Illegal Immigration and the Church

[markomalley]

8 U.S.C. § 1325 discusses the crime of “Improper entry by alien.” (a) discusses the crime of improper entry by means of fraud; (b) discusses the crime of improper entry…even without fraud being involved; (c) talks about the crime of improper entry through marriage fraud; (d) talks about the crime of establishing a business to facilitate improper entry.

8 U.S.C. § 1227 discusses which classes of aliens are deportable.

The term “alien” is a legal term. It has a legal definition. If some don’t care for that definition, oh well…

Paragraph 2241 of the Catechism states:

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

There are a couple of points that need to be observed here by all (including ‘their graces’):

True: The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin.

But: Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.

Comment: We, as a prosperous nation, are obliged to welcome the foreigner. But our political authorities have the right to control the circumstances where and when the foreigner can enter. In this country, those controls are established in Title 8 of the United States Code.

The United States, at least in principle, operates under the concept of governance by the consent of the governed. In other words, if you think that Title 8 of the US Code is unjust, you have the right to petition your elected officials to change Title 8. Or to elect new officials who will make the needed changes. However, particularly considering the fact that paragraph 2241 of the CCC explictly states that the political authorities have the right to control immigration, I cannot see how it is morally licit to intentionally ignore the immigration laws in Tile 8. (Paragraph 2242 of the CCC states, The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community.)

The question that opened this thread was:

Is the church spending to much resources on supporting illegal immigration at the expense of legal immigrants and citizens? Or do you feel that the church should do more to support illegal immigration?
In light of the above, I think the actions of many in the Church hierarchy are inappropriate. Political action to protect aliens unlawfully present (and who have entered the country illegally) is in direct violation of the law and of the CCC (para 2238 and 2239). If they care to point out what in the law is unjust and encourage the change of those portions of the law, that would be one thing…but taking actions to encourage people to break the law and then working to hide fugitives from the law (check the references to the US Code, above, if you question whether or not those folks here illegally have broken the law or not…to include minors smuggled in by their parents) is morally reprehensible.

The real action that I believe should be taken by the hierarchy would be to encourage the flock and the authorities to carry out the law with full regard for the dignity of the human person and in light of the common good. However, in the spirit of solidarity, they should also support actions that will create “conditions that foster increased work opportunities in people’s place of origin are to be promoted as much as possible.” (Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church, para 298)

But here’s the real question: if we did not have socialistic programs and a nanny-state attitude in this country, would immigration even be an issue?

 

[pnewton]

But here’s the real question: if we did not have socialistic programs and a nanny-state attitude in this country, would immigration even be an issue?

It would probably be a greater problem because we would be even a more prosperous nation. Everyone would be better off from the top down. We would also be better able to assimilate more people and use their labor as a resource.

 

[saayra]

Comment: We, as a prosperous nation, are obliged to welcome the foreigner. But our political authorities have the right to control the circumstances where and when the foreigner can enter. In this country, those controls are established in Title 8 of the United States Code.

The question that opened this thread was:

Is the church spending to much resources on supporting illegal immigration at the expense of legal immigrants and citizens? Or do you feel that the church should do more to support illegal immigration?
In light of the above, I think the actions of many in the Church hierarchy are inappropriate. Political action to protect aliens unlawfully present (and who have entered the country illegally) is in direct violation of the law and of the CCC (para 2238 and 2239). If they care to point out what in the law is unjust and encourage the change of those portions of the law, that would be one thing…but taking actions to encourage people to break the law and then working to hide fugitives from the law (check the references to the US Code, above, if you question whether or not those folks here illegally have broken the law or not…to include minors smuggled in by their parents) is morally reprehensible.

But here’s the real question: if we did not have socialistic programs and a nanny-state attitude in this country, would immigration even be an issue?

Mmmmmm… good point. On last night’s news we heard that there are 350,000 babies born to illegals in this country annually. We heard that many women cross the border specifically to give birth, hence automatic citizenship and all it’s benefits. This is such a huge burden for some states that they are re-examining the 14th Amendment. It was enacted in 1868 for the children of black slaves. In 1900 it was used to give citizenship to the children of Chinese who were here legally. In the 1950’s children of guest workers were not given citizenship. The key, they said, was “direct allegiance”.

Some who posted here would say that illegals are here for jobs and are not needy.
deb 216 wrote:

What makes you assume that illegal immigrants are in need? The only thing many of them need is a change in status. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
I stand by what I said. Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars into the system. To say otherwise is dishonest.

Thank you for weighing in on what the US Code says regarding illegal immigration and also what the Catechism of The Catholic Church states. I was beginning to feel a bit beat up for not agreeing with those who label my concerns as heartless, ignorant, and apathetic to the needs of those who cross our borders illegally. I do feel compassion for the plight of Mexican people whose own country is not providing them with a decent standard of living. To say that their social services are inadequate would be an understatement. For many of them, the socialistic programs are definitely what draws them here.

So, back to the question that originally opened this thread. No, the Church should not do more to support illegal immigration. Yes, they should provide compassionate care for those in need. Where the difficulty arises is in defining how to humanely deal with desperate people without breaking the laws of the land.

 

[redpepper]

The belief that we are morally obligated to facilitate the presence of illegals among us by providing for their needs is untrue: the bishops have not defined any specific response as a moral obligation. Ender

I think our disagreement is based on what you believe is “facilitate the presence of illegals among us by providing for their needs”. I do not think that Church does such thing. She is doing what She is been doing for centuries. Helping the poor and persecuted without discrimination. I do not think we are obliged to do the same but encouraged to take responsibility.

The statements issued by bishops also said:

“We must also recognize distinctions in the debate: The legality of a person’s entry into the United States is one issue; our response to him now that he’s here is a separate one. The former is the government’s responsibility; the latter is also ours.”

Migration (legal/illegal) is a global problem. The USA would have the same problems even without Catholic Church helping immigrants. I think the blame should be placed where it belongs. Politicians (goverment, parlament).

 

[pnewton]

This is such a huge burden for some states that they are re-examining the 14th Amendment. .

This would be an issue that good Catholics can come on either side or. I would like to see it changed to exclude the border babies, But if it doesn’t happen soon, it will not happen at all. Legal issues like this are the the legitimate area of government and the Church should support the legitimate laws of a sovereign nation.

 

[Ender]

I think our disagreement is based on what you believe is “facilitate the presence of illegals among us by providing for their needs”. I do not think that Church does such thing. She is doing what She is been doing for centuries. Helping the poor and persecuted without discrimination.

I object to the attempt to portray the situation as solely about helping the poor. Ignoring the illegal behavior of someone and seeing only his needs (let alone confusing his wants with his needs) is a distortion of the problem; making a distinction between legal and illegal is a civic obligation, it is a great deal more than mere discrimination.

Migration (legal/illegal) is a global problem. The USA would have the same problems even without Catholic Church helping immigrants. I think the blame should be placed where it belongs. Politicians (goverment, parlament).

It is appropriate to place the blame on everyone who contributes to the problem - including the Church.

Ender

 

[D317]

You are all over the place! My comments are within the quote below.

I am definitely not nuts, thank you, and there are several things that affect my point of view on this issue, none of which are propaganda. I’ll try to break them down for you.

My husband is a foreman in the construction industry. The company has a strict policy of only hiring legal workers, and there is an established system of checks and balances. All applicants must have proof of identification and a valid social security number (SSN). All new hires are required to fill out an I-9 form, which is processed through Homeland Security.

…

Imagine 4 people using the same name, address, and SSN. One is legitimate, 3 are ghosts. As far as the system is concerned, one man works for 4 different companies, which is perfectly legal. There would only be a flag if one of them messed up.

When he is notified that an employee isn’t legal, my husband directs the guy to the office, where he will be discharged. He has known some of these guys for a long time without even suspecting that they were illegal. They are highly skilled workers who earn well above the minimum wage because they are paid according to the job that is done, not an hourly wage or salary.

[sign]You are now arguing against one of the key arguments of the pro-illegal immigrant crew: That illegals are only taking the “worst of the worst” jobs that “Americans” won’t perform.

Don’t know where you live, but illegal immigrants have reduced the average wage in the construction industry in Colorado and the contractors are keeping the windfall. [/sign]

Given the numbers that I have seen, based on actual checks that were paid to illegal immigrants, many of these men are paying hundreds of dollars in taxes per week. Multiply that times the number of months or years that it takes for the employee’s eligibility status to be discovered and you have a considerable amount of money.

…

Then there are the illegal immigrants who work in regular labor positions. They earn less and pay less in taxes, but there are a lot more of them so they are harder to keep track of. Like skilled laborers, they use fake ID’s to get hired but they are more likely to use stolen or invented SSN. They get caught more often, but they are not married to their identity. If one name is flagged, they will simply be reborn the next day under a new name and number. Because their “work” name is not associated with their “real” name, it isn’t difficult.

I think that if you give serious consideration to the size and scope of the situation, you will see that, if anything, my numbers are are modest.

[sign]Your numbers may be modest, but they are totally unsubstantiated.[/sign]

There is a flaw in your reasoning, and it is based on a false assumption. A family of 4 that earns $45,000 per annum may pay nothing in taxes, but that is based on overall tax liability. To say they paid no taxes is misleading. The taxes are paid throughout the year and then refunded.

[sign]OK, so net/net what do they not retain?? Lets see, my math tells me it is a wash & they have paid 0 in tax. If I give you a dollar and then you give me the dollar back, do you still owe me a dollar?? PLEEEASE!! You’ve got to do better than this weak stance.[/sign]

The flaw is that that illegal immigrants do not file for tax returns, so the tax monies that are withheld do not get refunded. Ergo, the IRS keeps the money.

Why would they not file for a refund? Because people who want to keep their jobs avoid flagging the system. Multiple claims to the IRS for the same SSN would be a huge red flag, as would a claim that only includes one of many w-4’s. Taxes paid to a fake SSN wouldn’t get refunded, so there is no reason to submit a claim.

What makes you assume that illegal immigrants are in need? The only thing many of them need is a change in status. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.

[sign]If illegal immigrants are NOT in need, where is all of the federal, state, local, and charitable money going??? Is everyone making up the cost of illegal immigration? Are you the only one that really sees this as a financial boon to the US?[/sign]

I stand by what I said. Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars into the system. To say otherwise is dishonest.

[sign]
And if they pay $5 billion into the “system” and take $10 billion out, they are still a drain on resources. What is dishonest is your half-truth and attempting to twist “paying” with the total economic reality.
[/sign]

 

[D317]

You are mistaken.

1. Illegal immigrants can and do purchase homes.

• Illegal immigrants can be married to a citizen, and purchase the home in the spouses’ name.
• Illegal immigrants can have children who are citizens and purchase the home in the child’s name.
• It is legal for an illegal immigrant to purchase a home in his own name, without a SSN. It is just more difficult to secure funding.

1. School funding is not a simple equation.

• Property taxes only account for 30-50% of school funding, with the balance being divided by the state and the federal government.
• The State and Federal government derives its funding from taxes, which illegal immigrants do pay.
• It will vary by state and district, but enrollment is a determining factor in school funding. Using your example, the school with 20 students and the school with 40 students would not get the same $100. The school with 40 students would get more.
• While per pupil spending is static, categorical funding is not. If school A has 40 students and school B has 40 students, but school B has a high Title 1 population, school B will get more funding. English as a second language is a Title 1 classification
  Its pretty easy to blame illegal immigrants for the schools being overcrowded, but that doesn’t make the argument valid.

There you go again! Your point 1 is nothing more than silly gamesmanship. There is a BIG difference in what CAN happen, as you put it, and what really happens. If they are married to a citizen, they have recourse to citizenship. Why don’t they take it? You make it sound like actually being able to PAY for a home is a secondary consideration. I guess that is why we have the current mortgage collapse.

Point 2 is also silly. Based on your argument, there should be absolutely no problems funding schools; but yet the problem exists and is exacerbated by illegal immigrants.

Your attempts to obfuscate the problem are pathetic. If you substitute “bank robber” (or any other criminal) for illegal immigrants the silliness of your position becomes clear.

 

[D317]

I simply LOVE all this bantering! It makes for a good read…do you all know that it’s ALL in God’s hands and HIS plans for us? If a person is standing in front of me, I can see him, touch him, feel him, he is there. I need to love him and help him however I can. Mother Teresa said “Do not come to Calcutta, find your own Calcutta.” Meaning help those you can here and now, right in front of you. I do ask this: What would cause you to pick up your 3 kids ages 8, 9 and 12, and walk them through the desert, literally? The only answer I come up with is Desperation! Peace to all and Merry Christmas…

I agree with you that we have found our Calcutta. The difference is that the poor in the streets of Mother Teresa’s Calcutta were not breaking the laws of India. We should provide comfort and compassion and help them get back home. The issue of desperation is not universal among the illegal immigrants. Very often it is that they see our poor stewardship as an avenue to their economic prosperity without becoming law abiding citizens. God bless.

 

[D317]

This would be an issue that good Catholics can come on either side or. I would like to see it changed to exclude the border babies, But if it doesn’t happen soon, it will not happen at all. Legal issues like this are the the legitimate area of government and the Church should support the legitimate laws of a sovereign nation.

Amen. We should be concentrating on compelling the bishops from their homeland to do more for them IN their homeland.

 

[CANTABRIALAND]

After mass was over I went to confront the priest and tell him to reserve his personal feeling about Immigration, I toll him about the respect of the Land, to Give Cesar what belongs to Cesar and to God what belongs to God. I also toll him that the Rich people not all are bad and that the poors of this planet are not all that good. That forgivme for my arrogancy, but I could not take adoctrination specially saying that it was immoral . Immoral have been all the Sexual abuses from priests, Homosexuals, and lesbians in church and monastery. Maybe is not pious the law of the country about the immigrants who brake the laws, but it was the law (Cesar’s law). You know I feel very bad, my conciens does not feel guilty for what I said, but I ask myself, why I am still catholic. My answer is for the Blessed Sacrament and the Eucarist. Help me please.

 

[drthomas_21]

Hola,

I think that you made a great point that not all rich people are bad and not all poor people are good. Sometimes the Church appears to take that stand.

David R Thomas sends…

 

[HM8404]

Illegal Immigrant Supporters:

If a person entered your house without your permission demanding that you give them food, shelter and clothing…would you call the Police?

That’s what illegal immigration amounts to on a much, much, much smaller scale.

 

[Just_wondering]

Illegal Immigrant Supporters:

If a person entered your house without your permission demanding that you give them food, shelter and clothing…would you call the Police?

That’s what illegal immigration amounts to on a much, much, much smaller scale.

Except that many illegal immigrants come here to get jobs. So, if a person entered your house without your permission and started doing your laundry, would you call the police?

I have been an illegal migrant worker in the past. I had a job. Taxes were deducted from my paycheque which I could not get back, although my salary was low, because I was not registered. When I was sick I paid cash for medical treatment. I did not demand that someone provide me with housing. I did not demand that someone provide me with food. I did not demand that someone provide me with clothing. When you’re an illegal, you have too much fear to approach people for charity.

After a few months, my employer (who arranged for my illegal stay) arranged for me to get a legal (non-permanent) working visa. Once I had that, I was locked in. My employer began to make illegal deductions from my salary. I was paid half of what I was promised. I had no recourse because my employer could cancel my visa and have me deported at any time. It was once I was legal that I needed help. Once I was legal, I needed food. Once I was legal, I couldn’t afford to buy a winter coat. Once I was legal, I had to borrow someone else’s medical insurance card and ID to get treatment for an injury.

In my experience (although I’m not American and have never lived there) illegal immigrants are not the drain on society that people accuse them of being. It’s corrupt citizens who take advantage of those who have no voice that are the problem.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Illegal Immigrant Supporters:

If a person entered your house without your permission demanding that you give them food, shelter and clothing…would you call the Police?

That’s what illegal immigration amounts to on a much, much, much smaller scale.

What has an illegal immigrant done to hurt you?

 

[saayra]

What has an illegal immigrant done to hurt you?

Funny you should ask. I won’t be the only one who answers this one. Let me give you just one example. You can’t honestly claim that black tar heroin doesn’t enter this country along with many of the illegals. Presently my son’s girlfriend lies in a coma because of her dealings in the drug world. She is not expected to survive. Another person is dead. My son is totally messed up because he decided to try the stuff too. An infant is now without a mother and her father is useless. I get to raise the infant…not exactly in the budget for a retiree who also has less energy that a young parent. The child has been severely tramatized because her mother did not seek medical attention for MRSA that the child has. Where did the MRSA come from you ask? Mama’s use of heroin, that’s where. I wish you could have been in the hospital when the child suffered through getting an IV inserted and going through a painful surgery with strangers all around her. I was a stranger to my own grandchild you see because heroin users don’t come around. Just in case you’re not familiar with MRSA, it is often deadly. Who is going to pay the bill for all this? That includes medical bill and social services bills as well. The America taxpayer, that’s who. And it is a big bill!

 

[D317]

I have seen supporters of the illegal immigration issue argue exactly opposite sides of the same question. One supporter says that the illegal immigrants are taking only the lowest paying jobs in order to argue for more charitable treatment; and then another supporter says that they have great paying jobs to argue against those who say that illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes. I don’t believe that the debate is about the pay scale for illegals. It is deeper than that. It is about America.

Everyone believes, I hope, that one of the things that makes America such a great country is that it has been a melting pot, a place where new arrivals can blend in, mix with Americans, get a job, support their family, become a member of our society, and raise their children. Previous generations of legal immigrants wanted a new start, they wanted an opportunity to improve their lives, they wanted to contribute to the country which presented the opportunities they sought. This required assimilation and did not require loosing their identity.

The operative term is melting pot. We are rapidly loosing this aspect of what made our country the single greatest place on God’s green earth to live (save the Garden of Eden!). Not just socially, but spiritually.

The environment we see today injures all Americans, both natural and naturalized. The inflow of illegal immigrants today want America to be a large salad bowl, not a melting pot where the American culture can grow and flourish. They want a “country within a country” as their right.

Most of the illegal immigrants want to be separate, want nothing to do with America and its values, and are looking for a superior economic remuneration. In fact, many want to simply work here and eventually return home with the money they save. They want to extract benefits without making lasting contributions; unlike virtually all previous generations of legal immigrants that have blessed our country. Today, some even advocate the overthrow of the US Government and the seizing of US territory for their own purposes.

I was surprised to read that many of the Catholic illegal immigrants are falling away from the faith. They see Catholicism in America as “a poor mans religion.” They have fallen prey to the lies of secular america (lack of capitalization intended). They see consumerism as the goal and this increases the desire to extract and not contribute. Isn’t this what Catholics want to fight against, the “me” society of taking without giving? To fight against a society that values “me” and not the unborn?

To add insult to injury, illegal immigrants send $45 Billion out of the US every year. The arguments in support of this practice are shallow since the dollars are fungible once they depart the US. No one really knows what happens to the money.

This is a big number. I’ve run some economic models based on a variety of assumptions. To have this large an outflow of cash from an average family and still maintain a lower middle class lifestyle, they would need to earn about $25/hour. If we assume that they only average $10/hour, they are living on a disposable income of about $7,000 a year.

It is easy to see why our resources to help these illegal immigrants are strained. Virtually all of them would need some type of assistance constantly. This assistance is to support their lives while sending their own hard earned money out of the country. Is this social justice?

I’m a big advocate of Social Justice. Unlike many of my brothers and sisters in Christ who argue for Social Justice, I argue that Social Justice as taught by the Catholic Church has two sides: the expected and the expectations. One side is right to expect certain things and the other side is right to have expectations from them.

For example, Social Justice demands that the worker is paid a fair wage; but it doesn’t stop there. Social Justice also demands a good days work for those wages. We must address both sides since I haven’t found a one-sided coin yet.

Legal immigration (which is an element of Social Justice) is the best method of ensuring we maintain a melting pot and not a salad bowl. Social Justice demands that we obey the laws of the just authorities of the country in which we live.

Illegal immigrants are our brothers & sisters in Christ and they should expect compassion, basic necessities, and warm hearts. The expectation is that they follow the prescribed laws to become legal citizens without “jumping the lines” or other more favorable treatment that those who follow the laws. If this means returning to their homeland to start the process, that is the expectation of Social Justice.

Are there exceptions to what I’ve said? Sure; but the exceptions should be handled as exceptions and not applied to the whole. It is a tough problem with no easy answers. But then, we all know that the Church teaches that we must struggle to attain what is good and just.

God bless us all.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Funny you should ask…

So your son dated an illegal immigrant who hid her illegal status, and drug addiction from him?

 

[saayra]

So your son dated an illegal immigrant who hid her illegal status, and drug addiction from him?

Sounds like you wish to ignore what I really said rather than address it.

 

[Just_wondering]

Let me give you just one example. You can’t honestly claim that black tar heroin doesn’t enter this country along with many of the illegals.

Do you have any proof whatsoever as to the immigration status of the people importing heroin? Because it strikes me that it’s way easier for legals to do it than illegals - legal immigrants just need to find a way to hide it as they cross the border. I was under the impression that drug mules tended to be either citizens or legal immigrants who look squeaky-clean but are hiding their dark side.