Illegal Immigration and the Church

[RachelsAlumni]

Personally I believe that the Church should abide by the laws of the land and not harbor any fugitives. We cannot be a part of rewarding law breakers. The Church certainly doesn’t help American felons. Illegal Immigration is exactly what it implies—illegal.

Encarta defines a fugitive as “somebody who runs away: somebody who flees, e.g. from justice, enemies, or brutal treatment.”

Merriam-Webster dictionary defines fugitive as “a person who flees or tries to escape; especially refugee”

fugitive
Function:
noun
Date:
14th century
1: a person who flees or tries to escape; especially : refugee
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French fugitif, from Latin fugitivus, from fugitus, past participle of fugere to flee; akin to Greek pheugein to flee
Date:
14th century
1: running away or intending flight
2: moving from place to place : wandering

the legal definition of ‘fugitive from justice’, which is what I think you’re trying to infer, is:

a person convicted or accused of a crime who hides from law enforcement in the state or flees across state lines to avoid arrest or punishment.

An undocumented worker/immigrant does not fit the ‘fleeing from justice’ definition since they are

1. rather than fleeing justice they are fleeing the injustice of not having enough work to feed their families
2. not convicted or accused of a crime.

Unlawful presence is not a felony or a criminal offense. It’s rather a civil offense.

They do, however, easily fit the definition of refugee or wanderer.

10 And oppress not the widow, and the fatherless, and the stranger, and the poor: and let not a man devise evil in his heart against his brother. (Zacharias 7)

I’ve read that the bible teaches us we are to care for the needs of the refugee or wanderer. It makes perfect sense to me that the Church would welcome the stranger, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give water to those who thirst, and shelter to the homeless, since Our Lord has said “I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink;** I was a stranger, and you took me in**… Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.” (Matthew 25:34-46)

 

[pnewton]

The Church should neither support legal nor illegal immigration…

From the catechism.
2433 Access to employment and to professions must be open to all without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and** immigrants**.219 For its part society should, according to circumstances, help citizens find work and employment.
The Chuch must recognize as all as equal in dignity and value. A person’s place of birth is not their choice. The man who lives south of the border has an equal right under God as the man who lives north.

 

[skeetor]

From the catechism.
2433 Access to employment and to professions must be open to all without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and** immigrants**.219 For its part society should, according to circumstances, help citizens find work and employment.
The Chuch must recognize as all as equal in dignity and value. A person’s place of birth is not their choice. The man who lives south of the border has an equal right under God as the man who lives north.

I think I left something out. I meant to say.

The Church should neither support nor deny immigration, wheather it be illegal or legal.

I am saying that’s not what the Church, as a religious institution designed to spread the Gospel of Jesus, is about. The Church should not be involved with social matters such as this, that should be left to individual christians and christian organizations but never under the guise of “The Church.” But as christians we should work tirelessly to see that our brothers have all of their basic needs met and that their rights are upheld.

 

[saayra]

Thirteen years ago, I sat in church and listened to a missionary priest to a South American country speak of how women would hike from their remote villages to bring their babies to the priests begging that they take them to America. The priests’ response was that they would help them improve their lives so that they could afford to keep their children. That’s the mission of the Church.

We cannot rescue the whole world by opening the flood gates. Mexico and many South American governments are not doing what it takes to make life in their countries easier. Instead you read about the murder of missionaries like Sister Dorothy Stang who stood up against the oppressors of the poor and therefore earned a price on her head. Just think of the outcry against our government for presuming to tell other countries how to treat their own people. We can try, but we can’t make the rest of the world cease to be inhumane.

When illegals wind up in our town, both our church and the rest of our community does open it’s arms to them providing them with food and clothing. We feel bad when a mother is deported while the rest of the family remains. We shake our heads when a teenager who has lived here for eight years is deported after lying about having a family (also illegal) in this country.

I also feel enraged about the Mexicans and Guatemalans working on a neighboring farm who provided my son with drugs that permanently altered his brain which changed the life of our whole family as we knew it. We will suffer for the rest of our son’s life with the consequences of his contact with people who wanted to better their financial situation by selling drugs.

As I previously said, this is a complex problem.

However we cannot reward people who cut in line ahead of their own countrymen by giving them amnesty. If you break a law, you should be prepared to suffer the consequences. Try to sneak into Mexico and see how they treat you. Better yet, listen to the horror stories of Americans who found themselves on the wrong side of the law across the border. How are you going to do background checks on those who sneak across the border? I’m sure it’s hard enough to determine who the criminals are when they go through the proper channels. What other country on this globe opens its borders and allows people to freely flow back and forth without passports. None, not even our gracious Canadian neighbors to the north. They bounce them back on us.

I understand that it is our duty as followers of Christ to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. I take part in this myself. Having said that, we must honor the laws of our land and not interfere with any attempts to uphold those laws.

I love my country and can plainly see that it is in trouble and that life as we know it is threatened by what we and our neighbors do.uch:

 

[RomanCrusader]

As Catholics we are called upon to obey our leaders, both spiritual and national.

Illegal immigration poses a danger to our home nation, and thus should not be supported.

 

[drthomas_21]

I am saying that’s not what the Church, as a religious institution designed to spread the Gospel of Jesus, is about. The Church should not be involved with social matters such as this, that should be left to individual christians and christian organizations but never under the guise of “The Church.” But as christians we should work tirelessly to see that our brothers have all of their basic needs met and that their rights are upheld.

Hola Skeetor,

That sounds interesting…

 

[drthomas_21]

From the catechism.
2433 Access to employment and to professions must be open to all without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and** immigrants**.219 For its part society should, according to circumstances, help citizens find work and employment.
The Chuch must recognize as all as equal in dignity and value. A person’s place of birth is not their choice. The man who lives south of the border has an equal right under God as the man who lives north.

Hola pnewton,

Ironically, the quotes you posted do not support your conclusion.

The first quote “…without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and** immigrants…” does not mention or include illegal immigrants. It also stats that just discrimination is ok.

Your second quote “…For its part society should, according to circumstances, help citizens find work and employment…”, again states citizens, and does not include illegal immigrants.

Your last statement, “…The man who lives south of the border has an equal right under God as the man who lives north…”, could have also been rewritten to state that "The man who lives south of the border has an equal right under God to make his/her country be the best.

America did not get to where it is today without many people of the past sacrificing their lives, wealth, and many other things.

Instead of taking the easier rout, going north, if more Mexicans would stay home, I believe they could reach a critical mass where they can start to make some real changes. When you have most of the leaders leaving, what is left behind – take a look at our inner city.**

 

[pnewton]

Hola pnewton,

Ironically, the quotes you posted do not support your conclusion.

You are right, except for the part about conclusions. I really do not have any. I was just throwing out some teaching that we need to remember and showing that the Catholic Church does have some teaching in the area.

BTW - I do not support illegal immigration in any shape or form.

 

[hazmatdude]

Unfortunately the USSCBishops have spoken. Not only do they support illegal immigration but they support illegal aliens over citizens (English speaking Americans) and legal immigrants by actively working against the laws of this nation. They frequently use the argument that that the Church is greater then the boundaries of any sovereign nation just look at the antics of Archbishop Mahoney, Los Angeles. I have searched at least a hundred diocesan websites over the past year and have found none that actively support the sovereignty of the USA by advising illegal aliens to return to their country of origin and begin the legal immigration procedures. On the contrary each and every one are doing just the opposite and many are actively subverting the laws of the USA. We do indeed live in rather perplexing times.

 

[saayra]

Unfortunately the USSCBishops have spoken. Not only do they support illegal immigration but they support illegal aliens over citizens (English speaking Americans) and legal immigrants by actively working against the laws of this nation. They frequently use the argument that that the Church is greater then the boundaries of any sovereign nation just look at the antics of Archbishop Mahoney, Los Angeles. I have searched at least a hundred diocesan websites over the past year and have found none that actively support the sovereignty of the USA by advising illegal aliens to return to their country of origin and begin the legal immigration procedures. On the contrary each and every one are doing just the opposite and many are actively subverting the laws of the USA. We do indeed live in rather perplexing times.

The unfortunate result of this behavior on the part of the church is that some people are voting with their feet and leaving the faith they have practiced for a lifetime. I have friends to whom our diocese denied using tithes for the benefit of illegal aliens, but would not give them the same statement in writing. I miss these good and faithful people and the diocese is doing without their monetary support.

 

[pnewton]

I have friends to whom our diocese denied using tithes for the benefit of illegal aliens,

I have helped illegal aliens. I didn’t know that was a problem for some. A Catholic who would leave the Church because the Church ministered to the wrong people has far more serious issues.

 

[hazmatdude]

In my little corner of the San Francisco bay area people leaving the Church is common. My Deacon says that English speakers of all races feel they are no longer welcome so they leave for a mega-Evangelical Church up the road or stop practicing their faith all together. Our Bishop exacerbates the problem by ignoring it (sound familiar) and to over emphasize welcoming the stranger be he legal or illegal and propagating a balkanized society. This translates into segregated cultural or worship services being sanctioned. A couple of examples are all Charismatic Renewal services or the feast day celebrations for our lady of Quadelupe are entirely in a foreign language. He even cancels English language Mass to hold these events at times. So whats the solution? The Church has got to remember that it part of the United States and to rethink its USCCB polices to differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants, host English language and civics classes to help integrate and welcome these new Americans into the nation and into American society.

 

[saayra]

I have helped illegal aliens. I didn’t know that was a problem for some. A Catholic who would leave the Church because the Church ministered to the wrong people has far more serious issues.

One of the problems is that the Catholic Church denies using funds but will not put that in writing. These people are very generous about helping those in need. They just wanted assurance that their money wasn’t going to be used for illegals.

You are right about there being more serious problems. The priest has been selective about what he calls a political issue favoring his own views and not allowing any others to take place on church property. He made an announcement from the pulpit asking the congregation to write to the President and then turned around and reprimanded these people for handing out a rebuttal on the issue at coffee hour. He even suggested that it was unchristian to hold a view contrary to his own.

I personally will not leave the church because of his unfair behavior. I stay as long as I think I can make a difference knowing that there are many catholics who share my opinions on important matters.

 

[Ender]

The priest has been selective about what he calls a political issue favoring his own views and not allowing any others to take place on church property. He made an announcement from the pulpit asking the congregation to write to the President and then turned around and reprimanded these people for handing out a rebuttal on the issue at coffee hour. He even suggested that it was unchristian to hold a view contrary to his own.

I personally will not leave the church because of his unfair behavior. I stay as long as I think I can make a difference knowing that there are many catholics who share my opinions on important matters.

It is important that you not leave your church, at least until you have tried your best to limit the damage this priest is doing (assuming the accuracy of your claims). It can be very tempting to leave a bad situation and attend a church with a better priest but it is necessary to at least try to limit the damage being done before you bail. I applaud you for hanging on. I’ve been in that situation and it is difficult to say the least. Look for others who share your views; you’re surely not alone and a group will be more effective than a single individual.

Ender

 

[pnewton]

I have a problem with the charity level of anyone who would want to give money to help the needy, as long as the needy were not here illegally. Heck, I believe in even ministering to those in prison. But then Jesus did say that when we did that we are ministering to him. For those that don’t, it’s the old depart from me, you accursed.

I can understand not wanting money or resources going to promote a liberalization of immigration. That’s a political issue. But the poor are the poor. Ministering to them is an act of mercy we are all called to, whether they have violated a law or not. Many of the poor anglo citizens who are in need have violated a law at some time. Do we let them starve, go homeless or treat them as outcast?

 

[saayra]

I can understand not wanting money or resources going to promote a liberalization of immigration. That’s a political issue. But the poor are the poor. Ministering to them is an act of mercy we are all called to, whether they have violated a law or not. Many of the poor anglo citizens who are in need have violated a law at some time. Do we let them starve, go homeless or treat them as outcast?

We do assist them with food shelter and medical in our community. In fact they get preferential treatment over poor legitimate citizens. My objection is that the Catholic Church has indeed gone political and overstepped itself on behalf of illegals.

 

[pnewton]

My objection is that the Catholic Church has indeed gone political and overstepped itself on behalf of illegals.

That I can understand.

BTW, even though my parish is mostly hispanic, with many illegal immigrants, my priest has been adamant about not canceling any English Masses, even though bases on attendance and space, we could. He has seen the wisdom in not only looking at attendence numbers, but the offering totals. The least attended Mass (7:30 am) is number 2 out of 5 in offering.

 

[Ender]

I have a problem with the charity level of anyone who would want to give money to help the needy, as long as the needy were not here illegally.

The bishops of Maryland (including Archbishop Wuerl of DC) recently issued a letter on immigration that included this comment:

“The legality of a person’s entry into the United States is one issue; our response to him now that he’s here is a separate one. The former is the government’s responsibility; the latter is also ours.”

mdcathcon.org/main.asp?page=1119

As someone who is *strongly *opposed to illegal immigration this statement gave me pause. I understand the distinction and the appropriateness of making it … but I am still uneasy with it as I remain unconvinced that the two obligations can be so cleanly separated.

I accept the obligation of aiding the needy. I also believe in the right and duty of a nation to control its borders and to determine who may and may not be admitted. Where there is no conflict between the two there is no issue; the problem comes when the needs of some people conflict with the rights of others. If ameliorating the needs of illegals comes at the expense of American citizens I am less willing to accept it. That is, if the church’s response to the presence of illegals facilitates and increases their numbers, then I do not accept it as appropriate and I would surely not want my contributions used for that purpose.

Ender

 

[saayra]

I accept the obligation of aiding the needy. I also believe in the right and duty of a nation to control its borders and to determine who may and may not be admitted. Where there is no conflict between the two there is no issue; the problem comes when the needs of some people conflict with the rights of others. If ameliorating the needs of illegals comes at the expense of American citizens I am less willing to accept it. That is, if the church’s response to the presence of illegals facilitates and increases their numbers, then I do not accept it as appropriate and I would surely not want my contributions used for that purpose.

Ender

Well said.

 

[pnewton]

That is, if the church’s response to the presence of illegals facilitates and increases their numbers, then I do not accept it as appropriate and I would surely not want my contributions used for that purpose.

Ender

That is a pretty big “if”. I find it difficult to believe that people come across illegally, not for work or government benefits, but for help from a church.

As far as charity helping those who are illegal at the expense of citizens, this idea misses what charity is. Charity is giving as God gives. The poorest and most needy first. I have to agree with the Maryland letter. Charity can not be subject to political pressure. The two must be separate. This means helping the poor can not be done for the sake of helping illegal immigration or can charity be withheld for the purpose of discouraging it. It is one thing for the government to withhold assistance of those who are here illegally. The are the trustees of the public’s money. The Church, however, answers to God.