Ignorance and evolution

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Science was tightly censored by states like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
I was commenting more on the social aspects that the science of Darwin (and followers, etc) unleashed - not the science itself.

And to be fair, there were many eugenics programs in the US at the turn of the 20th century, at least loosely based on survival of the fittest. Perhaps it was all those creationists (or at least anti-Darwinists) who tended to slow things down here.
 
It’s funny you should say that. Darwin has reigned in our primary and secondary educational systems since before I was in grade school in the 50’s.
Darwin has reigned? :eek:

Then how come so few people in the US actually understand evolution or many other basic scientific principals?
And it reigned quite well in Germany in the years leading up to WW2.
Godwin’s Law!
I win! 😉
Funny how that turned out.
Hilarious

N.B. Science has also been well taught in Germany since WW2

…and in Japan an India and China and…

What was your point again?
I’ll assume, though, that this is not the thing you’re worried about.
of course I’m worried about a well educated population
 
I doubt that struggle will be won or lost on message boards, though.
True

It will be waged on the local school board level and in the textbook selection committees of the states large enough to have major book purchasing power

The fundamentalists have been pursuing those means for quite awhile.

Fortunately the Kansas and Dover cases were defeats for them.
 
Darwin has reigned? :eek:

Then how come so few people in the US actually understand evolution or many other basic scientific principals?
Perhaps for the same reason that although English is taught, History is taught, Mathematics is taught, etc…few people in the US actually understand these subjects either.
Hilarious
Instead of saying “Funny how that turned out”, it would have been better to have said “And we all know how badly that turned out.” Sorry if I offended anyone.

[aside - you identify your location as the low country. Are you in the Netherlands, or some other low country?]
N.B. Science has also been well taught in Germany since WW2

…and in Japan an India and China and…

What was your point again?
Well, let’s see. Japan also had mass eugenics programs - in China.

China (until VERY recently) had a pro-abortion policy limiting families to one child.

It is not uncommon in these countries to kill infants who are not perfect in some respect…like being female for example.

So, I guess we all know how badly things turned out in those countries.
of course I’m worried about a well educated population
But not so well educated that they should know something about the philosophies accepted by a large number of people, over a very large time period?
 
[aside - you identify your location as the low country. Are you in the Netherlands, or some other low country?]
The Low Country (AKA the Slow Country for impatient Yankee retirees) is the local name for the coastal regions of South Carolina and Georgia. The northern extreme near Myrtle Beach is sometimes called the “Golden Strand” while the southern end in Georgia is sometimes called the “Costal Empire”

It is a land of shrimp, Spanish moss, and pine trees.

The biggest similarity with the Netherlands is the altitude.
 
I was commenting more on the social aspects that the science of Darwin (and followers, etc) unleashed - not the science itself.
The idea that all men were entitled to rights, regardless of their abilities? That was the one social position Darwin publicly took. That seems to be a good thing to me. Creationsts, particularly in the US, were arguing that some people were not entitled to equal rights. You’re telling me that you think the civil rights movement was evil?
And to be fair, there were many eugenics programs in the US at the turn of the 20th century, at least loosely based on survival of the fittest.
You think the Spartans, Romans, and many other ancient peoples were Darwinists? They had a tradition of removing the “unfit” when they were born. No, any ideology will serve when you are inclined to evil, and any can be twisted to evil purpose.

Consider that slavery was widely defended as being ordained by God. Shall we blame God for slavery?
Perhaps it was all those creationists (or at least anti-Darwinists) who tended to slow things down here.
After schools were integrated in the south, all the segregation academies were teaching creationism, so I think that’s unlikely.
 
The U.S. Supreme Court allowed for the forced sterilization of those deemed “unfit.”

And by the way, an educated population is not the same as an indoctrinated population.

Your comments on the Soviet Union are overly simplistic and prove only that you are here to defend Darwin/neo-Darwinism only, to the exclusion of all else. God appears to be tacked on only as part of packaging your remarks for possible consumption here.

Peace,
Ed
 
Ed writes:
Your comments on the Soviet Union are overly simplistic
Translation: Ed can’t deny that it’s true, but he’s uncomfortable being on the Soviet side, so he calls it “overly simplistic.”

Darwinism is always unpopular with dictators. It implies that humans aren’t easily changed to fit their ideologies. And it’s true. The Soviet Union collapsed because the “new socialist man” was impossible, as Darwinian theory implies.

You’ve become so obsessed with assailing science, that you’ve turned your back on the Church’s teaching whenever it didn’t fit your agenda.

It’s time to let God be God, Ed. Accept it His way and be content that He knows what He’s doing.
 
Indoctrination appears to be the name of your game, not Church teaching.

I cannot let God - as you conceive him - be the God described in Human Persons Created in the Image of God or the God described in Humani Generis. You have a version of science you would like to sell here. God? An afterthought at the end of a post.

“We are not some, casual meaningles product of evolution.” Pope Benedict

I recommend not placing science ahead of the Church which has its own Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

God bless,
Ed
 
Indoctrination appears to be the name of your game, not Church teaching.
Ed, every time you lose an argument, you come out spitting and scratching. It reflects poorly on you.
I cannot let God - as you conceive him - be the God described in Human Persons Created in the Image of God or the God described in Humani Generis.
Too bad. God, as He is presented in Imago Dei, is a good and real God, Who is the Creator of our world, and our Maker.
You have a version of science you would like to sell here.
You have a dispute with the church over the way God managed creation. And you don’t like anyone reminding you about it. But it’s not my fault. Let God be God, Ed.

We are not some, casual meaningles product of evolution…Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Pope Benedict

We are, as he says, a product of evolution, but we are not some casual, meaningless product of evolution. Some cafeteria Catholics accept part of this teaching, but not all of it.

Don’t be a cafeteria Catholic, Ed.
 
We are not some, casual meaningles product of evolution…Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Pope Benedict

We are, as he says, a product of evolution, but we are not some casual, meaningless product of evolution. Some cafeteria Catholics accept part of this teaching, but not all of it.

Don’t be a cafeteria Catholic, Ed.
Barbarian,

Per your own quote “We are not some causal…” That’s definitive. “WE ARE NOT” But nonetheless, this is the agenda you push on these forums whether that is your actual intent or not.

And per your own quote “It is VIRTUALLY certain…” That is NOT definitive, as in, it leaves a lot of wiggle room. And you slander fellow Catholics because you are the expert, and they just don’t listen to you?

Are you Catholic, Barbarian? Your profile doesn’t say one way or the other.
 
Per your own quote:
Not mine, the Pope’s:

"We are not some causal meaningless product of evolution…Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Pope Benedict"
That’s definitive.
Yep. We are evolved from other organisms, but we are not a casual meaningless product of evolution. Cafeteria Catholics refuse to accept all of the Church’s teaching.
“WE ARE NOT”
Our evolution from other organisms is, as the Pope says, “virtually certain.” But that doesn’t mean we are a meaningless, casual product of evolution.
But nonetheless, this is the agenda you push on these forums whether that is your actual intent or not.
Absolutely it is. I recognize that we are evolved from other creatures, but like the Pope, I deny that this fact says we are mere, meaningless products of evolution. This is the teaching of the Church, and I accept it. All of it. Not everyone here does, um?
And per your own quote “It is VIRTUALLY certain…” That is NOT definitive, as in, it leaves a lot of wiggle room.
As sure as anything you can get in science. Virtually certain.
And you slander fellow Catholics
Oh, rubbish. I criticize those who pick and chose what part of the magisterium they will accept. Rightly so.
Are you Catholic, Barbarian?
Yep. Baptized, confirmed, married, and living as a Roman Catholic.
 
Science has become your god. It is always first. It matters more than anything. That’s one reason you push it so hard. And God? Just a footnote. Science is more important to you.

And the common tool of propaganda, repetition. Church teaching? No. Darwin first.

Peace,
Ed
 
As sure as anything you can get in science. Virtually certain.
Magesterial pronouncements don’t use terms like “virtually certain.”

“It is virtually certain that Christ rose from the dead.” No, they would be more certain than that.
 
Magesterial pronouncements don’t use terms like “virtually certain.”
No kidding. You can be absolutely sure of God. But you can only say that the evidence overwhelmingly supports common descent. That’s the difference between religion and science.
 
Science has become your god.
When creationists run out of excuses, they always become angry and abusive, and hurl false accusations. You’re true to the type.

Creationism has become so important to you, that you deny those parts of the Church’s teachings that accept evolution.
 
No kidding. You can be absolutely sure of God. But you can only say that the evidence overwhelmingly supports common descent. That’s the difference between religion and science.
So the magesterium is now declaring scientific dogma? So how does this fit into the faith and morals category? Note: it doesn’t.

Face it Barbarian, you have a horse in this race, and you’ve bet a lot on the outcome. You’ve spent your life learning, using, explaining, and promoting “evolution by unguided [random] mutation, and natural selection.” You call yourself an expert in this subject (and I have no doubt that you are). The rest of us by comparison have only a casual interest in the exact scientific mechanism by which God created man. But it is your life. It is what you are. You have become your work. And your work is the preferred tool of the atheists. It must be tough (really - no sarcasm here).

We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
 
So the magesterium is now declaring scientific dogma?
Nope. As the Pope says, the Church has an interest in evolution, since it touches on the origin of humans. And the church says that evolutionary theory that does not deny God is compatible with our faith.
Face it Barbarian, you have a horse in this race, and you’ve bet a lot on the outcome.
It must be galling to those who have another horse in the race, to see that the Pope hasn’t supported their choice. I am not unsympathetic, but at some point, you have to reconcile to reality, and the teaching of the Church.
You’ve spent your life learning, using, explaining, and promoting “evolution by unguided [random] mutation, and natural selection.”
Knowing about the issue does tend to give you a better understanding, yes. If you did what the Pope did (find out about the issues) it would be much easier for you to accept the facts.
You call yourself an expert in this subject
Nope. Never did that.
(and I have no doubt that you are). The rest of us by comparison have only a casual interest in the exact scientific mechanism by which God created man. But it is your life. It is what you are. You have become your work. And your work is the preferred tool of the atheists.
Nonsense. You’ll notice that no scientist says that science disproves God. Not even Dawkins will say that. It’s time to put that kind of paranoia aside. Trust that the Pope is right when he says that truth cannot contradict truth.

Follow the truth wherever it leads. If you are a Christian, you have nothing to fear from it. Trust Him, and there will be nothing left to fear in the truth.
 
Catholics are not allowed to accept atheistic evolution.
“Atheistic science” is an oxymoron. As the Pope says, when anyone tries to use science to deny God, they have left the proper place of science.

Once you realize that, your fears of science will no longer rule you.
 
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