Illegal Immigration and Morality

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An unjust law is no law. Therefore, you can’t start with “law” (as in rules made by governments) and limit your pursuit of justice within those boundaries. You must start with justice and judge governmental “laws” on that basis.

Never mind that you’re arguing against a straw man–no one wants illegal immigration. The question is whether the law should be changed to conform to basic human needs, as Catholic teaching requires, or whether the law (and your twisted version of nationalism which you falsely claim is supported by Catholic teaching) should be maintained even if it tramples and crushes human beings in the process.
Why is US immigration law ‘unjust’? Because you don’t agree with it?

And what are these ‘basic human needs’ of which you speak? Food, water and shelter? This may surprise you, but the US doesn’t have a monopoly on these things. They’re found pretty much everywhere…
 
Most of the statements have offered understanding and emphasized the need for change, but have never green-lighted illegal entry.
I consider the two statements in the TX Catholic Voice edition to be green-lighting illegal entry. One of those was referred to by tqualey, earlier. It was the one supporting the existence of sanctuary cities. The second one was in the same CV edition: it opposes E-verify. In the very dynamics of Catholic moral decision-making, both constitute cooperation with law-breaking, and i.m.o., without sufficient foundation for establishing the so-called immorality of employment verification and the so-called morality of sanctuary cities. Domestic criminal law is also imperfect; we don’t stop arresting suspects and bringing them to trial because Heavenly Perfection has not yet been reached in the daily operation of criminal law. (And many of those suspects commit crimes as a “solution” to desperate poverty, as well.)

The weak excuse for opposing E-verify was that we supposedly shouldn’t do that before a complete overhaul of immigration is completed. Absurd. E-verify is part of immigration reform; it is an essential aspect of it. Demanding an unattainable perfection for a verification system (the thrust of the statement) sounds like an excuse for indefinite procrastination of enforcement.

Thirdly, I find the Bishops’ language in the new Faithful Citizenship document to be very troubling. It sounds rather self-contradictory. On the one hand it pretends (again, weakly) to reinforce the legitimacy of national borders, while on the other it implies that borders themselves are immoral, or at least optional. The language used sounds like something that one would find in extremely left-wing literature, with talking points such as Migration substituted for immigration (a poster’s earlier point), and phrases like “Global Solidarity.” The entire section reads like a minimization and trivialization of economic needs for anyone except illegal immigrants specifically. Finally, anyone (and I don’t just mean the bishops) who supports inordinately illegal immigration is by definition supporting an imbalanced domination of immigration from one region alone. The more our country accommodates, by fait accompli, a dominant population that is here illegally, the less Justice is available for other immigrants, simply from the math and the practicalities. It prejudices the immigration situation to be Latin American by overwhelming default; migrants from all other lands need not come to the front of the line, despite needs just as desperate or even more so. It clogs the system to continue to enable illegal immigration, even while supposedly giving token support for “reform.”

Such positions oppose the impartiality of Justice, and the need for universal Charity.
 
Hi, Elizabeth502,

It is always a pleasure to read your posts… 👍

God bless
I consider the two statements in the TX Catholic Voice edition to be green-lighting illegal entry. One of those was referred to by tqualey, earlier. It was the one supporting the existence of sanctuary cities. The second one was in the same CV edition: it opposes E-verify. In the very dynamics of Catholic moral decision-making, both constitute cooperation with law-breaking, and i.m.o., without sufficient foundation for establishing the so-called immorality of employment verification and the so-called morality of sanctuary cities. Domestic criminal law is also imperfect; we don’t stop arresting suspects and bringing them to trial because Heavenly Perfection has not yet been reached in the daily operation of criminal law. (And many of those suspects commit crimes as a “solution” to desperate poverty, as well.)

The weak excuse for opposing E-verify was that we supposedly shouldn’t do that before a complete overhaul of immigration is completed. Absurd. E-verify is part of immigration reform; it is an essential aspect of it. Demanding an unattainable perfection for a verification system (the thrust of the statement) sounds like an excuse for indefinite procrastination of enforcement.

Thirdly, I find the Bishops’ language in the new Faithful Citizenship document to be very troubling. It sounds rather self-contradictory. On the one hand it pretends (again, weakly) to reinforce the legitimacy of national borders, while on the other it implies that borders themselves are immoral, or at least optional. The language used sounds like something that one would find in extremely left-wing literature, with talking points such as Migration substituted for immigration (a poster’s earlier point), and phrases like “Global Solidarity.” The entire section reads like a minimization and trivialization of economic needs for anyone except illegal immigrants specifically. Finally, anyone (and I don’t just mean the bishops) who supports inordinately illegal immigration is by definition supporting an imbalanced domination of immigration from one region alone. The more our country accommodates, by fait accompli, a dominant population that is here illegally, the less Justice is available for other immigrants, simply from the math and the practicalities. It prejudices the immigration situation to be Latin American by overwhelming default; migrants from all other lands need not come to the front of the line, despite needs just as desperate or even more so. It clogs the system to continue to enable illegal immigration, even while supposedly giving token support for “reform.”

Such positions oppose the impartiality of Justice, and the need for universal Charity.
 
I consider the two statements in the TX Catholic Voice edition to be green-lighting illegal entry. One of those was referred to by tqualey, earlier. It was the one supporting the existence of sanctuary cities. The second one was in the same CV edition: it opposes E-verify.
I understand your opinion, and do not object to some forms of E-verify, but these actions do not equate directly to a statement that illegal entry is acceptable and moral. (green-lighting). Both of these issues are enforcement issues. It is like saying that if one is opposed to Tazers, Miranda warning or the death penalty then they are saying mugging, theft murder are morally acceptable. As far as Sanctuary cities, my opinion would vary depending on the specifics. I have a problem with police that do not choose to run every hispanic they contact that thinks football is played with a round ball, but on the other extreme to have a policy against any deportation of illegal immigrants, that is way too far for me. I am somewhere in between (by this, I am not green-lighting illegal entry, btw.:))
 
I understand your opinion, and do not object to some forms of E-verify, but these actions do not equate directly to a statement that illegal entry is acceptable and moral. (green-lighting). Both of these issues are enforcement issues.
They equate indirectly. Enforcement, and resistance to it, are aspects of cooperation with an activity. That is an essential aspect of moral culpability in Catholic moral theology, and thus even an element when it comes to passive cooperation with abortion, and when it comes to silence when one is in any position to speak up against injustice, etc. No, the bishops don’t get a pass on this one. I’m applying classic Catholic moral principles to the issue, pnewton. The same dynamics apply. When you enable an activity by supporting any phase or aspect of it, you engage in cooperation. You are affirming it and contributing to its existence and even proliferation.

I also distinguish between organized, formal advocacy of illegal immigration (which is what ‘sanctuary cities’ result in) and malicious, optional individual enforcement, which (the latter) I think serves no purpose in justice and charity. Thus, I have some neighbors who I know are undocumented. They are really struggling economically, and it’s very sad to watch. They are doing their best to survive but so far are not overcoming the hurdles of being so low-skilled and undereducated in a high cost-of-living metro market with an overqualified labor pool. Exactly what would be the benefit to society or morality for me to run to the authorities and “report” them? That does not mean, however, that I would hire them to work for me (knowing their status), because that would be a form of cooperation.
 
They equate indirectly. Enforcement, and resistance to it, are aspects of cooperation with an activity. That is an essential aspect of moral culpability in Catholic moral theology, and thus even an element when it comes to passive cooperation with abortion, and when it comes to silence when one is in any position to speak up against injustice, etc.
I agree that your application is legitimate. Some of the activities taken are remote materical cooperation with illegal immigration. This is not the same moral thing as remote material cooperation with evil (as in abortion). The principle of proximity is the same, but I really think the comparison with abortion is misleading. Rather I would prefer to remote cooperation with charity, or at least, promoting footbal by buying and NFL jersey. At least that is a neutral action (unless it’s a Steelers jersey). In any, case, remote cooperation, or as you put it supporting something indirectly is not equal to approval. The diocese here has an active prison ministry to help those behind bars. This does not mean that they approve of their crime.
 
That does not mean, however, that I would hire them to work for me (knowing their status), because that would be a form of cooperation.
That is understandable, because you don’t want to cooperate with that. However, if one does with to help one of them with a job or direct aid, that is not an immoral act. The thing that they are cooperating with is not an intrisically grave sin. It would* not* equate, for example, to helping pay for an abortion.
 
“At least that is a neutral action (unless it’s a Steelers jersey).”

THAT explains a lot, pnewton! You must be related to the liberal Dan Rooney. 😃
 
That is understandable, because you don’t want to cooperate with that. However, if one does with to help one of them with a job or direct aid, that is not an immoral act. The thing that they are cooperating with is not an intrisically grave sin. It would* not* equate, for example, to helping pay for an abortion.
I didn’t compare the gravity of the act (of enabling illegal immigration – via direct help, via indirect help, and via resistance to enforcement) to the gravity of abortion. I’m comparing the dynamics of cooperation. For the bishops to rationalize blanket opposition to E-verify (which they did in the Catholic Voice statement), they would need to establish that E-verify is in itself immoral. They have not done so to the standards of Catholic apologetics. Again, we do not stop enforcing criminal laws in this country because laws are not standardized in all 50 states, or even within all counties within a State, and because penalties for those laws are not standardized among the several States. Nor do we assert (I doubt the bishops would assert) that disparate outcomes in prosecution of lawbreakers is an aspect of criminal law that invalidates the law itself. (Lots of suspects and later-convincted criminals manage to escape prosecution by trickery,by chance, or by incompetence of prosecutors; yet there has been no episcopal statement that suggests that it is a holy act, an act of justice, to “therefore” fail to prosecute, because of differences in outcomes.) And I repeat, many such unluckily prosecuted criminals are among the most desperately poor of those legally here.

It stretches credibility to imply (by argument) that a different moral code should be applied to the desperately poor of other countries, who have violated sovereign boundaries, than to the equally desperately poor of our country, who have violated criminal laws with the same incentive and personal plight (poverty).

In courts of criminal law, there is the occasional convicted criminal whose act(s) of desperation --often accompanied by a history of victimization-- will reach the ear of a sensitive judge, who is legally empowered with dispensing ultimate justice (the sentence). The judge gets the last word. But those judgments are particular to the cases at hand, carefully studied, in all detail, and by experts in criminal law. The bishops are not experts in the individual cases of strangers who have broken federal jurisdiction by invading boundaries. The motivations of those strangers are mixed. In making broad, sweeping judgments of the supposed innocence of these strangers, the bishops are romanticizing illegal immigration most inappropriately and inaccurately, declaring it by argument (though not my label) as good, and therefore opposition to its prosecution as morally justfiable. They have not presented evidence that illegal immigration is generally or always or even mostly good (not only in its motivation but also in its outcomes – to immigrants and to the host country).

By contrast, the Civil Rights movement of the mid-to-late '60’s in this country was one which opposed racism and the soft and hard laws that reflected and supported that racism. Thus, in that case, nothing good could be asserted about the upholding of such laws; all opposition to such universally unjust laws was legitimately moral.

Such is not the parallel with illegal immigration. It is unfortunate the the bishops do not appear to have done their homework regarding these key differences.
 
In an effort to see what others think of enforcement of illegal immigration - here is a British paper addressing a new Alabama law: guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/07/alabama-immigration-law-water-threat

While neither objective or even-handed, it did give some interesting information specific to what a State can do to safeguard its own boundaries. The fact that many children have been pulled from Alabama schools is a possible indication that this law is having a real effect.

What is missing from the report on what the Federal Government is doing - is putting more staff into Alabama to assist with registration and getting these other-wise qualified people to be compliant with US Laws. What we have is the Obama Administration trying to stop the law from taking effect (a Federal Judge ruled that the key provisions could be implemented).

This newspaper account is not the last word on the matter. I submit the the States have been essentially told to fund illegal immigration because the Federal Government will either not enforce existing law or provide the States with the money they need to deal with this illegal influx of immigrants. Whatever your thinking about how Alabama is addressing this problem - it is only because the Federal Government - specifically the Executive Branch - has totally failed in its duties.

We have a problem with illegal immigration and ‘push has come to shove’. This probably is not the way many of us would have moved to resolve the matter - but, this is not the opening scene on drama we have come to know as ‘Illegal Immigration’. It appears that no State is just going to willingly throw upon its gates and invite illegal immigrants to come in. Other states will join Alabama - which got the key provisions of their law through, and I think it is fair to say that Alabama’s legislators learned from the Arizona experience. This is going to probably cause a major relocation of illegal immigrants back to their country of origin. What happens to their children who were born in US is something for the other country to answer (assuming they travel with their parents). It really is time to ‘pay the Piper’.

Out of this, I deeply wish the Federal Government would immediately work with the States to craft a workable enforcement of immigration policy. Those who wish to immigrate are requried to obey the host country’s laws this is not only is basic but it is moral. What we are seeing unfold is sad but necessary from numerous perspectives.

God bless
 
The immigrants that are here illegal or not deserve to be treated humanely. The illegal immigrants work in jobs lazy americans won’t work in.

But even the Catechism teaches we have the right to control our borders. It is a matter of national security that we need to get our borders under control.

The Bishops take way to many stands, almost on every single bill that passes through congress, the bishops are taking a stand. Excuse me, but that is not there place!!! The bishops are to enunciate Catholic doctrine in communion with the Pope, and the laity are to put the principles into action. I truly think the bishops have cried wolf so many times, and sometimes the bishops actually advocate for things that hurt the family/morailty. The bishops as a whole are completely irrelevant when it comes to politics!!!:mad:
 
Hi, Yosupman,

Forgive me for not quite following you post here… do you think that illegal immigrants are being treated humanely in Alabama since this new law took effect?

Yes, the Church recognizes the right to control borders, and the right to make laws for the common good. In justice we are to establish what we, through our elected officials, consider to be just laws for our citizens and those who are here legally.

You comment about Americans won’t work because they are too lazy to work lacks credible references and appears to be prejudicial. Maybe you’d like to clarify that comment.

God bless
The immigrants that are here illegal or not deserve to be treated humanely. The illegal immigrants work in jobs lazy americans won’t work in.

But even the Catechism teaches we have the right to control our borders. It is a matter of national security that we need to get our borders under control.

The Bishops take way to many stands, almost on every single bill that passes through congress, the bishops are taking a stand. Excuse me, but that is not there place!!! The bishops are to enunciate Catholic doctrine in communion with the Pope, and the laity are to put the principles into action. I truly think the bishops have cried wolf so many times, and sometimes the bishops actually advocate for things that hurt the family/morailty. The bishops as a whole are completely irrelevant when it comes to politics!!!:mad:
 
Show me a citation from any bishop saying that Catholics are morally justified in breaking a particular immigration law or of deciding for themselves which laws they will or won’t abide by and you might have a case. With the exception of the new Alabama law, which the local bishops claim (erroneously I believe) will interfere with their religious rights, I am unaware of anyone who has said Catholics are free to violate any immigration law. I would be very interested in knowing which bishop has said Catholics should not just oppose but violate immigration laws.

Ender
It is true that as Christians we are instructed to obey the laws of the nations in which we live**:Romans 13:1-7**. However, if any of those laws are contrary to Gods will, we are to disobay them**:Acts 5:16-42**. This tells us two facts:
  1. A Nation set up by God, still has the freewill to obey or disobey God.
  2. In order to revere Gods Law rather than man’s a man must examine his heart through the eyes of the Spirit in him.
    Your Brother in Christ,
    Richard.
 
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