If your GF or BF wanted to save kissing for marriage

[ToeInTheWater]

BTW I voted “Continue the relationship and respect the person’s physical boundaries”.

I was inspired to post this poll due to the debates about the Duggar courtship practices. As you may know, the Duggars who have gotten married so far (Josh, Jill, Jessa) all did not kiss their significant others until after the wedding vows.

In general I have agreed with the posters who state their courtship practices are too extreme, especially as the couples are also chaperoned at all times and don’t even hold hands until engagement, or have “frontal hugs” before marriage.

On the other hand, some of the arguments used by those who disagree with the physical boundaries the Duggars follow, about the importance of physical attraction and not wanting to “go from 0 to 60” on the wedding night, also strike me as not that different from arguments used to denigrate saving sexual intercourse for marriage as well.

 

[ialsop]

BTW I voted “Continue the relationship and respect the person’s physical boundaries”.

I was inspired to post this poll due to the debates about the Duggar courtship practices. As you may know, the Duggars who have gotten married so far (Josh, Jill, Jessa) all did not kiss their significant others until after the wedding vows.

In general I have agreed with the posters who state their courtship practices are too extreme, especially as the couples are also chaperoned at all times and don’t even hold hands until engagement, or have “frontal hugs” before marriage.

On the other hand, some of the arguments used by those who disagree with the physical boundaries the Duggars follow, about the importance of physical attraction and not wanting to “go from 0 to 60” on the wedding night, also strike me as not that different from arguments used to denigrate saving sexual intercourse for marriage as well.

Hmm…kissing needs to be defined. Either way, I would respect the other’s wishes, but whether I would personally make such boundires myself depends on your definition of kissing.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I would like to think I would continue the relationship but honestly I’d probably give it some time before ending it. This plus the rules about physical contact (side hugs, etc) would be a fundamental compatibility issue. It would lead me to believe that the level of physical affection we each desire may be irreconcilable. It would be unknowable until marriage as she wouldn’t truly know without that type of dating experience.

 

[Xantippe]

On the other hand, some of the arguments used by those who disagree with the physical boundaries the Duggars follow, about the importance of physical attraction and not wanting to “go from 0 to 60” on the wedding night, also strike me as not that different from arguments used to denigrate saving sexual intercourse for marriage as well.

I’m in the pro-kissing camp (at least for serious relationships), and I may have used some of the arguments you mention, but

1. I think that kissing (even passionate kissing) is quite distinct from intercourse and I think that kissing and intercourse express different levels of commitment, not the same one.
2. A mismatch in libido or attitude toward closeness or touch can be a major problem, and kissing is a safe (and reasonably reliable) way to “take the temperature” and evaluate if the other person’s attitude toward physical expressions of love is compatible with yours. If A is passionate and B is stiff as a board and doesn’t like being touched at all, a marriage between them may not be very happy.
3. I know for a fact that kissing (even passionate kissing) is not some sort of inevitable toboggan-ride toward having sex.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Hmm…kissing needs to be defined. Either way, I would respect the other’s wishes, but whether I would personally make such boundires myself depends on your definition of kissing.

Well, courting couples who follow the “Duggar rules” do not practice ANY kissing, not even a kiss on the cheek or “peck on the lips” type kissing. They also do not practice hand-holding, or “full frontal hugging”. According to Michelle Duggar’s own TLC blog, at one point there was even a family discussion whether a couple “high-fiving” was acceptable. Pretty much the only physical contact found acceptable is the “side hug” in which the woman hugs the man from the side. I think this is certainly much too restrictive.

Xantippe, I certainly agree that kissing is much less intimate than sexual intercourse, and to clarify, I don’t think it is sinful for most couples though I do think “French” kissing using tongues might be too arousing for some people. It seems some Catholics believe “passionate” kissing is at the very least an occasion for sin, I’ve seen some posters push the idea that “if you wouldn’t do it in front of your grandmother, don’t do it”. Though granted, such restrictive advice seems to be most directed at teenagers (who many think shouldn’t be dating in the first place), not people old enough to discern marriage.

 

[ialsop]

Well, courting couples who follow the “Duggar rules” do not practice ANY kissing, not even a kiss on the cheek or “peck on the lips” type kissing. They also do not practice hand-holding, or “full frontal hugging”. According to Michelle Duggar’s own TLC blog, at one point there was even a family discussion whether a couple “high-fiving” was acceptable. Pretty much the only physical contact found acceptable is the “side hug” in which the woman hugs the man from the side. I think this is certainly much too restrictive.

Xantippe, I certainly agree that kissing is much less intimate than sexual intercourse, and to clarify, I don’t think it is sinful for most couples though I do think “French” kissing using tongues might be too arousing for some people. It seems some Catholics believe “passionate” kissing is at the very least an occasion for sin, I’ve seen some posters push the idea that “if you wouldn’t do it in front of your grandmother, don’t do it”. Though granted, such restrictive advice seems to be most directed at teenagers (who many think shouldn’t be dating in the first place), not people old enough to discern marriage.

Well, yes, I agree that is ridiculous. The kissing I would restrict would be, I guess, “making out”.

 

[Xantippe]

Xantippe, I certainly agree that kissing is much less intimate than sexual intercourse, and to clarify, I don’t think it is sinful for most couples though I do think “French” kissing using tongues might be too arousing for some people.It seems some Catholics believe “passionate” kissing is at the very least an occasion for sin, I’ve seen some posters push the idea that “if you wouldn’t do it in front of your grandmother, don’t do it”. Though granted, such restrictive advice seems to be most directed at teenagers (who many think shouldn’t be dating in the first place), not people old enough to discern marriage.

The grandma argument would seem to cover any very intimate or private conversation–for instance discussions of what you really think about your brother-in-law, what your parents always had fights about, or how you want to bring your kids up differently than your parents did you.

I would personally find any number of discussions of Catholic doctrine awkward to have in front of my Protestant grandma.

So, I don’t think the grandma test for kissing is infallible (particularly for older couples, as you mention).

 

[ialsop]

The grandma argument would seem to cover any very intimate or private conversation–for instance discussions of what you really think about your brother-in-law, what your parents always had fights about, or how you want to bring your kids up differently than your parents did you.

I would personally find any number of discussions of Catholic doctrine awkward to have in front of my Protestant grandma.

So, I don’t think the grandma test for kissing is infallible (particularly for older couples, as you mention).

If you wouldnt do it in front of your best friend then…

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Honestly, I wonder if those kids really never kissed someone. And now would Jim Bob know if he wasn’t cc’ed to a text? You can delete a text before your phone is checked. Sorry, but kids find ways around rules. I’m sure a lot of parents think their kids are prefect little angels, when they really aren’t.

I’m a very affectionate person. I need physical contact to feel loved/important. I would break up with a non kisser.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I voted Other. I can see how such rules might apply in very conservative cultures.

However, if someone who was unsure asked me for advice, I may lean towards telling them to kiss someone they are discerning for a marriage partner. The reason is that I think there may be some element of compatibility involved.

We all just need to remember though (as someone else said) that “we are called even to guard our thoughts” when it comes to romantic relationships, let alone physical contact like kissing.

 

[adawgj]

I don’t really date. But if I was I couldn’t stand not kissing my hypothetical girlfriend.

Where is the connection? You can only go so far with emotional, spiritual, and something else connection for so long. You need some physical connection too.

 

[masondoggy]

I voted other because it would depend on his reason. If it was something that he felt he had to do because he was afraid of going too far or creating temptation, I could understand that. But if his reasons were because he felt that kissing before marriage was wrong or sinful, I would probably end it because our values would just be too different to make it work. It’s better to just walk away in that case.

 

[ialsop]

I voted other because it would depend on his reason. If it was something that he felt he had to do because he was afraid of going too far or creating temptation, I could understand that. But if his reasons were because he felt that kissing before marriage was wrong or sinful, I would probably end it because our values would just be too different to make it work. It’s better to just walk away in that case.

VERY wise point.

 

[Isca]

So basically, this Duggar family have arranged marriages, like many people from Asian cultures? They too don’t have physical contact before marriage - they are in effect marrying a stranger, but it’s their way of going about things.

Seems like the Duggars have the same beliefs. Sometimes I think that people who are so keen to prevent any normal, chaste, affectionate interaction have a rather unhealthy preoccupation with sexuality.

 

[Walking_Home]

I voted other because it would depend on his reason.** If it was something that he felt he had to do because he was afraid of going too far or creating temptation,** I could understand that. But if his reasons were because he felt that kissing before marriage was wrong or sinful, I would probably end it because our values would just be too different to make it work. It’s better to just walk away in that case.

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It would seem to me – if a kiss was enough for him to loose control of his passions – he would not be someone I’d recommend marrying.

 

[Walking_Home]

I voted other because it would depend on his reason.** If it was something that he felt he had to do because he was afraid of going too far or creating temptation,** I could understand that. But if his reasons were because he felt that kissing before marriage was wrong or sinful, I would probably end it because our values would just be too different to make it work. It’s better to just walk away in that case.

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It would seem to me – if a kiss was enough for him to loose control – he would not be someone I’d recommend marrying.

 

[Kamaduck]

So basically, this Duggar family have arranged marriages, like many people from Asian cultures? They too don’t have physical contact before marriage - they are in effect marrying a stranger, but it’s their way of going about things.

Seems like the Duggars have the same beliefs. Sometimes I think that people who are so keen to prevent any normal, chaste, affectionate interaction have a rather unhealthy preoccupation with sexuality.

I wouldn’t go that far. Just because you haven’t kissed someone doesn’t mean they’re a stranger to you. I don’t know that they’re actual arranged marriages.

As far as the poll… hm. Hard to picture myself with a boyfriend. But if, hypothetically, I did have one, I’d definitely want to kiss him before getting married. Not so much because physical touch is important to me, but because it’d probably be important to him, and I feel like there’s a serious risk of me having zero idea whether I actually enjoy kissing someone until kissing has already occurred. Given that this possibility actually concerns me quite a bit, I’d probably break it off if option #2 didn’t work.

It’d be kind of a bummer to get married to someone, kiss, and go “oh… was that supposed to be enjoyable?”

-]This is why I shouldn’t date people./-]

 

[TarkanAttila]

I want a soulmate before she would even enter my mind as a wife.

Kissing is not ordinarily an occasion for sin. But I think it would be more important to focus on spiritual development. Physical intimacy is OK, but whether it is there or not is less important.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Goodness Gracious me, this sounds just a little big bit Bizzar

 

[AnnArbor]

I’m in the pro-kissing camp (at least for serious relationships), and I may have used some of the arguments you mention, but

1. I think that kissing (even passionate kissing) is quite distinct from intercourse and I think that kissing and intercourse express different levels of commitment, not the same one.
2. A mismatch in libido or attitude toward closeness or touch can be a major problem, and kissing is a safe (and reasonably reliable) way to “take the temperature” and evaluate if the other person’s attitude toward physical expressions of love is compatible with yours. If A is passionate and B is stiff as a board and doesn’t like being touched at all, a marriage between them may not be very happy.
3. I know for a fact that kissing (even passionate kissing) is not some sort of inevitable toboggan-ride toward having sex.