexual compatibility are extremely important in a marriage. I don’t mean one has to have premarital sex, but there should at least be some physical contact and expressions of affection and desire so the couple can gauge where they are individually and how they are likely to be as a sexually active married couple. Not to mention I think discussions of sex and expectations are also important and I get the feeling these things are ignored or downplayed by these “courtship” people.

I just can’t imagine pledging myself to someone for life without knowing if we’re physically compatible. In my single days I met a few men who were great potential spouses on paper, but there was no spark between us. Marrying one of those men would have been a disaster for me. I only knew for sure there was nothing beyond friendship there after we tried kissing. So, I answered that not kissing is a dealbreaker for me. I would understand if the fellow I was interested in felt it was wrong and I wouldn’t pressure him, but I wouldn’t keep dating him, either.
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Yes. Not wanting to kiss or have casual physical contact could reflect asexuality, homosexuality, serious sensory issues (for instance, autism spectrum), a history of abuse, a total lack of physical attraction, etc, and the person might not be forthright about the motivation for being unwilling to kiss.

So, I would be very concerned if any of my children were involved with someone who wouldn’t kiss before marriage.
 
Xantippe said:
Yes. Not wanting to kiss or have casual physical contact could reflect asexuality, homosexuality, serious sensory issues (for instance, autism spectrum), a history of abuse, a total lack of physical attraction, etc, and the person might not be forthright about the motivation for being unwilling to kiss.

So, I would be very concerned if any of my children were involved with someone who wouldn’t kiss before marriage.
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I was actually thinking about this earlier. I’ve known several people IRL who knew they were homosexual but married someone of the opposite sex long enough to have children the natural way and then divorce and move on to their homosexual lifestyle.

I’ve seen it too many times to NOT be suspicious if my boyfriend was OK with avoiding kissing before marrying me.
 
Xantippe said:
Yes. Not wanting to kiss or have casual physical contact could reflect asexuality, homosexuality, serious sensory issues (for instance, autism spectrum), a history of abuse, a total lack of physical attraction, etc, and the person might not be forthright about the motivation for being unwilling to kiss.

So, I would be very concerned if any of my children were involved with someone who wouldn’t kiss before marriage.
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It’s also possible the person might simply be unaware. I imagine if you’ve never been allowed to touch and/or kiss someone of the opposite sex you probably wouldn’t know how you would feel and respond. The time to get to know who you are, how you feel/respond and what you’re looking for in a mate is NOT after the wedding.
 
Xantippe said:
Yes. Not wanting to kiss or have casual physical contact could reflect asexuality, homosexuality, serious sensory issues (for instance, autism spectrum), a history of abuse, a total lack of physical attraction, etc, and the person might not be forthright about the motivation for being unwilling to kiss.

So, I would be very concerned if any of my children were involved with someone who wouldn’t kiss before marriage.
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Yes, excellent post.
 
I would want to know why they were not comfortable kissing. It would most likely mean that we had some significant differences either in beliefs or comfort with physical intimacy.

I am also familiar with enough cases of people not realizing they were homosexual, asexual, or had serious issues with physical intimacy until they began to interact physically with the opposite sex.

From my own experience in 50 yrs of living, people who were hesitant physically early on, continued to be so for a myriad of reasons. That being said, I don’t enjoy kissing at all, but I like hand holding, snuggling, etc. But I am up front about that with the people I date. I just thing kissing is yucky, not immoral.
 
If your GF or BF wanted to save kissing for marriage…

I might keep her as a friend, but that is it.

I kissed my last girlfriend at the end of our first date. 29 1/2 years of marriage later, I have no regrets!

Peace

Tim
 
Probably not, no. I don’t see the point of getting married if you’re getting married to someone who is frigid. You might as well just stay in grinding celibacy. And since this was spurred on by the Duggars, I’m pretty sure they’ve been influenced a lot by the cult-like theology of Bill Gothard, I’d recommend not looking to them as a good example of Christian living.
 
I’ve known several couples in real life who did this (or rather didn’t do this :p) and they managed just fine. I considered going the non-kissing route for a time, but only when I was single and never when I was dating. :o For me, “frigidity” would have played no role in it whatsoever. It would have rather been a very difficult sacrifice in an effort to better live out my call to chastity.

So I don’t necessarily think that such an approach is always unhealthy. It certainly can be, but isn’t always.

I would probably agree with MasonDoggy that it would depend on the reason.

Of course, it is irrelevant to me now as I am married. 🙂
 
I’d be okay with it. Kissing wasn’t apart of my culture until the Europeans came anyway and it’s still not that important now. Kissing amongst married couples is not done all that often either.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
some posters push the idea that “if you wouldn’t do it in front of your grandmother, don’t do it”. Though granted, such restrictive advice seems to be most directed at teenagers (who many think shouldn’t be dating in the first place), not people old enough to discern marriage.
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My grandmother used to watch the Benny Hill show.

😃
 
Estevao said:
Probably not, no. I don’t see the point of getting married if you’re getting married to someone who is frigid. You might as well just stay in grinding celibacy. And since this was spurred on by the Duggars, I’m pretty sure they’ve been influenced a lot by the cult-like theology of Bill Gothard, I’d recommend not looking to them as a good example of Christian living.
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I think I probably agree.
 
I voted to end the relationship.

Such a rule would simply leave too many unknowns, too many unanswered questions.

As a silly example, I once briefly dated a girl who smoked. Had I never kissed her, I would not have known how perfectly awful it is to kiss someone who smokes.
 
Father Serpa here on CAF answered this question and advocates for no passionate kissing before marriage and even considers it a sin. I feel like he is trying to give the asker a guilt trip about it (ie “justifying it”.) Apparently, the Sensus Fidelium here on CAF believes differently based on the majority of the responses I have read.

Here is the questions and answer:

“My girlfriend and I were friends for roughly 7 months before we went into a relationship. We have been very happy with each other. We have never had sex and have set a boundary for that. But I wondering one thing is “making out” a sin?
I waited 2 months for our first kiss so that we could build a strong relationship. We love doing stuff together such as fishing, hiking and etc. but only on some nights when we’re watching a movie is when we make out. We don’t French kiss but our “making out” is just several passionate kisses. This doesn’t lead to any temptation or immoral acts so I don’t feel that our making out is a sin but I am curious cause I’ve heard this go many ways.”

"Hi,

Passionate kissing is an exclusive expression of affection. It is not the ordinary way people relate to just anybody. While you may like each other, your relationship is not exclusive yet. You are both free to go your separate ways. Passionate kissing is appropriate when it is in sync with the exclusive relationship that we call marriage.

I expect that this info will not resonate with you, especially now that your are in the habit of enjoying and justifying it. But the fact that you asked about, tells me that your conscience is not entirely comfortable with it. And rightly so. Listen to it.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P."

Here is a link to go with it.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=901822

Let us remember that CAF priests are not infallible.(I hope that does not get me banned) I personally think this kind of advice can cause difficulty for some couples when they finally do get married for all the reasons posters here have mentioned.
 
I would not date someone who had that rule. Not because I necessarily NEED to kiss, but because it would be indicative of an emotional immaturity and rigidity that I cannot personally find attractive.
 
Joe_5859 said:
I’ve known several couples in real life who did this (or rather didn’t do this :p) and they managed just fine. I considered going the non-kissing route for a time, but only when I was single and never when I was dating. :o For me, “frigidity” would have played no role in it whatsoever. It would have rather been a very difficult sacrifice in an effort to better live out my call to chastity.

So I don’t necessarily think that such an approach is always unhealthy. It certainly can be, but isn’t always.

I would probably agree with MasonDoggy that it would depend on the reason.

Of course, it is irrelevant to me now as I am married. 🙂
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I appreciated your post, Joe5859, simply because you seem to be the one of the few posters here who thinks NOT kissing is acceptable and that a not-kissing stance NOT necessarily an indicator of frigidity, asexuality, homosexuality, autism, etc. (Unless I am interpreting people wrong and the idea is merely to be careful that such issues are not in play.)

I must confess I am somewhat disturbed by the many posters who seem to be saying not just that kissing before marriage is not a sin (which I agree with), or that a no-kissing stance would be deal-breaker personally, which I respect as well, but seem to be implying that EVERYONE should kiss before marriage, and that there must be something wrong with people who hold a no-kissing stance, that such people must be frigid, asexual, homosexual, etc.

You do realize that these are the same accusations secular people throw at people who have a no-sex-before-marriage stance?

I also find it very interesting that although the poll results are running basically 50/50 between continuing the relationship with those boundaries and ending the relationship, most of the actual posts seem to skew towards ending the relationship. It makes me wonder if people afraid to state the contrary, for fear they will be accused of bring “frigid” too?

Xantippe, I have agreed with your posts on the original Duggar courtship topic, but your statement that “I would be very concerned if any of my children were involved with someone who wouldn’t kiss before marriage”, actually reminds me of a post by BlueEyedLady a while back when she stated that she’d be concerned if any of her children were involved with someone who didn’t have sex before marriage!

However, it seems that whenever such a person either posts on the site, or whether a poster asks for advice because a significant other wants to have sex before marriage, most posters automatically assume a person who thinks sex before marriage is acceptable, MUST be motivated ONLY by selfish lust and should be kicked to the curb immediately. Even though, from a completely secular POV, isn’t the idea that people should actually have sex to confirm “sexual compatibility” isn’t THAT different from the idea that they should kiss or “make out” to test for this.

This doesn’t mean I endorse sex before marriage, but perhaps we should be a LITTLE more charitable both to people whose physical boundaries are more strict than our own (instead of accusing them of being frigid), and those whose boundaries are more lax than their own (instead of accusing them of being selfish lustful sinners)?
 
I think I would respect the other person’s beliefs and try to maintain the relationship. I would however find it hard to avoid pecks on the cheek, hugs, etc - these are ways I interact with my parents, grandparents, and friends - peers and older. I don’t consider that kind of interaction sexual - it’s a sign of affection, trust, and closeness.

However, one bit of info I picked up (first from a lovely TV show called Pushing Daisies, where the two lead romantics can’t ever physically touch, but are in love, so choose to remain chaste) that kissing might be able to determine whether a couple is genetically compatible - i.e. suitable for marriage and procreation.

A bit of googling (I can’t back up the science on this, mind - it seems to be just speculation) shows that some researchers do indeed believe this might be the case:
how you judge a potential mate’s smell [picked up from saliva via kissing] may indicate whether his immune system or general genetic makeup is similar to yours.
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These chemical signals might join other cues we get from the closeness and intimacy of kissing and combine to give an instant, hard-wired impression of whether this person is the right one with whom to mate. “When you get a highly intelligent, pair-bonding species that requires years to raise a baby, you evolve more and more brain mechanisms to weed out the losers and find out what works for you,”
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Hope this helps!
 
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