Illinois bishop faces challenging audience at talk on same-sex marriage

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gracepoole said:
Those who are not Catholic (or Christian or even Jewish) are not ipso facto relativists.
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I realize this.

But what does that have to do with your original point: *(And I do trust that everyone knows that relativism isn’t the natural opposite of Catholicism.)

*In stating that relativism isn’t the natural opposite of Catholicism, you are, in essence, stating that there is some point of intersection where relativism and Catholicism can co-exist (rather than being 180 degrees out of phase, they may be closer in phase…).

So what does that have to do, one way or the other, with the existence of moral absolutists who are members of other religions?
 
markomalley said:
I realize this.

But what does that have to do with your original point: *(And I do trust that everyone knows that relativism isn’t the natural opposite of Catholicism.)

*In stating that relativism isn’t the natural opposite of Catholicism, you are, in essence, stating that there is some point of intersection where relativism and Catholicism can co-exist (rather than being 180 degrees out of phase, they may be closer in phase…).

So what does that have to do, one way or the other, with the existence of moral absolutists who are members of other religions?
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Gotcha. Instead of my original language, then, go with this: “Those who are not Catholic (or Christian or even Jewish) are not ipso facto relativists.”

If someone wants to question my Catholicism, I can’t stop him or her. But even if I’m not a true Catholic, I am not a relativist.
 
gracepoole said:
Gotcha. Instead of my original language, then, go with this: “Those who are not Catholic (or Christian or even Jewish) are not ipso facto relativists.”

If someone wants to question my Catholicism, I can’t stop him or her. But even if I’m not a true Catholic, I am not a relativist.
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Had you said that, I would not have interjected myself.

Carry on. 😛
 
. Quote:
Originally Posted by markomalley
Had you said that, I would not have interjected myself.
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Carry on.
I truly appreciate the time you’ve taken to help me identify my original error.
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🤷

So that’s it hunh? Y’all cool now?

You allowed yourself to get wrapped around the axle on relativism * I would still call her an enemy of Catholicism. If enemy is too strong a word, think of another that describes the lengths you’ve had to go to defend its tenets here.*
 
Least said:
🤷

So that’s it hunh? Y’all cool now?

You allowed yourself to get wrapped around the axle on relativism * I would still call her an enemy of Catholicism. If enemy is too strong a word, think of another that describes the lengths you’ve had to go to defend its tenets here.*
The reason why I engaged in the discussion was that she implied that relativism was acceptable in Catholicism. Apparently, that was not her intent. She corrected herself. That’s the end of that.

If you have a different argument, then I would take it up. Since she believes in the absolute authority of the Magisterium, it should be a pretty simple task.
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Least said:
🤷

So that’s it hunh? Y’all cool now?

You allowed yourself to get wrapped around the axle on relativism * I would still call her an enemy of Catholicism. If enemy is too strong a word, think of another that describes the lengths you’ve had to go to defend its tenets here.*

Least: I attended a Lenten retreat years ago on the Last Four Things. It was so powerful the words entered my soul. Our pastor told us that in order for us not to receive a damning judgement from the Lord, we must continually judge ourselves, our motivations and the emotions that drive us. Our own person must be only recipient of our judgment.

One can reasonably wonder why those who identify themselves as Catholic are on a Catholic forum at all while at odds with the Church. But we must trust they are following their own conscience. I worry more and pray for the lurkers who have a tenuous faith who might read comments that further put them in jeopardy. Our purpose is to defend the faith as best we can and just release the others to God. We simply cannot know their minds or hearts and I continually pray that their support of non-negotiable issues such as SS marriage, the infallible teaching on women priests and life issues not unduly influence struggling Catholics. I personally believe that some doubts (and personal beliefs contra to the faith) should be kept hidden from publicity and only exposed in the Confessional or during spiritual direction lest errant ways cause another to fall. Be at peace - God reads all hearts and knows exactly who His enemies are. It is not for us to say.
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Least: I attended a Lenten retreat years ago on the Last Four Things. It was so powerful the words entered my soul. Our pastor told us that in order for us not to receive a damning judgement from the Lord, we must continually judge ourselves, our motivations and the emotions that drive us. Our own person must be only recipient of our judgment.
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One can reasonably wonder why those who identify themselves as Catholic are on a Catholic forum at all while at odds with the Church. But we must trust they are following their own conscience. I worry more and pray for the lurkers who have a tenuous faith who might read comments that further put them in jeopardy. Our purpose is to defend the faith as best we can and just release the others to God. We simply cannot know their minds or hearts and I continually pray that their support of non-negotiable issues such as SS marriage, the infallible teaching on women priests and life issues not unduly influence struggling Catholics. I personally believe that some doubts (and personal beliefs contra to the faith) should be kept hidden from publicity and only exposed in the Confessional or during spiritual direction lest errant ways cause another to fall. Be at peace - God reads all hearts and knows exactly who His enemies are. It is not for us to say.
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Those who pray, have hope
Those who pray little, are in great danger
Those who do not pray, are lost.
~ St. Padre Pio ~
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Pray for America
Pray for the World!
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I AGREE, I DEFER,

I BEG THAT YOU PRAY FOR MY SOUL. For I am equally ate-up about it the other way. I feel very strongly, and completely, that we are indeed the Church Militant, and we have given too much ground already, if not too many “hills.” I feel we are talking about ground that has already been paid-for in blood, by quiet heros and saints. While I feel that it is ONLY HIS WILL that need be-done, HE has given me this Soul.

Postings like this are too frequent, and they are never-ending. I am merely using as strong a language as I can to say to all “take a run at me all you would like, but I am not lowering my bayonet and, GOD willing, my feet will not move.”

I attempt to take all argument here (philisophically speaking) immediately to its end-game, and deal with it as I would be compelled to deal with its final result. It ***feels like ***I am standing up for the Church, and for JESUS. I hope my guidance is ONLY from THE LORD, however (in any case), strategy cannot (safely) be ‘chucked’ entirely here. The best strategy is to follow your original instinct until you are certain that it is wrong (Carl Von Clausewitz).

I have prayed (on CAF and maybe within one of my previous posts here) that I not cause even the shadow of your foot to fall from the path that GOD has chosen for you (all), and I reiterate that here again.
 
If everyone on those fora agreed, there would be no need for discussions.
 
If everyone on those fora agreed, there would be no need for discussions.
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Right, and if the op was an invitation to the worst parts of the bible who cares? Right?

BTW. . . On that note…
so…natural law?
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A: naw heck, let’s squeeze as much unnatural law and worthless stuff in before we all have to transition to anything goes.

You know what liberals say, “The only thing worse than going to hell, is not having what sent you there fully out of your system when you go.”
 
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