Ignorance?

[LSK]

Karin:

So the problem is that people have not been taught properly?
IF that is the case perhaps CCD and RCIA classes need to be reworked so people learn CORRECTLY!

Absolutely - for instance, in my parish we are under the direction of the the Franciscan University and the Marian Catechist Program. It has revitalized our RCIA and CCD programs the last five years. It is amazing what it has done to our parish. This year we have more people converting than any other parish in the Central Valley.

 

[Karin]

Breton:

Not just RCIA and CCD classes but seminaries as well. Why are our priest afraid to preach strongly?

IMHO they do not preach strongly because they are afraid to offend people! That means loosing parishioners which means less $$ in the collection basket.
I say who cares if you offend people, teach them what they need to know, tell them what they do not want to hear, this is their FAITH and they NEED to HEAR IT!!!
Just my 2cents…

 

[Karin]

LSK:

Absolutely - for instance, in my parish we are under the direction of the the Franciscan University and the Marian Catechist Program. It has revitalized our RCIA and CCD programs the last five years. It is amazing what it has done to our parish. This year we have more people converting than any other parish in the Central Valley.

I wish Jersey would follow suit!!!

 

[Karin]

LSK:

Being a Catholic means that one has decided, of their own free will, to accept ALL the teachings of the Catholic Faith. If you do not accept all the teachings of the Catholic Faith you are not in communion with Rome, then you are not a faithful member of the Church…no one is forcing you to be a member of the Catholic Church. If you don’t want to be a member, don’t…but do not be upset if we point out to you that a well-formed conscience means a conscience that rejects teachings that are not in communion with the teachings of the Holy Mother Church. The Church teaches the Truth. Why would one not want to embrace the Truth?

People that pick and choose what they want to follow are part of what the problem is…THEY THINK THEY ARE GOD!!!

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

:tiphat: see ya - wouldn’t want to be ya

If I could delete my membership I would - there seems to be more blind people here than at a seeing eye dog convention…

HOM

 

[Michael_Francis]

:tiphat: see ya - wouldn’t want to be ya

If I could delete my membership I would - there seems to be more blind people here than at a seeing eye dog convention…

HOM

Wish granted.

 

[kamz]

Karin:

People that pick and choose what they want to follow are part of what the problem is…THEY THINK THEY ARE GOD!!!

But…only God is Perfect and only God is all knowing, he knows what is in our hearts and minds.
If we start saying you and you don’t really follow all the Catholic church’s teachings get out, what is that? That sounds just awful, the Catholic church is exactly where the sinner needs to be, hate the sin love the sinner. So, because I had my tubes tied 2 years ago I must leave the Catholic church? It took me time to realize that even though I was greatly misled by 3 doctors and my life is in grave danger if I had another pregnancy, still, I did not leave the Catholic church, this is my church too and 6 months ago I went to confession and asked for forgiveness, I don’t know who to believe, I was terrified and on the operation table and bleeding like crazy and my husband (a lutheran) said, no more of this, no more, I struggle with this every day and then I have to read a post that says “the Catholic church is not for you” “you sinned” “Get out” you know, I struggle, I SIN, I am living my life one minute at a time, and your post hurts me, I know I’m not a perfect Catholic and I know so many, many, many Catholics in my position and we are trying, one minute at a time and it is hard and we are taking one step at a time but guess what? We keep trying and we keep coming to Mass and we do hear the word and our hearts are touched…how can you come on here and pass judgement, if the Catholic church is not for the sinner then who is it for???
You sound like it is the church for the perfect and that is only God, please remember, people will sin and church is exactly where we need to be, I can tell you this, if I asked everyone in my parish to get up and walk out if they didn’t adhere to each of the rules of the Catholic church, we would have an empty church, sad, of course it is, but true?? Yes, so we struggle on and we try to change and some of us do and it doesn’t happen over night and sometimes it takes a very long time and I don’t think anyone but God should decide who does and does not belong to the Catholic faith.

 

[Petergee]

Heart Of Mary:

Cherry pick?? Intelectually dishonest? Oh Puhleeez…Why does it bother you guys that someone may want to think for themselves or listen to God and see what HE has to say?? Sorry to break this to you, but if you “listening” to a voice telling you to disobey the teachings of the Catholic Church, it is definitely NOT the Voice of God.

To follow ANY man blindly is just wrong. To be informed, take the advice and teachings into consideration and then listen to God is the way to go. If the church is “always right” then why should we bother thinking for ourselves???

And what if your “conscience” and your “listening to God” told you that God is not a Trinity? Or that He is not present in Communion? Or even that Jesus was just a crazy demoniac and that Muhammad or Buddha or the latest New Age guru got it right?

Yes, we must all pray constantly, and listen to God through prayer, AND through the Church which God founded to teach us. And God does not contradict Himself.

 

[Petergee]

kamz:

But…only God is Perfect and only God is all knowing, he knows what is in our hearts and minds.
If we start saying you and you don’t really follow all the Catholic church’s teachings get out, what is that? That sounds just awful, the Catholic church is exactly where the sinner needs to be, hate the sin love the sinner. So, because I had my tubes tied 2 years ago I must leave the Catholic church? It took me time to realize that even though I was greatly misled by 3 doctors and my life is in grave danger if I had another pregnancy, still, I did not leave the Catholic church, this is my church too and 6 months ago I went to confession and asked for forgiveness, I don’t know who to believe, I was terrified and on the operation table and bleeding like crazy and my husband (a lutheran) said, no more of this, no more, I struggle with this every day and then I have to read a post that says “the Catholic church is not for you” “you sinned” “Get out” you know, I struggle, I SIN, I am living my life one minute at a time, and your post hurts me, I know I’m not a perfect Catholic and I know so many, many, many Catholics in my position and we are trying, one minute at a time and it is hard and we are taking one step at a time but guess what? We keep trying and we keep coming to Mass and we do hear the word and our hearts are touched…how can you come on here and pass judgement, if the Catholic church is not for the sinner then who is it for???
You sound like it is the church for the perfect and that is only God, please remember, people will sin and church is exactly where we need to be, I can tell you this, if I asked everyone in my parish to get up and walk out if they didn’t adhere to each of the rules of the Catholic church, we would have an empty church, sad, of course it is, but true?? Yes, so we struggle on and we try to change and some of us do and it doesn’t happen over night and sometimes it takes a very long time and I don’t think anyone but God should decide who does and does not belong to the Catholic faith.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see anyone here saying “the Catholic church is not for you” “you sinned” “Get out”. Yes, the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club for the already perfect. But the first step in the sinner being cured is for them to admit that they sinned. The fact that you (apparently) sinned in having yourself sterilised does NOT exclude you from the Church. Even though the effects of this sin may be physically irreversible. Confess your sin in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and no-one will condemn you. I know, I was in a similar situation and made the same mistake. Though I regret it bitterly and can’t take back my sin, I know it is forgiven, BECAUSE I belong to the Church and avail myself of its Sacrament of Reconciliation.

What was being criticised in this thread was not “people who sin” but “people who DENY and REFUSE TO BELIEVE the clear teaching of the Church when they find it inconvenient, and claim falsely that their heterodox beliefs are consistent with the Catholic Faith.”

 

[Karin]

Petergee:

What was being criticised in this thread was not **“people who sin” but “people who DENY and REFUSE TO BELIEVE the clear teaching of the Church when they find it inconvenient, and claim falsely that their heterodox beliefs are consistent with the Catholic Faith.”/**QUOTE]

Thank you that is exactly what I was saying!

 

[kamz]

Petergee:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see anyone here saying “the Catholic church is not for you” “you sinned” “Get out”. Yes, the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club for the already perfect. But the first step in the sinner being cured is for them to admit that they sinned. The fact that you (apparently) sinned in having yourself sterilised does NOT exclude you from the Church. Even though the effects of this sin may be physically irreversible. Confess your sin in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and no-one will condemn you. I know, I was in a similar situation and made the same mistake. Though I regret it bitterly and can’t take back my sin, I know it is forgiven, BECAUSE I belong to the Church and avail myself of its Sacrament of Reconciliation.

What was being criticised in this thread was not “people who sin” but “people who DENY and REFUSE TO BELIEVE the clear teaching of the Church when they find it inconvenient, and claim falsely that their heterodox beliefs are consistent with the Catholic Faith.”

The thing is many people who at this point DENY and REFUSE TO BELIEVE need our prayers more than ever and…the best place for them is in the Catholic church where they can hear the word of God and believe me, even though people deny or refuse to believe, it does get into those ears and maybe it won’t happen today or tomorrow but somewhere down the line it will sink in.
Remember, Jesus surrounded himself with sinners and the best we can do is be an example of our faith and pray for those who are not walking with the Catholic faith, but to start stating this person or that person who refuse to believe why do they even stay Catholic? That is not for you or me to say, that is for God alone, take it to God, say an extra prayer for that person but then do what God would do, live your life the best you can, be a shining example of your faith but please don’t tell the sinner “why be Catholic when you refuse to follow it’s teachings” Nope, tell them you will not agree with them but you won’t ever stop praying for them that they will come to know the truth and tell them keep right on coming to church and open your ears and your eyes, this is right where they need to be, all are welcome even those who would sin against the church, they really, really need the church.

 

[Karin]

kamz:

but to start stating this person or that person who refuse to believe why do they even stay Catholic? .

kamz:

live your life the best you can, be a shining example of your faith but please don’t tell the sinner “**why be Catholic when you refuse to follow it’s teachings” **.

Quick question…if people choose not to follow the Church’s teachings , isn’t that saying** I am not Catholic**?
Becuase is not part of being a Catholic, following the Church teachings? Or is it only believing in Jesus Christ, giving money, and going through the sacraments that makes you Catholic? Or another option…is it picking and choosing what you want to believe from Church teachings that makes you a Catholic?

 

[thistle]

Karin:

Quick question…if people choose not to follow the Church’s teachings , isn’t that saying** I am not Catholic**?
Becuase is not part of being a Catholic, following the Church teachings? Or is it only believing in Jesus Christ, giving money, and going through the sacraments that makes you Catholic? Or another option…is it picking and choosing what you want to believe from Church teachings that makes you a Catholic?

It just means such a person is not a good Catholic. It does not mean they not Catholic and they can rectify things through Confession (sooner or later).

 

[Karin]

thistle:

It just means such a person is not a good Catholic. It does not mean they not Catholic and they can rectify things through Confession (sooner or later).

Oh ok…so I can become a Catholic in name and totally disregard Chruch teaching and that is totally ok as long as I confess my ignorance/sin?
Wonderful where do I sign up???

 

[thistle]

Karin:

Oh ok…so I can become a Catholic in name and totally disregard Chruch teaching and that is totally ok as long as I confess my ignorance/sin?
Wonderful where do I sign up???

Why are you so sarcastic and angry? You should not be condemning such people but praying for them.
What happened to “love your neighbour”?

 

[Karin]

thistle:

Why are you so sarcastic and angry?

Sarcasm yes, anger nope.

thistle:

You should not be condemning such people but praying for them.

I am not condemning them I am trying to understand why repeatdly doing something that people know is against church teaching is ok.
An example a family that gives money to the church and their time goes back 4 times for IVF treatments that produce 4 children…totally against church teaching but everyone says it is ok…WHY???
In this day and age people now that IVF is not allowed!

thistle:

What happened to “love your neighbour”?

**Sure I love my neighbor but I HATE that their SIN! **

 

[thistle]

FightingFat:

What about conscience?

Some people prefer to use their brains and think about issues themselves rather than just follow a set of rules. You may think this is a bad thing, but it is a truth none the less. If someone is devout in their belief and has truly thought and prayed about an issue, but come to a conclusion in opposition, as I understand it, they are still wrong, but it is not necessarily a sin.

Actually that is not correct. It is a mortal sin if someone refuses to accept any truths of the Faith or any teachings of the Church. They cannot pick and choose the ones they like or dislike. ALL must be accepted.

 

[kamz]

Karin, your talking about the other thread, in the family forum, that is one family, does every Catholic have that same attitude?? No, they don’t and the family your speaking of still needs to get ther behinds to the Catholic church so they can hopefully someday see the error in their ways and get thee to confession and repent.
I know so many who have given their testimony, many women who took the bc pill for 15 or more years but kept coming to mass and they came to a point where it Finally sunk in, this is not O.K. and they got off the bc pill, repented and now try to reach out to other women, these women are some awesome gals in my church who have basically formed their little group to speak to others and say "hey, I did this, this is how much I regret it, please think about what your doing, I’m there for you when it sinks in to your thick head, today, tomorrow, next year, 20 years from now but they are not saying…you keep sinning and going against the Catholic church, you won’t listen so why are you Catholic? Karin, it may bug the living heck out of you but it is NOT for you to say who can and can’t be Catholic, get over it, why not get to mass right now and pray for these people??? Pray hard, I’m heading out the door right now to go watch my kids at children’s mass and I’m going to light a candle for the couple who uses IVF with no regards to church teachings, someday, their eyes will open but I will not judge them, I won’t, I’m such a huge sinner and I will not stand in judgement and I will not ask them to leave, I will disagree with them, and my gosh, I will pray with everything in me for them.

 

[kamz]

thistle:

Actually that is not correct. It is a mortal sin if someone refuses to accept any truths of the Faith or any teachings of the Church. They cannot pick and choose the ones they like or dislike. ALL must be accepted.

But, are you going to get in a line at church and question each member and tell them, you, obey or get out? Since when did God make you judge? We must reach out but if you reach out with confrontation and bitterness you are not reaching anything, you must speak with truth and compassion and listen and pray, people are more apt to listen when your not freaking out on them, you need to speak with love and kindness and truth.

 

[Karin]

kamz:

Karin, your talking about the other thread, in the family forum, that is one family, does every Catholic have that same attitude?? No, they don’t and the family your speaking of still needs to get ther behinds to the Catholic church so they can hopefully someday see the error in their ways and get thee to confession and repent…

Yup, and you are telling me that the church is ok that these folks go up every week for Communion while they are in SIN?
Is that not a big NO-NO??

kamz:

Karin, it may bug the living heck out of you but it is NOT for you to say who can and can’t be Catholic, get over it, why not get to mass right now and pray for these people??? .

Actually I could care less if they remained Catholic or not …that is not for me to say but the Church.
Mass on a weekday-Nah I’ll pass.

kamz:

I’m such a huge sinner and I will not stand in judgement and I will not ask them to leave, I will disagree with them, and my gosh, I will pray with everything in me for them.

Arent we all sinners? I do not stand in judement of these folks what I am tring to do is understand how they can get away with picking and choosing what they want out of the Church Teaching.
I also disagree with what they do and I disagree even more that they call themselves Catholics when they pick and choose what they want to follow!