Ignorance?

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I still don’t understand this doctrine. How do you discern whether or not a person is invincibly ignorant? Then, if a person is ignorant and can get to heaven, why preach the Gospel, which could damn the person soul to hell since he/she has received the knowledge of truth? Also If wwe believe the ignorant can be saved, what about evangelization, and missionaries?
 
Isn’t that doctrine one not of someone who is not searching for God, but of someone who is indeed searching for God and thinks he is on the right path, doing what he thinks he needs for salvation? It is my understanding that it doesn’t cover those who simply do not look for God, for it is in the nature of our souls to look for Him. It only covers those who are doing everything they think they have to, and putting their faith in God.
 
I still don’t understand this doctrine. How do you discern whether or not a person is invincibly ignorant? Then, if a person is ignorant and can get to heaven, why preach the Gospel, which could damn the person soul to hell since he/she has received the knowledge of truth? Also If wwe believe the ignorant can be saved, what about evangelization, and missionaries?
Well, the answer (admittedly a bit of a cop-out) is that it’s not for us to discern. God will when He judges the individual.

Our job is to try and instruct the ignorant, which is a work of mercy. The ignorant can be saved, yes, but that doesn’t mean God wants anybody to live in ignorance. He wants us to have the choice to follow Him or not of our own free will, with full knowledge.

God bless!
 
Ignorance isn’t a “get out of jail free” card, and you’re not subjecting the person to the risk of eternal damnation if you instruct them in the truth. As a child of God, they have a right to be informed, and as a member of Christ’s mystical body, we have a duty to inform and teach to the best of our ability, which includes steering them in the right direction to find out the truth if it’s above our capacity to impart.
 
How do you discern whether or not a person is invincibly ignorant? Then, if a person is ignorant and can get to heaven, why preach the Gospel, which could damn the person soul to hell since he/she has received the knowledge of truth? Also If wwe believe the ignorant can be saved, what about evangelization, and missionaries?
Here’s the sections on ignorance from the Catechism. Look them over
ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=ignorance&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

Some excerpts (emphasis mine)

1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.

1791 ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

Re: invincible ignorance.
· If we were talking of subject matters that required a very high I.Q., to understand, (like high levels of math and science for example) then anyone below that required I.Q. level, would have a tough time understanding the subject matter…true?. To a lesser or greater degree then, depending on one’s I.Q., folks for the most part would be invincibly ignorant on the subject because no matter how hard they studied, they wouldn’t understand the subjects being taught…true?
· If one is mentally challenged, even simple matters are not going to be completely understood.

Truth be told, all of us are ignorant about alot of things. It doesn’t mean we are invincibly ignorant about these things, only that there’s lots of things we don’t know but could know if we were taught about them.

Bottomline, regarding our faith imo, I think it’s tough for the mass majority of people, to qualify for invincible ignorance status. iow, One has to be real careful not to fool themselves into thinking they’re getting a pass on invincible ignorance, when they really might fall under #'s 1791 or 1859 above…
 
I still don’t understand this doctrine. How do you discern whether or not a person is invincibly ignorant? Then, if a person is ignorant and can get to heaven, why preach the Gospel, which could damn the person soul to hell since he/she has received the knowledge of truth? Also If wwe believe the ignorant can be saved, what about evangelization, and missionaries?
The underlying notion of “invincible ignorance” is flawed. The notion underlying the idea is that God is incapable of getting the Gospel to those He has chosen to save. Who would believe such a thing about the sovereign God of creation?
 
The underlying notion of “invincible ignorance” is flawed. The notion underlying the idea is that God is incapable of getting the Gospel to those He has chosen to save. Who would believe such a thing about the sovereign God of creation?
You’ve identified 2 issues

  1. *]invincible ignorance. It really DOES exist. As do other forms of ignorance
    *]God desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. 1 Tim 2:4] but that doesn’t translate into all will be saved, or God wouldn’t have given all the warnings and conditional statements He did in scripture about consequences for NOT doing what He wishes for us.
 
The underlying notion of “invincible ignorance” is flawed. The notion underlying the idea is that God is incapable of getting the Gospel to those He has chosen to save. Who would believe such a thing about the sovereign God of creation?
It certainly does not apply to those who consciously and deliberately reject Christ or the Catholic Church (the ONLY Church established by Christ and which he gave authority to).
 
The underlying notion of “invincible ignorance” is flawed. The notion underlying the idea is that God is incapable of getting the Gospel to those He has chosen to save. Who would believe such a thing about the sovereign God of creation?
it is impossible for it to be flawed since it is a doctrine of the Catholic Church which is protected by the Holy Spirit, if it is flawed, then you would be in big trouble because it would mean you are a protestant because of your own malice rather than ignorance…

anyone who has faith…a person who has rejected the Church has no faith since they reject the entire truth, by rejecting even a part of Catholic doctrine they exalt their own opinion above what is true, and by doing so, reject faith

thirdly, we are not to follow GOd in our own way but rather follow God in HIS way

with all that being said it is impossible to judge if someone is ignorant…for example is the truth REALLY beyond your grasp in spite of being informed of it? Or are you culpable for rejecting the Church because of your own sin and malice?
 
You’ve identified 2 issues

  1. *]invincible ignorance. It really DOES exist. As do other forms of ignorance
    *]God desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. 1 Tim 2:4] but that doesn’t translate into all will be saved, or God wouldn’t have given all the warnings and conditional statements He did in scripture about consequences for NOT doing what He wishes for us.

  1. I identified one issue, Steve, and that is the flaw in the idea of invincible ignorance.
 
anyone who has faith…a person who has rejected the Church has no faith since they reject the entire truth, by rejecting even a part of Catholic doctrine they exalt their own opinion above what is true, and by doing so, reject faith
And according to Hebrews 6:6, anyone who does that is lost forever. God doesn’t grant them repentance. Kinda makes one feel sorry for those who leave your church, and for reverts whose “repentance” isn’t genuine, according to that passage. 🤷
with all that being said it is impossible to judge if someone is ignorant…for example is the truth REALLY beyond your grasp in spite of being informed of it? Or are you culpable for rejecting the Church because of your own sin and malice?
Ah, the loophole…🙂
 
the gate to heaven is certainly narrow, thank God for the Church to show us the way, and may God grant us the humility to accept what is true and not invent what we wish out of our own imaginations
 
And according to Hebrews 6:6, anyone who does that is lost forever. God doesn’t grant them repentance. Kinda makes one feel sorry for those who leave your church, and for reverts whose “repentance” isn’t genuine, according to that passage. 🤷

Ah, the loophole…🙂
there is no loophole, because God knows whether you act out of ignorance or maliciousness, and you will be judged accordingly, also note that ignorance while saving you from punishment, does not, by itself, gain you a reward
 
So mentally challenged people for example, can understand any subject given them?
do honestly expect a protestant to make sense when it comes to theology while wearing his “catholics-are-always-wrong” glasses…in this case we have people disagreeing simply because it is a doctrine of the Church that is speaking pretty much about them
 
I identified one issue, Steve, and that is the flaw in the idea of invincible ignorance.
You said

"God is incapable of getting the Gospel to those He has chosen to save. Who would believe such a thing about the sovereign God of creation?"


  1. *]That’s not the definition of, or does it address invincible ignorance of an individual
    *]I chose to respond to your comment about “He has chosen to save” with “God desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. 1 Tim 2:4]” but that doesn’t translate into all will be saved, or God wouldn’t have given all the warnings and conditional statements He did in scripture about consequences for NOT doing what He wishes for us.

    I ask again, what about someone who is mentally challenged for example? Are you suggesting such a person has no block to learning and understanding?
 
do honestly expect a protestant to make sense when it comes to theology while wearing his “catholics-are-always-wrong” glasses…in this case we have people disagreeing simply because it is a doctrine of the Church that is speaking pretty much about them
Your argument is a “straw man,” Frank.
 
So mentally challenged people for example, can understand any subject given them?
It is God who brings the dead to life (Eph 2:1-5; 1 Cor 1:30), why do you worry about such trivial things?

With God, all things are possible Jesus Christ, (Mt 19:23-26).
 
there is no loophole, because God knows whether you act out of ignorance or maliciousness, and you will be judged accordingly, also note that ignorance while saving you from punishment, does not, by itself, gain you a reward
There is no such thing as ignorance of God (Rom 1:18-19).
 
You said

“God is incapable of getting the Gospel to those He has chosen to save. Who would believe such a thing about the sovereign God of creation?”
That’s not the definition of, or does it address invincible ignorance of an individual
Sure it does. If God is able to bring one nation against another nation (Is 10:5-15), then God is certainly able to bring missionaries to those He intends to save.
I chose to respond to your comment about “He has chosen to save” with “God desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. 1 Tim 2:4]” but that doesn’t translate into all will be saved, or God wouldn’t have given all the warnings and conditional statements He did in scripture about consequences for NOT doing what He wishes for us.
I ask again, what about someone who is mentally challenged for example? Are you suggesting such a person has no block to learning and understanding?
It is God who brings the dead to life (Eph 2:1-5; 1 Cor 1:30; Mt 19:23-26), why do you carry on so about such trivial things?
 
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