Ignatius and Irenaeus

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Ok I understand Tertullian is not to be listen to, if I am correct. But Irenaus and Ignatius. Are they “Fathers of the church”? They are saints aren’t they. Are they both saint in the Catholic church and the Orthodox church?
 
billcu1 said:
Ok I understand Tertullian is not to be listen to, if I am correct. But Irenaus and Ignatius. Are they “Fathers of the church”? They are saints aren’t they. Are they both saint in the Catholic church and the Orthodox church?
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It’s not true Tertullian is not to be listened to. Tertullian has valuable writings from his orthodox period. You need to be careful with writings from his Montanist period, and the waffling period (what Jurgens calls his semi-Montanist period).

Saints Ignatius of Antioch and Irenaeus of Lyons are orthodox.
 
St. Irenaeus of Lyons/Lyon (France – back then it was Colonia Copia Claudia Augusta Lugdunum in Gaul) was a bishop sent to Gaul from Asia Minor, right after the previous bishop and a lot of the flock got martyred in the arena. Irenaeus was a disciple of St. Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostles.

He is one of -the- Fathers of the Church, and also is called an “Apostolic Father,” because he was a disciple of an Apostle’s disciple.

St. Ignatius was also a disciple of an Apostle’s disciple, or close to it, and he was a contemporary of St. Polycarp. And an Apostolic Father and Church Father.

And yup, Tertullian was great until he lost it. But there are some danger signals along the way. Still, he was a good teacher and had a sense of humor (until he lost that, too). He wrote a large chunk of essay about how impractical the traditional Roman formalwear was, and how much he hated shoes, boots, and togas. He had to wear all that stuff to practice law in the courts.
 
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Was he a heretic? Excommunicated, or an apostate? Tertullian I mean.
 
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You have to exercise some care with St Ignatius because of what happened to his letters. There is no question that he wrote letters, but greatly expanded versions of them were circulated for hundreds of years. This has mostly been resolved, thanks to historical criticism, but older writings might reject St Ignatius because of these additions, or rely too heavily on sections that are not from him.

Nothing wrong with him. He was a great saint, whose name has been tarnished by the people who remembered him falsely.
 
These two saints, don’t we as Catholics recognize them? I thought all the saints were recognized by the catholic church. But not all that we accept are recognized by the Eastern rite.
 
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billcu1 said:
These two saints, don’t not as Catholics recognize them? I thought all the saints were recognized by the catholic church. But not all that we accept are recognized by the Eastern rite.
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Of course we do. That’s why I called them Saints Ignatius and Irenaeus.
 
I guess I have my own personal favorite saints, Paul of course, Who went from persecutor to Apostle. And John Vianney, Polycarp. They say Vianney talked to Satan. Don’t want to drift OT.
 
billcu1 said:
Ok I understand Tertullian is not to be listen to, if I am correct. But Irenaus and Ignatius. Are they “Fathers of the church”? They are saints aren’t they. Are they both saint in the Catholic church and the Orthodox church?
Click to expand...
Tertullian is referenced 15 times times in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/4C.HTM
He was not canonized because he became a Montanist.

Ignatius (24 times):
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/SZ.HTM

Irenaeus (32 times):
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/MV.HTM
 
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Oh. Someone told me if I understood right. He died outside of the
church. IDK if he was excommunicated, does an excommunication mean
you are “out of heaven” or does it just tell you you are wrong.
 
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billcu1 said:
Oh. Someone told me if I understood right. He died outside of the
church. IDK if he was excommunicated, does an excommunication mean
you are “out of heaven” or does it just tell you you are wrong.
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The Church does not know if there was a change of heart before his death, but does not canonize him.
 
The Liturgy of Hours also contains some of Tertullian’s writings. Had one during Lent.
 
We can and certainly should pray for Tertullian; but he seems to have died a Montanist, poor guy. (He seems to have had some tragedies in his life that may have driven him towards rigorism and weird stuff.)

St. Ignatius of Antioch’s day in the Roman Rite is Oct. 17.

St. Irenaeus is June 28.

(Different days in the East.)
 
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No issues with St Ignatius and St Iraneus. I also have a lot of respect for Origen. He is said to have had heretical ideas because of writings of his that came to light after he died, but during his life he didn’t promote them, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
If Tertullian died a Montanist, he almost certainly went to Helena.

(Sorry, Mintaka. Couldn’t resist.)
 
What about Sheoul or Gehenna. Jesus actually talked about?
 
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