If you're looking for a debate

[wcknight]

edwinG:

Hi wcknight,
God alone is what is attractive about my faith.And He sent Christ His only begotton Son is what is so attractive about my faith. And Christ sent God’s Holy and Almighty Spirit to us after He ascended so we wouldn’t be without Him, Christ. So now in my faith, I have Christ still, except as Spirit. My spiritual life is not muddled up by confusion . I have Him **alone, **as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Can you understand, Him alone. I dont need men’s wisdom, I need only Him. Christ is my teacher, the Holy Spirit leads me to where Christ wants to go. I cant see Christ but He is real and alive, I dont have all the thousands of rules made by men. I just follow Him. Christ wont lead me to a prostitute, or anywhere or to anything which is sin.( I still sin as I struggle to give up my will completely) My life is simple. He also leads me to peace,abundance and joy.
Why wont you listen to Him also. Life takes on a new meaning when you are under His wing.
walk in love
edwinG

The other problem with going at it alone, is how can you objectively check whether you are hearing him properly. UNLESS you happen to have studied scriptures for many years, you do not have a theological backgraound. You do not have the historical and cultural expertise to corrent interpret what the writers of scriptures correctly.

You may be right most of the time. But you are subject to your own biases and prejudices. IF you happen to be a bigot or have some preconceived concept of morality your interpretation could be radically different from what it should be.

Hitler used scriptures to further his goal to exterminate the Jews. Slave owners in the Southe used scriptures to justify and extend slavery.

You could just as easily be a homicidal nutcase as you could be a very pious individual. No man is an island, and Christianity was meant to be a religion for communities as well as individuals. The first Christians did not go it alone, they lived in small somewhat socialistic communities.

We rely on God in our lives also, but Jesus gave us His Church and the Holy Spirit guides His Chruch to lead us. We pray as individuals and as a community. We pray for each other as Jesus commanded, and we ask Mary and the saints to pray for us as well.

Contrary to your views and other proetestants, Mary and the saints are not dead, they live on because God is the God of the living. They can and do pray for us as well.

There is so much that your go it alone faith is lacking that it is like some converts say, being Christian outside the Catholic Church is like trying to get accross the ocean to Heaven in a row boat. Being in the Catholic Church is like traveling in a luxury ocean liner. Come on aboard, it’s whole lot nicer.

wc

 

[edwinG]

wcknight:

The other problem with going at it alone, is how can you objectively check whether you are hearing him properly. UNLESS you happen to have studied scriptures for many years, you do not have a theological backgraound. You do not have the historical and cultural expertise to corrent interpret what the writers of scriptures correctly.

You may be right most of the time. But you are subject to your own biases and prejudices. IF you happen to be a bigot or have some preconceived concept of morality your interpretation could be radically different from what it should be.

Hitler used scriptures to further his goal to exterminate the Jews. Slave owners in the Southe used scriptures to justify and extend slavery.

You could just as easily be a homicidal nutcase as you could be a very pious individual. No man is an island, and Christianity was meant to be a religion for communities as well as individuals. The first Christians did not go it alone, they lived in small somewhat socialistic communities.

We rely on God in our lives also, but Jesus gave us His Church and the Holy Spirit guides His Chruch to lead us. We pray as individuals and as a community. We pray for each other as Jesus commanded, and we ask Mary and the saints to pray for us as well.

Contrary to your views and other proetestants, Mary and the saints are not dead, they live on because God is the God of the living. They can and do pray for us as well.

There is so much that your go it alone faith is lacking that it is like some converts say, being Christian outside the Catholic Church is like trying to get accross the ocean to Heaven in a row boat. Being in the Catholic Church is like traveling in a luxury ocean liner. Come on aboard, it’s whole lot nicer.

wc

Hi wcknight,
Thank you for the kind invitation. Currently I am a member of a small church which is pentacostal. The preacher is a wise man, who preaches with humility. I like him. We often have visiting preachers and some I agree with and some I disagree with on some basic points. I cant speak to most of the congregration as they are Thai, but I dont mind.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

RattleSnake:

Edwin,

I believe THIS thread is about an “anti-Catholic” website.

Now… if there were a thread that said… “share your story”… or … “let’s praise our Lord”… and so on…

You would find many many Catholics sharing their JOY and story… witnessing.

We are not doing that right now… we are discussing a website… and a type of thinking…one that I am finding you share as well.

Maybe YOU can start one of these “witnessing” threads in the SPIRITUALITY forum. You may learn something.

Or did you come here not to learn?

Vinko RattleSnake

Hi Vinko RattleSnake,
Be daring. Witness. I bet no will object, in fact I for one will be pleased and say so.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

wcknight:

Oh, I do listen to Him and He tells me NOT to listen to YOU !

When Jesus gave His disciples the power to forgive sins, He gave that power to their successors as well, He did not intend for us to forgive our own sins. We are to confess our sins to one of His ministers. IF He had wanted us to do that He would have said, ask your Father in Heaven to forgive your sins.

BUT instead He told His disciples “whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, whose sins you shall retain, they are retained”. He was not talking to each individual member of His CHruch, He was granting the power to forgive sins to His representatives. IT’s obvious your individualized, go it alone faith is all wrong.

wc

Hi wcknight,
Luke11:2 So He said to them, " when you pray, say,
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name
Your kingdom come
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us day by day our daily bread
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us,
And do not lead us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.

walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Deus Solus:

Edwin, God bless…I think you have a good heart and mean all the best in trying to tell others about your faith, but are going about it the wrong way.

You misunderstand that these forums are meant for people who have questions about issues of faith and wish to discuss them. Experiencing the joy of fellowshipping with other believers is integral to the faith, but internet forums are not necessarily the place for that.

Sharing joy is good. Telling others about the good you are doing and receiving their praise for it is not God’s intention (cf. Matthew 6:1-8).

Others’ indignant response to these statements, while not exhibiting Christ-like humility, is understandable. You are basing your judgments on your own “discerning”, which like anyone else’s Spirit-given capability for discerning is far from infallible. (cf. Matthew 7:1-5) You must understand that people come on these forums all the time to question the faith of the Catholics here, and arguments like yours have been heard many times before. Be careful and charitable in what you say.

Any Catholic would tell you that it is Christ’s work on the Cross alone that makes it possible for us to be reconciled to Him. It is not Mary or the saints who are the authors of salvation, that is not the Church’s teaching. You would do well to try to understand the Catholic position from a Catholic perspective before disparaging it. The website www.catholic.com has many good short tracts that you should read.

Edwin, I rejoice with you for the faith in Christ that you have found that infuses your life with such joy. Given the chance, I am sure the majority of the posters on this site would be able to give similar accounts of God’s grace working in their lives.

I would greatly encourage you to explore the teachings of the Catholic Church. Read the Church Fathers and listen to the joy with which they proclaim faith in Christ in the same breath that they exhort believers to follow in theology that is admittedly Catholic. Many of these believers wrote within 200 years of the death of the Apostle John, before the New Testament canon was even determined, and spoke of practices and beliefs that only the Catholic Church holds today. Read Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Irenaeus, and Justin Martyr among others…men who were Spirit-filled, and certain of God’s leading. Remember Jeremiah 29:13 and seek Him with all your heart. You may yet discover that the Catholic Church holds the fullness and richness of Christ’s teaching.

Hi Deus Solus,
Thank you for your kind post. It is sad if interner forums are not the place to share in the joy of the Lord. It is even sadder when people are so determined not to share. For most of this thread I have been asking for a witness. Not one. Do you wonder why?
I wonder why. Normally people who have received something free and wonderful want to share it. They are excited. Doing some work or receiving a teaching from Christ brings enormous joy. Living in the spirit means you must be in receipt of His blessings. How do you encourage a friend to ask for this free gift so they too can share in this gift. One is forced to think the minds here are locked down tight for a blizzard.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[vern_humphrey]

edwinG:

Hi Deus Solus,
Thank you for your kind post. It is sad if interner forums are not the place to share in the joy of the Lord. It is even sadder when people are so determined not to share. For most of this thread I have been asking for a witness. Not one. Do you wonder why?

You are surrounded (virtually speaking) by witnesses – and yet you fail to recognize it.

 

[wcknight]

edwinG:

Hi wcknight,
Luke11:2 So He said to them, " when you pray, say,
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name
Your kingdom come
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us day by day our daily bread
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us,
And do not lead us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.

walk in love
edwinG

Congrats, you know the Our Father also, We say the same prayer… AND is that supposed to negate Christ’s instructions to His disciples ???

God forgives us our sins, through our confessions to Christ’s representatives, not self confession to ourselves.

Sorry, that just doesn’t support your position at all.
wc

 

[wcknight]

edwinG:

Hi Deus Solus,
Thank you for your kind post. It is sad if interner forums are not the place to share in the joy of the Lord. It is even sadder when people are so determined not to share. For most of this thread I have been asking for a witness. Not one. Do you wonder why?
I wonder why. …

edwinG

This entire web site is witness to our faith in Jesus, you just fail to see the forest in front of your nose.

What is it that you are asking for ???

The only thing we’re wondering why about is, why do you come to a Catholic web site to convince us that we need to love God. We already do that ! and why on earth are you not becoming Catholic ? how can you settle for a faith that is missing half the Truth ?

Can you not see that the Holy Spirit is calling you to join us ? How can you question the honors and special gifts bestowed on Mary, the Holy Mother of God ? Are you possibly jealous of the honor and praise that we give to her ? Can you not see the hundreds and thousands of miracles and graces as result of her intervention ? Can you possibly be so proud that you want to question God’s right to grant special priviledges to His own mother. The perfect woman whom God created specifically to bear His only begotten Son.

What arrogance !

wc

 

[Church_Militant]

Matthew 6:1 “Take heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou dost an almsdeed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when thou dost alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doth. 4 That thy alms may be in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee. 5 And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.”

This is one of the most cherished aspects of Catholic Christianity. None of us want to do our good deeds for show before men. There are of course, times when it simply cannot be helped…like this whole subforum shows… forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 but that is because the action must be public in order to stand up for something that must be defended.

If you’re seeking a lot of warm fuzzy emotional “praise reports” or “testimonies”, and “witnesses”, you’ll find them from time to time scattered all over this forum. But we don’t just run around doing that like Pentecostals do (BY and large anyway…apologies to all Charismatic Catholics).
Pax vobiscum,

 

[edwinG]

wcknight:

This entire web site is witness to our faith in Jesus, you just fail to see the forest in front of your nose.

What is it that you are asking for ???

The only thing we’re wondering why about is, why do you come to a Catholic web site to convince us that we need to love God. We already do that ! and why on earth are you not becoming Catholic ? how can you settle for a faith that is missing half the Truth ?

Can you not see that the Holy Spirit is calling you to join us ? How can you question the honors and special gifts bestowed on Mary, the Holy Mother of God ? Are you possibly jealous of the honor and praise that we give to her ? Can you not see the hundreds and thousands of miracles and graces as result of her intervention ? Can you possibly be so proud that you want to question God’s right to grant special priviledges to His own mother. The perfect woman whom God created specifically to bear His only begotten Son.

What arrogance !

wc

Hi wcknight,
Obviously if you dont understand you dont. No I havent been made aware of the hundreds and thousands of miracles and graces as result of her intervention. But I am aware that she is active, but not the extent. It chills me to the bone. I am very fearful for you. Jesus Christ is the only name with authority.All honor is to go to Him.
Thank you for reading my posts.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Church Militant:

Matthew 6:1 “Take heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou dost an almsdeed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when thou dost alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doth. 4 That thy alms may be in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee. 5 And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.”

This is one of the most cherished aspects of Catholic Christianity. None of us want to do our good deeds for show before men. There are of course, times when it simply cannot be helped…like this whole subforum shows… forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 but that is because the action must be public in order to stand up for something that must be defended.

If you’re seeking a lot of warm fuzzy emotional “praise reports” or “testimonies”, and “witnesses”, you’ll find them from time to time scattered all over this forum. But we don’t just run around doing that like Pentecostals do (BY and large anyway…apologies to all Charismatic Catholics).
Pax vobiscum,

Hi Church Militant,
No I would never want to ask about anyone’s good deeds. I have never known anyone to ask that question. It puzzles me why you bother to spend so much time on it.
2 Samuel 6:5 and 2 Samuel 6:14 Then David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was wearing a linen ephod 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting and with the sound of the trumpet. 6:16 Now as the ark of the Lord came into the City of David, Michal, Saul’s daughter. looked through a window and saw King David leaping and whirling before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart. 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, etc
( the Greek word suggests shouting and leaping with joy.
Acts 2;13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine”

Your words explain fully that you have not yet experienced the full joy of His presence. This joy far surpasses that which you engender in the Eucharist.
Yours will be a different story once that event occurs and you start listening to Him and obeying.Try it " Ask for Him."
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

wcknight:

Congrats, you know the Our Father also, We say the same prayer… AND is that supposed to negate Christ’s instructions to His disciples ???

God forgives us our sins, through our confessions to Christ’s representatives, not self confession to ourselves.

Sorry, that just doesn’t support your position at all.
wc

wcknight,
The Lord’s prayer is not a self confession. God is alive. He hears. IT is a confession to Him. Note the start. Our Father.

Your assertion that this is a self confession disregards that God is capable of hearing. You have taken Him out of the equation.
I hope you are just being prideful and not truthful.
I am not denying that we can confess to one another.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

vern humphrey:

You are surrounded (virtually speaking) by witnesses – and yet you fail to recognize it.

Hi Vern,
If you mean the members of this forum, yes and silent. They are all either “not bold” or “have nothing to report”.
If you have something at all that has happened in your life, why do you hide it. Do you prefer to cause dissention? Most of the messages here could have been averted simply by the members here saying they dont have anything to witness or to witness. That’s not difficult for ordinary folk.
You are unable or unwilling to help me.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[adstrinity]

First of all, let me blow a trumpet before men here and talk about myself and me.

That is NOT an anti-Catholic site, per se. It is a political site, one that I rather enjoy. If you notice the dialoging there & here between Catholic & Protestant, there are a lot of disagreements just on the language level. Some words do not mean the same things to the both of us.

Second of all, if you say DoctorDoom mention it, he is a former Catholic. He has stated that he agrees more with the Catholic Chruch than the touchy-feely I’m okay/ You’re okay churches springing up. When not attacted/confronted, he seems not to feel threatened. I feel that we should all pray for this guy.

Third, yes, CzechPrince IS a wonder over there!!! EVERYBODY loves him…I think, except DoctorDoom, BUT, as DoctorDoom pointed out to me, these are the same arguements that people have posted before. I honestly don’t know why the original poster posted what he did, and, as you can see, some have replied with more charity than others…on both sides.

 

[TheGarg]

alfredo:

The scandals don’t help too much. Here’s some examples of questions a nonCatholic might be asking himself:
Is it better to confess to a priest who goes around giving talks and supporting the North American Man Boy Love Association, and ??!!, etc., or is it better to confess directly to God?
Is the true Church the one that has Catholic colleges such as Holy Cross College of Worcester, MA, celebrate Ash Wednesday by showing lewd plays such as the V_monologues, where a teen age girl attains her personal salvation by being initiated into lesbian activities by an older lady?
Is the true Chruch the one where priests write pornography, and use lewd blasphemous language and expressions in their writings, such as we see from the CAtholic priest, FAther Andrew Greeley?
Questions being raised about lurid scandals at Catholic seminaries.

and you somehow dont think “preacher bob” never gets alittle too friendly with the kiddies in prot churches, you had bettter think again…these incedents to not incompass a church, nor are charcteristic of it, just some flawed members…

these arguments are really lame…

 

[TheGarg]

Hospitaller:

If you’re interested in sharpening your debating skills, then you should check out this site. There’s a bloke there by the name of Doctor Doom who fancies himself a past master at debating Catholics. If you want have a go at debating him though, be warned: He’s a terminal case basically, who’ll attempt to dismiss any point you make out of hand.

Good apologetics workout though.

I have been reading his posts, and he is a master of nothing…he is a lot of bully, and a liar and a twister of scripture. He refutes the very church that gave him his precious scripture…more or less an idiot really… and with some real issues…look for my character…“TheCatholicGarg”…I make him wish he was Catholic…

 

[Deus_Solus]

TheGarg:

I have been reading his posts, and he is a master of nothing…he is a lot of bully, and a liar and a twister of scripture.

He does seem to have a good grasp on a lot of anti-Catholic arguments. You’re right though, when he comes across a point particularly troubling to his position, he dismisses it as “specious piffle”. Its not really a “debate” unless both parties are actually willing to engage the arguments of the other side.

 

[kbirck]

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church, of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

 

[The_Black_Knight]

I’m thinking it might be funny to refer Von Doom to this thread. I bet He’d like it a lot .

 

[The_Black_Knight]

adstrinity:

Third, yes, CzechPrince IS a wonder over there!!! EVERYBODY loves him…I think, except DoctorDoom, BUT, as DoctorDoom pointed out to me, these are the same arguements that people have posted before. I honestly don’t know why the original poster posted what he did, and, as you can see, some have replied with more charity than others…on both sides.

Is CzechPrince a member here? If not maybe some one should invite him here.