Illegal Immigration

[melekali]

There was a post in here with a very curious response from the “apologist” and I thought this needed more discussion. I hope this is okay to do this. The response intimates that listening to priests and bishops on this issue is something important because of their roles. While in some respects I agree with the apologist, just because a priest or bishop has a thought does not make it noteworthy or even right. The magisterium, much less individual priests or bishops, are protected from error in this area inasmuch as it does not deal with faith and morals (which only bishops in an ecumenical council and the Pope from the chair are protected from error), but rather current policy in controlling our borders, about which priests and bishops are generally not experts, but are just like you and I, they have their opinions.

I would offer that those who are here in this country illegally are doing what is wrong. The reason is not important. What exacerbates the problem is that US citizens are hiding these people so they may remain here illegally with no intention of becoming citizens. This is problematic at best and criminal at worst.

Here’s what I think we ought to do about it. We ought to offer an amnesty that give those here illegally 1-2 years to become citizens without any sanctions or penalties, with the exception of those who are already convicted felons. Adding hard working people as citizens of this country is in our best interest and the best interest of the people here illegally. After the time runs out we ship them to their home country. There will be unique circumstances and they ought to be dealt with justly. Those Americans who are hiding illegals ought to suffer criminal penalties for so doing, usurping our law, unless those they are hiding and protecting become citizens.

What do people think about that? What do the bishops and priests think about that, I wonder?

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		 		 		 		 	   	 	 		 	  		  		 			 			 				http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif 				**Is it a sin to oppose illegal immigration?** 			
		 			 		  		 		 			 			I think of myself as a good Catholic. I believe in supporting and  caring for the poor and innocent, and I believe that anyone who wants to  immigrate to the United States should. I also believe anyone who  immigrates should do so legally, and that illegal immigration should not  be tolerated.  Illegal aliens should be encouraged to return home until  they can come over legally.  Yet, judging by what's been said by  bishops, priests, etc., is it a sin to feel the way I do about the  issue? 		
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		 		 		 		 	   	 	 		 	  		  		 			 			 				http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif 				**Re: Is it a sin to oppose illegal immigration?** 			
		 			 		  		 		 			 			No, it is not a sin, but it would certainly be imprudent to close  your mind to the opinions of priests and bishops on the issue.  Keep in  mind that Catholic clergy often work closely with immigrants, legal and  illegal, and know better than we do the struggles they face and the  legitimate needs that they have.  The opinions of priests and bishops on  this issue are often shaped by these experiences and so deserve a fair  hearing and careful consideration. 		
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[melekali]

Cannot edit the original, so I need to update this omission which changes the meaning considerably.

First paragrah, in part should read: The magisterium, much less individual priests or bishops, are NOT protected from error in this area inasmuch as it does not deal with faith and morals

 

[Elizabeth502]

I would offer that those who are here in this country illegally are doing what is wrong. The reason is not important.

Ah, but I maintain (so do many others) that the reason is important. Because the reason is the heart of the problem, and until the reason is addressed, the pressure to immigrate will maintain and even increase. We cannot force another country to change, but we can use our power in a social justice manner by forging more effective policies with Mexico in particular because we have a much tighter relationship with them than with most of the other Latin American countries from which most of the illegal immigration proceeds. The point is to demonstrate creatively and persuasively to Mexico the long-range benefit to them in supporting entrepreneurship and education within their own country, and to give them incentives to make those changes. Yes, the officials are used to the antiquated corruption which now fills their pockets, but much of this is simply habit and lack of vision on their part. The corruption is so ingrained into the political culture that there’s resistance to change. I am actually quite hopeful that our country can persist if the solutions are framed attractively to Mexico. Calderon is a bright guy and also very business-savvy. That’s addressing the social justice issue realistically, in a way that has promise because it’s focused on outcomes, not theory. All true, honest social justice has practical solutions as the key focus, or it’s just Hot Air that’s not worth much. (Same as the empty rhetoric so many politicians get accused of.)

From our end, here’s a link to the Schumer-Graham proposal. It has some good points. The part about community service is something I suggested many years ago.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/17/AR2010031703115.html

Just understand that to be effective, any proposal must recognize the two-way dynamic between the two countries. It has to continue to be worked on from both directions. Some way for an amnesty provision to be linked to a moratorium on money sent back to Mexico (finding some way to accomplish that) would encourage, virtually force, Mexico to find internal ways to fuel its economy, which is a far better and more permanent, honest, socially just orientation.

 

[hazmatdude]

If a priest says he is for illegal immigration and another says he is against it it is just their opinion. You are not required to follow their opinion as though it was a dogma of the Church.

Regarding an amnesty for all illegal aliens currently residing in the US. It has not worked in the past and it will not work again because there will be another illegal alien to start the ball rolling again until we get tough and enforce the laws on the books and seal our borders. Better yet we should just adopt the laws relating to illegal immigration already on the books in Mexico. See the 4-28-10 article by Michelle Malkin at Townhall,com.

The only fair solution is one that is fair to US citizens. Our last concern should be for those who thumbed their noses at our laws and now demand rights that they are not entitled to.

 

[rodomonte]

Ah, but I maintain (so do many others) that the reason is important. Because the reason is the heart of the problem, and until the reason is addressed, the pressure to immigrate will maintain and even increase. We cannot force another country to change, but we can use our power in a social justice manner by forging more effective policies with Mexico in particular because we have a much tighter relationship with them than with most of the other Latin American countries from which most of the illegal immigration proceeds. The point is to demonstrate creatively and persuasively to Mexico the long-range benefit to them in supporting entrepreneurship and education within their own country, and to give them incentives to make those changes. Yes, the officials are used to the antiquated corruption which now fills their pockets, but much of this is simply habit and lack of vision on their part. The corruption is so ingrained into the political culture that there’s resistance to change. I am actually quite hopeful that our country can persist if the solutions are framed attractively to Mexico. Calderon is a bright guy and also very business-savvy. That’s addressing the social justice issue realistically, in a way that has promise because it’s focused on outcomes, not theory. All true, honest social justice has practical solutions as the key focus, or it’s just Hot Air that’s not worth much. (Same as the empty rhetoric so many politicians get accused of.)

From our end, here’s a link to the Schumer-Graham proposal. It has some good points. The part about community service is something I suggested many years ago.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/17/AR2010031703115.html

Just understand that to be effective, any proposal must recognize the two-way dynamic between the two countries. It has to continue to be worked on from both directions. Some way for an amnesty provision to be linked to a moratorium on money sent back to Mexico (finding some way to accomplish that) would encourage, virtually force, Mexico to find internal ways to fuel its economy, which is a far better and more permanent, honest, socially just orientation.

Social Justice does not require us to cede our national sovereignty to 20 million invaders from a Third World country who wish to maintain their language and culture and transform our language and culture to theirs. In several generations, the Sunday masses will all be in Spanish, save for one in English. The average annual per capita income in Mexico is $13,000, so I don’t think it is Third World anymore. No one in Mexico is starving to death. If you want to send money to Mexico to help the poor there, feel free. Just don’t force me to choose illegals as the object of my charity, or as the beneficiary of my taxes. I will spend my charitable contributions on US citizens. There are 28 spanish language radio stations in Los Angeles, Mexico, for a reason.

This is not about Social Justice. It is about politics versus the law. Politics always trumps the law, in this case, the immigration laws which are enforced only in a token manner anyway.

From The Apologist:

"No, it is not a sin, but it would certainly be imprudent to close your mind to the opinions of priests and bishops on the issue. Keep in mind that Catholic clergy often work closely with immigrants, legal and illegal, and know better than we do the struggles they face and the legitimate needs that they have. The opinions of priests and bishops on this issue are often shaped by these experiences and so deserve a fair hearing and careful consideration. "

I live in Arizona and support SB1070. Cardinal Mahoney has called me a Nazi, so you can tell how much I value his opinion, or even the opinion of the USCCB. Anyone who fails to see the connection between the Church’s position and the fact that 70% of Catholics in Los Angeles are Hispanic must be blind.

The Church has never done anything to uplift the living conditions and culture of African-Americans, as they now do for Hispancis. Thirty-five years after I graduated from a Catholic High School in the mid-west, I queried them about how many black students they had. They refused to tell me until I proved I was an alumnus. The answer was zero, the exact same number they had when I went there.

The Church’s mission is to save souls, not to save bodies, for the poor will always be with us. The Church’s position on illegal immigration is scandalous. Do they even care how many have left the Church over this issue? I doubt they have commissioned a study to find out.

Several years ago I got the USCCB to take down an anonymous editorial on illegal immigration from their website because it contained a factual inaccuracy. I called a number of Catholic officials to determine the source of the inaccuracy. Nobody really cared if it was inaccurate, only that is was politically correct. That experience shaped my opinion that the Church’s position on illegal immigration is fundamentally political. Now it is abundantly clear.

My church has left me, and vica versa.

 

[sidbrown]

Social Justice does not require us to cede our national sovereignty to 20 million invaders from a Third World country who wish to maintain their language and culture and transform our language and culture to theirs. In several generations, the Sunday masses will all be in Spanish, save for one in English. The average annual per capita income in Mexico is $13,000, so I don’t think it is Third World anymore. No one in Mexico is starving to death. If you want to send money to Mexico to help the poor there, feel free. Just don’t force me to choose illegals as the object of my charity, or as the beneficiary of my taxes. I will spend my charitable contributions on US citizens. There are 28 spanish language radio stations in Los Angeles, Mexico, for a reason.

This is not about Social Justice. It is about politics versus the law. Politics always trumps the law, in this case, the immigration laws which are enforced only in a token manner anyway.

From The Apologist:

"No, it is not a sin, but it would certainly be imprudent to close your mind to the opinions of priests and bishops on the issue. Keep in mind that Catholic clergy often work closely with immigrants, legal and illegal, and know better than we do the struggles they face and the legitimate needs that they have. The opinions of priests and bishops on this issue are often shaped by these experiences and so deserve a fair hearing and careful consideration. "

I live in Arizona and support SB1070. Cardinal Mahoney has called me a Nazi, so you can tell how much I value his opinion, or even the opinion of the USCCB. Anyone who fails to see the connection between the Church’s position and the fact that 70% of Catholics in Los Angeles are Hispanic must be blind.

The Church has never done anything to uplift the living conditions and culture of African-Americans, as they now do for Hispancis. Thirty-five years after I graduated from a Catholic High School in the mid-west, I queried them about how many black students they had. They refused to tell me until I proved I was an alumnus. The answer was zero, the exact same number they had when I went there.

The Church’s mission is to save souls, not to save bodies, for the poor will always be with us. The Church’s position on illegal immigration is scandalous. Do they even care how many have left the Church over this issue? I doubt they have commissioned a study to find out.

Several years ago I got the USCCB to take down an anonymous editorial on illegal immigration from their website because it contained a factual inaccuracy. I called a number of Catholic officials to determine the source of the inaccuracy. Nobody really cared if it was inaccurate, only that is was politically correct. That experience shaped my opinion that the Church’s position on illegal immigration is fundamentally political. Now it is abundantly clear.

My church has left me, and vica versa.

Everyone else has to obey the laws. And Our Lord said to render to Caesar what is due to Caesar. Our country has the right to protect its borders.

 

[SDMike619]

First of all I think good Catholics can have charitiable disagreements on this issue.

That being said I don’t think anyone is (or atleast shouldn’t be) in favor of illegal immigration. However my opinion is that these people should be treated humanly and families should stay together (many families have one or both parents without papers and citizen children).

While the United States has a responsiblity and obligation to control its borders, I believe hardworking and otherwise law abiding illegal immigrants should be able to do something (pay a fine and or community service, ect.) to gain legal status.

It is a big mess.

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Empress of the Americas, pray for us.

 

[Schmonka]

I do not think it is a sin to oppose illegal immigration. It seems to me it would be a sin to suport illegal immigration. Please consider my logic:

The Catholic church makes it clear that we are supposed to obey governmental laws unless it would be leading us into sin. Staying in your own country would not be a sin. Jesus didn’t move to another country even to avoid being crucified! And therefore, even while it is not a sin to leave your original country, it does seem to me to be a sin to be breaking the law of the new country. I agree with the basics of the commentator before me, in that the ideas and thoughts of the bishops are not necessarily accurate. And when the bishops’ teachings go against the teachings of the church, they definitely should not be followed. Illegal immigration is illegal – no matter what some bishops may say – and to support it is to support people in their sins, which surely won’t help any of you get to heaven.

Catholic doctrine – yes.

Opinions of bishops – not correct if they go against the teachings of the church.

 

[HyeDetroit]

Social Justice does not require us to cede our national sovereignty to 20 million invaders from a Third World country who wish to maintain their language and culture and transform our language and culture to theirs. In several generations, the Sunday masses will all be in Spanish, save for one in English.

You’re really ignorant. Invaders? Think human beings. How come so many Europeans were allowed to come here? Also, the USA does not have an official language. What would you define as “American” culture? There are so many cultures in the USA…if you’re thinking apple pie, baseball, etc… you’re living in the past. Wake up, we’re not in the 20th century any longer.

I live in Arizona and support SB1070. Cardinal Mahoney has called me a Nazi, so you can tell how much I value his opinion, or even the opinion of the USCCB.

Oh, the same law that’s a copycat of laws in Nazi Germany in 1933? What gives law enforcement the right to randomly stop people and ask for documentation? Last time they did that was to persecute Jews.

It’s apparent that you’re racist. And by the way, there are 2 million black Catholics in The USA, so do some research before you post.

 

[rodomonte]

Oh, the same law that’s a copycat of laws in Nazi Germany in 1933? What gives law enforcement the right to randomly stop people and ask for documentation? Last time they did that was to persecute Jews.

It’s apparent that you’re racist. And by the way, there are 2 million black Catholics in The USA, so do some research before you post.

That is the big lie propagated by the left. SB1070 is a copycat law of other US laws, to make sure it is constitutional. You obviously didn’t even bother to read the new law. Open borders proponents like yourself never let the truth get in their way. You are just regurgitating what you have read about this law from Hispanic propaganda sites, without bothering to check the facts.

The Border Patrol has checkpoints set up on various roads and interstates in Arizona, where they check for drugs and illegals, so this is nothing new.

I voted for Jesse Jackson in a democratic primary in the past. I even voted for Obama, because I am independent politically.

When I lived in Sacramento in 1995 there was an article in the Sacramento Bee about a suburban parish where a black family would go down to the very first pew for Sunday mass, but no whites would ever join them in that pew. They eventually went to a different parish. Now that’s racism actually right in a Catholic church.

Satan’s biggest triumph has been getting people to believe he doesn’t exist. This is the perfect analogy for the Hispanic takeover of American, getting Americans to believe this is not what they want and this is not happening.

You can call me any name you want, but illegals will never get citizenship if I can help it.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Post charitably please.

 

[Supercatholic]

I AM OPPOSED TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. And let me tell you why. Illegal immigration is not the cause of our bad economy, but it is a contributing factor. Let me explain. An illegal gets hired. The person hiring him or her knows that person is illegal. The hirer takes advantage of that situation and offers a take it or leave it low wage. Since the wage is low, so are the payments to local and federal taxes. And since they receive low wages they can’t purchase the goods and services of other businesses, as much many of us are able to. Thus forcing those other businesses to either downsize or close up shop. Downsizing reduces individual taxes collected. Shut Downs illiminate business taxes that could have been collected. I also suspect a percentage of their (illegals) wages, however big or small, is sent to their homelands. Money not used in America without getting a good or service in return is BAD for America. And don’t forget the U.S. citizen who isn’t hired at a fair wage who would have payed a higher tax and could have purchased the goods and services of other businesses to prevent, or at least minimize their shut downs or downsizings , but is forced to collect welfare or unemployment which is a super heavy heavy strain against our tax system, which in turn causes our taxes to increase, but more and more of us are less able to pay those increases because there is less and less OF us. Like I said at the beginning of this post: Illegal immigration is not the cause of our bad economy, but it IS a contributing factor.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

I am opposed to illegal immigration. I do not think that opposing the fact that thousands upon thousands of people are breaking the law is wrong. I am in no way a racist and I even spent years studying Spanish so I can talk to people who do not speak English.

I work as a police officer. I consistently come across illegal immigrants committing crimes, many of them horrible crimes. We recently had a kidnap-for-ransom attempt by illegal immigrants–they are starting to bring that stuff up here from Mexico, where kidnaps are commonplace. If they aren’t going to bother obeying the law about coming here legally, why would we expect them to obey the other laws?

Many of the Latino immigrants I come across feel entitled to everything in this country. They do not learn English and have no plans to learn it. And why? Because everything is now available in Spanish. I have spoken with many Latinos who have requested a Spanish-speaking officer who have been in this country for YEARS and not bothered to learn a word of English. That is frustrating, especially when I have been called a racist many times by them IN SPANISH while speaking to them IN SPANISH.

One specific example I have of the entitlement mentality is a call I went on a couple months ago. Again, a Spanish-speaking officer was requested by a woman who has lived her (illegally) for over 10 years. She was reporting receiving threats via text and phone. Well, turns out the threats were from a former friend threatening to turn her in to Immigration. She actually called the police and expected the police to stop her friend from turning her in or even threatening to turn her in! She and her daughters did not understand that it was not a crime to call INS to report an ILLEGAL immigrant. I left them very unhappy with me that I was “not going to do anything”. Where in the world do these people get the idea that they can call the POLICE over things like this? They would never dream of doing that in Mexico. Oh, and this woman told me her (also illegal) husband has been in an American prison for a long time now. Just where I want my tax money going!

In Christ,
Rand

P.S. Anyone else concerned about “La Raza” being an organization? It means “The Race” and can you think of other groups that call themselves things like that?

 

[utah_rose]

I am opposed to illegal immigration. I do not think that opposing the fact that thousands upon thousands of people are breaking the law is wrong. I am in no way a racist and I even spent years studying Spanish so I can talk to people who do not speak English.

I work as a police officer. I consistently come across illegal immigrants committing crimes, many of them horrible crimes. We recently had a kidnap-for-ransom attempt by illegal immigrants–they are starting to bring that stuff up here from Mexico, where kidnaps are commonplace. If they aren’t going to bother obeying the law about coming here legally, why would we expect them to obey the other laws?

Many of the Latino immigrants I come across feel entitled to everything in this country. They do not learn English and have no plans to learn it. And why? Because everything is now available in Spanish. I have spoken with many Latinos who have requested a Spanish-speaking officer who have been in this country for YEARS and not bothered to learn a word of English. That is frustrating, especially when I have been called a racist many times by them IN SPANISH while speaking to them IN SPANISH.

One specific example I have of the entitlement mentality is a call I went on a couple months ago. Again, a Spanish-speaking officer was requested by a woman who has lived her (illegally) for over 10 years. She was reporting receiving threats via text and phone. Well, turns out the threats were from a former friend threatening to turn her in to Immigration. She actually called the police and expected the police to stop her friend from turning her in or even threatening to turn her in! She and her daughters did not understand that it was not a crime to call INS to report an ILLEGAL immigrant. I left them very unhappy with me that I was “not going to do anything”. Where in the world do these people get the idea that they can call the POLICE over things like this? They would never dream of doing that in Mexico. Oh, and this woman told me her (also illegal) husband has been in an American prison for a long time now. Just where I want my tax money going!

In Christ,
Rand

P.S. Anyone else concerned about “La Raza” being an organization? It means “The Race” and can you think of other groups that call themselves things like that?

La Raza is a radical organization just like some in the 60’s. And I believe those that are committing crimes should be deported AND required to be jailed in whatever country they came from.

It also bothers me that many of these people refuse to learn English. Our immigrant ancestors were required to and wanted to.

What really bothers me is that the Church instead of encouraging them to learn English has Spanish and bi-lingual Masses. It is really a dis-service to them because the children go on speaking it, and then wonder why they can’t get a decent job. If the Church is serious about immigration, these and other issues must be addressed.

 

[sidbrown]

I am opposed to illegal immigration. I do not think that opposing the fact that thousands upon thousands of people are breaking the law is wrong. I am in no way a racist and I even spent years studying Spanish so I can talk to people who do not speak English.

I work as a police officer. I consistently come across illegal immigrants committing crimes, many of them horrible crimes. We recently had a kidnap-for-ransom attempt by illegal immigrants–they are starting to bring that stuff up here from Mexico, where kidnaps are commonplace. If they aren’t going to bother obeying the law about coming here legally, why would we expect them to obey the other laws?

Many of the Latino immigrants I come across feel entitled to everything in this country. They do not learn English and have no plans to learn it. And why? Because everything is now available in Spanish. I have spoken with many Latinos who have requested a Spanish-speaking officer who have been in this country for YEARS and not bothered to learn a word of English. That is frustrating, especially when I have been called a racist many times by them IN SPANISH while speaking to them IN SPANISH.

One specific example I have of the entitlement mentality is a call I went on a couple months ago. Again, a Spanish-speaking officer was requested by a woman who has lived her (illegally) for over 10 years. She was reporting receiving threats via text and phone. Well, turns out the threats were from a former friend threatening to turn her in to Immigration. She actually called the police and expected the police to stop her friend from turning her in or even threatening to turn her in! She and her daughters did not understand that it was not a crime to call INS to report an ILLEGAL immigrant. I left them very unhappy with me that I was “not going to do anything”. Where in the world do these people get the idea that they can call the POLICE over things like this? They would never dream of doing that in Mexico. Oh, and this woman told me her (also illegal) husband has been in an American prison for a long time now. Just where I want my tax money going!

In Christ,
Rand

P.S. Anyone else concerned about “La Raza” being an organization? It means “The Race” and can you think of other groups that call themselves things like that?

According to Cardinal Mahony, it is crystal clear that God’s mandate is that aliens, non-residents, must be welcomed and embraced in their community.
abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7414604
According to Cardinal Mahony, "Immigrants are our neighbors, co-workers, students, and friends—and they contribute greatly to our nation and to our communities.

Instead of being side-tracked by heated rhetoric and political posturing, all of us should take the time to open our minds and hearts to hear the actual stories of the immigrants themselves."
facesofimmigrants.org/

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

According to Cardinal Mahony, it is crystal clear that God’s mandate is that aliens, non-residents, must be welcomed and embraced in their community.
abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7414604
According to Cardinal Mahony, "Immigrants are our neighbors, co-workers, students, and friends—and they contribute greatly to our nation and to our communities.

Instead of being side-tracked by heated rhetoric and political posturing, all of us should take the time to open our minds and hearts to hear the actual stories of the immigrants themselves."
facesofimmigrants.org/

Also according to Cardinal Mahoney, liturgical dance and various other abuses are allowed. According to Cardinal Mahoney, anyone who supported the Arizona law is a “Nazi”. Cardinal Mahoney is one of the most liberal bishops the Church has.

Cardinal Mahoney is not qualified to speak on matters of federal law in this instance. Me being against people breaking the law is not sinful or against Church teaching. I do not support people stealing, destroying property or assaulting others either.

And for the record, one of my closest friends, who is also a co-worker, came to this country illegally with his mother as a child. I know their story. They worked hard for their citizenship, learned English and do not feel entitled to everything. I have many other friends who are immigrants from Latin America and did it LEGALLY.

By the way, did you know that many of the most vocal supporters of Arizona’s law were LEGAL hispanic immigrants?

In Christ,
Rand

 

[sidbrown]

Also according to Cardinal Mahoney, liturgical dance and various other abuses are allowed. According to Cardinal Mahoney, anyone who supported the Arizona law is a “Nazi”. Cardinal Mahoney is one of the most liberal bishops the Church has.

Cardinal Mahoney is not qualified to speak on matters of federal law in this instance.

When a Cardinal speaks on a matter or faith and morals is it not part of the ordinary Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church? So when a Cardinal speaks on matters of faith and morals Catholics are required to obediently submit their intellect and will to the teaching? And according to Cardinal Mahony it is crystal clear that God’s mandate is that aliens, non-residents, must be welcomed and embraced. Now when a Roman Catholic bishop speaks about the mandate of Almighty God, is he not speaking about faith and morals?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

When a Cardinal speaks on a matter or faith and morals is it not part of the ordinary Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church? So when a Cardinal speaks on matters of faith and morals Catholics are required to obediently submit their intellect and will to the teaching? And according to Cardinal Mahony it is crystal clear that God’s mandate is that aliens, non-residents, must be welcomed and embraced. Now when a Roman Catholic bishop speaks about the mandate of Almighty God, is he not speaking about faith and morals?

No, this is not a matter of faith and morals. There is no official Church teaching on illegal immigration. It is the same as the death penalty. There is no official Church teaching saying the death penalty is or is not morally acceptable and therefore Catholics are allowed to make up their own minds on the issue. Evolution is not a matter of faith or morals, though there are bishops who have opinions on that too. Therefore, Catholics are allowed to make up their own minds on the issue. I am not obliged to simply follow what ONE Cardinal says about it. It is NOT a mandate of God to allow any illegal immigrant into our country that wants to come in. Having a law that they have to do it legally is perfectly just and not unChristian.

How Christian is it to illegally come to another country, not learn the language or culture, demand citizenship, a job, free healthcare, the right to drive and every other “right” you believe you are entitled to? What is so un-Christian about saying that people must come here legally???

In Christ,
Rand

 

[rev_kevin]

I live in Texas where illegal alians, (I’m not a politically correct person) run rampid. In my town there are illegals who think we owe them everything. They won’t learn english and if you don’t speak their language they laugh at you. They talk about you in their language but they don’t know my wife is half spanish who looks white and speeks spanish and she comfronts them in spanish and the look on their faces when she does that is priceless. The automatically stop talking. Here almost every job requires that you are bilingual and in ( ) it says “spanish.” Business that were once english run and speeking are now spanish speaking and spanish run. If you are not a Mexican and go into their store they make you feel unwelcome and look at you as if to say “what are you doing here gringo.” The side of town that they mainly live used to be considered the nice side of town, but that has changed, Its like going into a 3rd world country. The city is trying to clean it up but the residents there want the city to pay for fixing their houses and thing like that.

Now I am by far a racists. But something has got to be done about this illegal alian problem. First our government needs to enforce the existing immigaration laws. They need to tighten up on the borders, like putting the military there to stop it and not just to be observers with no power to arrest or not even being able to comfront them. They need to crack down on the santurary cities by cutting their funding for breaking federal laws by harbering illegals. They need to crack down on business that give jobs to illegals and close down the business that are run and owned by illegals. Many of them have been living here for years and never bothered to learn english because they don’t need to because your government puts everything in english and spanish, so as long as they keep doing that there is no need to learn english and that needs to stop. As far as the children that are born here by illegal parents, otherwise known as anhcor babies. The parents need to make a choice, if you want to keep your family together take your children back to your home country or give them up to the authorities but ya can’t stay here. Sorry if it seems cold hearted.
Amnisty is not a option. What you are saying by giving millions of them amnisty is “its ok if you broke our laws, don’t worry about it we will reward you with citizenship. Now you may have to pay a 2000 or 5000 dollar fine but thats all and you are a citizen.” What about the thousands that are on the waiting list for years and years waiting to do it the legal way. I want them first instead of the ones who came her illegally, at least they respect our laws.
Religion has nothing to do with this. Some site that we are all Gods children and we are to care for the needy. All fine and good if you want to care for them then let them go back home country and you can provide them financially by sending them money every week to live on. Its not inhumane or un christi;an like to send them back to their home country and demand they go by the rule of law and come here the legal way. Its like the sayings go: When in Rome do what he Romans do. or Give to Cesar what is Cesar. If your in America do as the Americans do. (speak english) or Give to the Americans what is the Americans {respect our laws)

 

[sidbrown]

Religion has nothing to do with this.

This is where it appears to me that Roger Cardinal Mahony strongly disagrees with this, since he says that it is crystal clear that God’s mandate is that aliens, non-residents, must be welcomed and embraced. When a bishop, archbishop or cardinal speaks on matters of faith and morals and officially sets up a web page to teach what is a sacred mandate from Almighty God, I thought that it would be part of the authentic ordinary and authoritative magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church and Catholics are bound in obedience to give assent to these moral teachings and mandates from God, unless directed otherwise?