I'm a Catholic at heart

M

Muckah

New member
I went to Catholic School up to the 8th grade and loved it. Other than one doctrine, I have no issues with Catholicism other than the Trinity doctrine. Many believers both Catholic and Protestant have issues with it. I've about lost my faith over it because I'm tired of other believers passing judgement on me even to the point of saying those of us who reject it are condemned.

I attended church regularly but have since lost my faith over this doctrinal issue. I haven't been to church going on 9 months because of this. I've lost my faith and so have millions of others over this ONE doctrine.

84% of Christians surveyed say Trinity is bogus.

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity?​

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity? | Christian Research Network
 
What exactly is your problem with it, if you don't mind my asking?

It is ultimately incomprehensible, so trying to figure it out isn't an option. Our Lord told his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The Trinity is right there in the Bible.
 
From the 11th century and before the scriptures read, "IN THE NAME OF JESUS". The rest was added later. I, as well as 84% of other believers, see several problems with it. Jesus said the Father is greater. Trinity teaches they are equal. ETC.! And, even IF the three are mentioned that doesn't constitute a co-equal Trinity by any means. Also, IF Jesus were the same - yet different person as God the Father, that creates a host of issues. Jesus was Tempted. God cannot be tempted. Therefore, Jesus cannot be God.

Maybe Hebrews 2:17 will help...

For this reason he had to be made like them,[fn] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
 
Numbers 23:19 KJV
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1 Samuel 15:29 KJV
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent\par

Hosea 11:9 KJV
I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Job 9:32 KJV
For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.\par

Hebrews 6:18
So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.

Numbers 23:19 KJV
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1 Samuel 15:29 KJV
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent

Hosea 11:9 KJV
I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Job 9:32 KJV
For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.\par

Hebrews 6:18
So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.

If they are equal, why did Jesus say in John 14:28

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I."

Why did he say in John 10:29,

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

And why did Jesus say in John 13:16

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him."
 
Most Trinitarians deny the historical development of the Trinity.
I shouldn't have to go through the uprisings between Athanasius and company, and Arius and company. And I shouldn't have to explain how and why Constantine responded the way he did.

The facts...

1. Jesus became God in AD 325 at the council of Nicaea.

2. The holy spirit became God in AD 381 at the council of Constantinople.

151 years after Jesus became God, he acquired two natures....

3. Then, because the Bishops of Rome could not resolve multiple "CO-EQUAL' contradictions, they overcame those contradictions in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES...the ultimate Trinitarian cop-out.

It took the bishops of Rome over 200 years to develop the Trinity doctrine

Since the word trinity isn't found in the bible or in the writings of the very church fathers, we don’t know for sure who coined the term ‘Trinity’. But the earliest documents that mention it are by Theophilus, bishop of Antioch in the late 2nd century which is over 150 years after Jesus. So, I think between Theophilus and company, and Tertullian and company, the term was coined.

Theophilus and other ancient Christians like Origen, Tertullian and Irenaeus, all believed that the Father is the one true God and that the Son and Holy Spirit are inferior to Him. However, in the late 2nd and early 3rd century after Tertullian went to Rome and converted, he and a few others began to entertain the idea about some sort of 'trinity.' It's likely the idea emerged from the many other pagan religions that had triads of gods.

Trinity teaches Jesus is co-equal to the God the Father in knowledge, power, and authority. However, Jesus said 'the Father is greater'. He said he doesn't know the day and hour of his return. He said he can do NOTHING on his own. Over and over again, Jesus acknowledges his subordination to the Father. How do Trinitarians overcome these clear contradictions of co-equality? The TWO NATURES - Trinity's most outstanding cop-out. That's precisely how over a hundred Bishops of Rome over the course of about 2-3 hundred years resolved these arguments. There was no overcoming the following contradictions any other way other than claiming Jesus has two natures.

His subordination to God -
The Father being greater -
Not knowing the day or hour of his return -
Not being able to do anything on his own -

Trinity (and pre-trib) is Christianity's most contentious and destructive doctrine. In my view, God, Jesus, and the holy spirit are not at all complicated but VERY simple to understand. My experience is that the correct interpretation of anything is usually the most simple, logical, and least contradictory one. Both Pre-trib and Trinity are the most diabolical, fabricated, and contradictory doctrines in Christianity.

Christianity is the most divided religion on earth and the most judgmental as well. I think John MacArthur is as much of a hypocrite and an A-hole as Ken Copeland. At least Copeland isn't a negativity preacher whereas MacArthur never has anything good to say about any one or any thing. People hold JM in high esteem and believe just about everything he teaches. His most outrageous teachings are he condemns those of us who reject Trinity and teaches that God will destroy the entire universe at the end on the Millennium. Paul Washer sucks too. Never an encouraging or uplifting word.

We should all be cautious believing others on the basis of their credentials or position. For example - John Macarthur. I don't like this man whatsoever.

Consider this...

We know that God cannot be tempted and cannot sin. IF Jesus WAS God, that means he's a fraud because that means he could not have been tempted to sin anyway making him a complete fraud and the cross a complete hoax!

Christianity is what I know but it's no longer my gig. I've become a member of the DONES AND NONES. Done with the religion of Christianity or any organized religion. Done with trinitarian Christians. I'll work out my own salvation void of Christianity.
 
No, the doctrine of the Trinity didn't emerge overnight, this doctrine, like many others, took time for the Church to discern. The deposit of faith was there, in primeval germ form, you could say, from the very beginning, but it took hundreds of years to sort it all out, and to find a way to express it.

I will just take one of your points. You start off by assuming that "God cannot be tempted". Christ became true man, and took on a human nature. Men can be and are tempted. Satan foolishly thought he could get Jesus to sin, to follow him instead of the Father, and thus somehow divide or drag down the Triune Godhead. He failed.

You say you are going to "work out [your] own salvation void of Christianity". Bear in mind what Our Lord said: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Me". From what you say, you once believed but now you do not. I pray you will find your way back to Him.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
No, the doctrine of the Trinity didn't emerge overnight, this doctrine, like many others, took time for the Church to discern. The deposit of faith was there, in primeval germ form, you could say, from the very beginning, but it took hundreds of years to sort it all out, and to find a way to express it.

I will just take one of your points. You start off by assuming that "God cannot be tempted". Christ became true man, and took on a human nature. Men can be and are tempted. Satan foolishly thought he could get Jesus to sin, to follow him instead of the Father, and thus somehow divide or drag down the Triune Godhead. He failed.

You say you are going to "work out [your] own salvation void of Christianity". Bear in mind what Our Lord said: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Me". From what you say, you once believed but now you do not. I pray you will find your way back to Him.
Click to expand...
Your comment - "I pray you will find your way back to Him." means you are passing judgment on me claiming I'm unsaved and not a Christian! See you later - I'm gone!

It didn't take long did it? Trinity - the most evil doctrine to ever enter Christianity!
 
Please help me here. You come into a CATHOLIC site, both guns blazing and THEN get upset that revealed truth is defended? It is unacceptable to you? And then when prayers are offered for you, they are also unacceptable? THEN you get butt hurt about being called back to the faith?
That, my good sir, is trolling. Have seen it thousands of times.

Q: Who was Jesus praying to in the garden? Himself? I reject an insane messiah.
Q: Who spoke from the clouds at Jesus' Baptism and at the Transfiguration? Is He a ventriloquist?
I find it extremely difficult to believe your introduction.
 
Last edited:
For this reason he had to be made like them,[fn] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
 
The OP has been banned, not for his theological position, but for use of profanity in two posts in a grossly contumacious manner on top of that.

Aside from the profanity-laced posts, I have left all of his other content intact.
 
Last edited:
Muckah said:
I went to Catholic School up to the 8th grade and loved it. Other than one doctrine, I have no issues with Catholicism other than the Trinity doctrine.
Click to expand...

And 7 hours later...
Muckah said:
you are passing judgment on me claiming I'm unsaved and not a Christian! See you later - I'm gone!
Click to expand...

That's got to be a record somewhere.

I didn't even have an opportunity to chime in.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
The OP has been banned, not for his theological position, but for use of profanity in two posts in a grossly contumacious manner on top of that.

Aside from the profanity-laced posts, I have left all of his other content intact.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your hard work. Thank you also for the strength to go through all the profanity. It is always good to have to defend our beliefs, whether to an unbeliever or just someone with questions. I noticed that back in the Catholic Answers days.
 
vz71 said:
And 7 hours later...


That's got to be a record somewhere.

I didn't even have an opportunity to chime in.
Click to expand...
Now it's Sunday May 18th (2025) and I just came across this. As I read I was composing a number of repies.
This being a chance to defend basic Catholic teaching I may keep it going, even if the OP can't read it.
Dominus tecum, Reg
 
The_Reginator said:
Thank you for your hard work. Thank you also for the strength to go through all the profanity. It is always good to have to defend our beliefs, whether to an unbeliever or just someone with questions. I noticed that back in the Catholic Answers days.
Click to expand...
It took no special strength, I've heard far worse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top