"If you're not pro life you shouldn't be here."

[cathdoki]

I would politely suggest that you aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by telling them they are pro-murder if they classify themselves as pro-choice. It may make you feel better about yourself and you may believe it accurately reflects their position, but it would immediately put them on the defensive and mitigate anything further you had to say. What is your goal? To feel better about yourself, or to change hearts and minds?

As an old priest I used to have would say,

We will only change peoples hearts and minds about the horror of abortion through PRAYER.

We won’t do through arrogance. As we all know, this past Sunday’s gospel was about compassion. This priest was not only uncompassionate toward the OP, but plain old rude. And he did it in front of the tabernacle.

 

[cathdoki]

It’s not a litmus test.

This is all pretty funny, as if anyone goes to his confessional, for penance he could just bind you to do it, and that would be that – would anyone argue his authority to do it then?

Considering priests used to make you sit outside the church in sackcloth and ashes… sometimes for years…

I think the authority argument has weight and deserves further speculation rather than dismissing out of hand.

Here so many people want stronger teaching from the pulpit, but the minute the priest tries something, “OH NO!”

NO PRIEST CAN BIND YOU TO SPEND MONEY. Do I detect a pharisee?

 

[JRPO]

I would politely suggest that you aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by telling them they are pro-murder if they classify themselves as pro-choice. It may make you feel better about yourself and you may believe it accurately reflects their position, but it would immediately put them on the defensive and mitigate anything further you had to say. What is your goal? To feel better about yourself, or to change hearts and minds?

You can’t be pro-murder and call yourself Catholic. To be Catholic you have to be fully in accord with the Catholic Church the Catholic Church says so.If your not fully in accord your not Catholic.Its not about having a goal or making yourself feel better you just have to state the facts.

 

[cathdoki]

It’s not a litmus test.

This is all pretty funny, as if anyone goes to his confessional, for penance he could just bind you to do it, and that would be that – would anyone argue his authority to do it then?

Considering priests used to make you sit outside the church in sackcloth and ashes… sometimes for years…

I think the authority argument has weight and deserves further speculation rather than dismissing out of hand.

Here so many people want stronger teaching from the pulpit, but the minute the priest tries something, “OH NO!”

Okay shin, I’m going to find a priest that tells you to sell your car, home, and all personal property except for one pair of clothing. Live as a pauper but continue to work (I’m assuming you do) but give every last cent to the poor. Your only meals will be from a soup kitchen.

What a silly idea you’ve set forth.

 

[CoffeeHound]

But anyone who thinks that they are Catholic and pro-abortion have one wrong. They are either Catholic and Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion and Not Catholic.

A Catholic that supports abortion is still a Catholic. He or she would be a Catholic committing the sin of heresy and should not present him or herself for Communion, but he or she would still be Catholic.

It might seem like semantics, but consider what would happen if you told someone that they were “not Catholic” because they supported abortion. If they believed you, they might stop attending Mass and may never reconcile.

 

[cathdoki]

You can’t be pro-murder and call yourself Catholic. To be Catholic you have to be fully in accord with the Catholic Church the Catholic Church says so.If your not fully in accord your not Catholic.Its not about having a goal or making yourself feel better you just have to state the facts.

I don’t think anyone here is denying the evil of abortion. We’re talking about an arrogant priest who tells people to go and buy a vanity plate. Then turns his back on a parishioner. I’m glad he’s not my priest. I wonder if he’s going on his boat today.

 

[Sarah_Angel]

It’s not a litmus test.

This is all pretty funny, as if anyone goes to his confessional, for penance he could just bind you to do it, and that would be that – would anyone argue his authority to do it then?

Considering priests used to make you sit outside the church in sackcloth and ashes… sometimes for years…

I think the authority argument has weight and deserves further speculation rather than dismissing out of hand.

Here so many people want stronger teaching from the pulpit, but the minute the priest tries something, “OH NO!”

Pardon my extreme example, but if a priest molested a young boy, does that mean that it was OK for him to do so just because he’s a priest and has higher authority?

Just because a priest is ordained to ministry and has the authority to give the sacraments to people, it doesn’t mean that his every action, no matter how well-intentioned, is good. A priest is still a sinner. A priest is still susceptible to pride and arrogance, and he is more susceptible to it when his prayer life isn’t the primary focus of his ministry.

Your last statement is judgmental toward the OP and anyone else who believes that the priest made a legitimate mistake. I am very grateful for the strong teachings I receive at Mass, but if my conscience cannot agree with something said in a homily, then I ponder the confusion, pray about it, and look to the Church’s teaching as a guide.

 

[cathdoki]

A Catholic that supports abortion is still a Catholic. He or she would be a Catholic committing the sin of heresy and should not present him or herself for Communion, but he or she would still be Catholic.

It might seem like semantics, but consider what would happen if you told someone that they were “not Catholic” because they supported abortion. If they believed you, they might stop attending Mass and may never reconcile.

You my friend are absolutely correct!

 

[puzzleannie]

"I wonder, could this have been a demon sent to drive people away from the Church?

there are certainly demons at work trying to turn people away from God’s teaching if that is your question. If more priests were in your face about this issue more Catholics would return to that teaching. When you see this priest again, shake his hand for me.

 

[smithm29]

A license plate is not going to stop or reduce the number of abortions. If it was that easy, it would be over by now and we wouldn’t even have to have a discussion about abortion at all. What a license plate or bumper sticker does is identify you as pro-life. There’s some value in that identification, but choosing not to identify that way is not a sin. That’s a pretty ridiculous assertion.

I think that if I were somehow embarrassed about being pro-life (or scared to talk about it), it would be perfectly reasonable for a priest to tell me to buy a bumper sticker or a license plate. That’s the only case where I can see that this would be appropriate.

 

[Shin]

I think a parish parking lot full of pro-life plates would be an incredibly beautiful witness, and remind people everywhere that to be Catholic is to be pro-life and give courage to those who are on the cross-roads.

Also the additional moneys in some states go only to pro-life counselling services for women considering an abortion.

Considering how all Hell is raised anytime pro-life license plates are proposed, and it’s very difficult to get a state to have them, it’s obvious that Something thinks they’re a very bad (read: VERY GOOD) thing.

Like crucifixes in public squares… Jesus mentioned in public prayer…

It’s public witness. And that is a good thing.

And yes, it could save a child’s life.

A priest is the spiritual father of his parish. As a child listens to his real father… you should respect your priest…

There is a Father behind them both.

 

[estesbob]

A Catholic that supports abortion is still a Catholic. He or she would be a Catholic committing the sin of heresy and should not present him or herself for Communion, but he or she would still be Catholic.

It might seem like semantics, but consider what would happen if you told someone that they were “not Catholic” because they supported abortion. If they believed you, they might stop attending Mass and may never reconcile.

Actually the opposite is true. We have way to many catholics who tell us its OK to support abortion with ones vote. Its is about time Priests made it crystal clear that a Catholic can not support abortion either directly or remotely. i disagee with the priest about having to buy a vanity plate but he was right on about the rest.

We had a visiting Priest who flat out said it was a Mortal sin to have voted for Obama. The people in the cogregation who had Obama bumper stickers were not happy but I was glad someone pointed out the consequences of their actions.

 

[cathdoki]

there are certainly demons at work trying to turn people away from God’s teaching if that is your question. If more priests were in your face about this issue more Catholics would return to that teaching. When you see this priest again, shake his hand for me.

How can you possibly see a priest turning his back on a parishioner as being productive? How can you possibly see a priest telling people that they should go out and get a particular vanity plate? I think he’s rude. Abortion is a terrible evil. That priest had many better ways to get that across. ARROGANCE on his part.

I just saw him on his boat.

 

[ProVobis]

Of course there’s always the possibility that the priest was taking a cut from the company that makes those plates or something.

I was thinking of the same thing.

That said, I agree with OP’s sentiments. And there are plenty of ways of showing one is pro-life other than contributing where others tell you to contribute. I used to donate to a pro-life cause which got sued. Guess where the money ended up going?

 

[Sarah_Angel]

I used to donate to a pro-life cause which got sued. Guess where the money ended up going?

I am weary about the pro-life organizations to donate to, myself. Some organizations even trick you into donating for pro-abortion causes.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Actually the opposite is true. We have way to many catholics who tell us its OK to support abortion with ones vote. Its is about time Priests made it crystal clear that a Catholic can not support abortion either directly or remotely. i disagee with the priest about having to buy a vanity plate but he was right on about the rest.

I’m not saying that Church leaders should be lax on the issue. They should clearly state the Church’s definitively taught truths, clearly state that any belief to the contrary is heresy, and inform that those who support abortion should not present them selves for Communion, as they are not in good standing with the Catholic Church. They could even mention excommunication citing Canon 1364.

However, no one should tell them that they are not Catholic, as they they are still Catholic. To do so would only be an attempt to drive a wedge between that person and the Church.

 

[Chatter163]

I am weary about the pro-life organizations to donate to, myself. Some organizations even trick you into donating for pro-abortion causes.

What exactly does this mean?

 

[cathdoki]

I’m not saying that Church leaders should be lax on the issue. They should clearly state the Church’s definitively taught truths, clearly state that any belief to the contrary is heresy, and inform that those who support abortion should not present them selves for Communion, as they are not in good standing with the Catholic Church. They could even mention excommunication citing Canon 1364.

However, no one should tell them that they are not Catholic, as they they are still Catholic. To do so would only be an attempt to drive a wedge between that person and the Church.

Exactly!

 

[Marie5890]

Christ came and sat, ate, socialized with sinners. He didn’t hang all that often with the religious leaders of the time.

Sometimes we need to remember that as we keep Our Lord in the equation of our lives…as we evaluate what is going on around us…

He of course never condoned sin and always loved sinners…

I think sometimes we tend to alienate the very people the Lord would have us help save and heal by helping them come to Christ’s healing wellspring…

It’s not helpful…

 

[cathdoki]

What exactly does this mean?

I believe it means that there are some charities that contribute to anti-abortion groups, but also contribute to Planned Parenthood. That was recently discussed on the Catholic Channel on Sirius XM.

Is that some of what you’re referring to, Sarah_Angel?

A very valid point.