I'm a confused atheist

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pi314
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Erethorn, regarding your post a little earlier this afternoon, I understand perfectly your distain for those so-called preachers who were only out to build their own personal fortune off the “dumb sheep.” I think they are fairly easy to spot. They are nothing more than charlatans and preach the “Word of Me, Me, Me,” not the Word of God. Anyway, don’t be sorry about feeling that you’ve offended anyone. The only thing that’s required to participate on these threads is to be civil in your discourse and avoid degrading and insulting remarks to others who don’t share your position. As to your comment about “illusion,” let me assure you that it is no illusion. God is as real to believers as the sunrise and sunset, as real as every breath we take. Next, you expressed concern that reason was not compatible with faith. Personally, I am firmly convinced that it IS absolutely compatible with faith. You somehow want to make a sort of disconnect between reason and logic vis-a-vis faith, but one does not have to be a “dumb sheep” to have faith. Indeed, highly education men and women in the most intellectually demanding fields of endeavor have no difficulty in wearing their faith on their sleeves so to speak. I attended a college that offered the so-called Great Books curriculum and through that kind of educational training was molded to be a “critical thinker.” However, that background in no way interferes with my devotion to God and the Catholic Church, it only enhances it. As you so aptly characterized it, it is “too good not to be true.” That, my friend, is a statement that quite frankly gave me goose bumps, or as a dear friend of mine likes to say, “God bumps.” Enjoy the journey you are about to embark on.
 
Pi-
Sorry for the late post, but I had stubled upon it before and ment to reply but had to go to work. I’m so gald to see that you made the step to try faith on for size, and not only that, lead your mother to the same position… how beautiful! I know many people have suggested books to read, after you finish some of those, I’d suggest reading the Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn it is an excellent book about the Eucharist, but also shows how Hahn made his conversion to the Catholic faith. It also mentions a few refrences from the responses said at Mass. Good luck to you as you complete you semester. I hope you continue to find solitude in Mass. God bless you on your journey.
PS- When I was a college student I found a nearby parish that offered a daily noon Mass, it was a lovely way to stop, reflect, encounter the Lord, and get refreshed before my afternoon classes.👍
 
Ok. I will try to let out as much as I can.

First of all, I’m 33 years old, so my belief system has had a lot of time to “shape up”. In other words, my beliefs are quite strong.

Second, I am quite knowledgeable in religious matters; I have a degree in Philosophy and Logic, and I’ve been teaching these in high school for 5 years; I’ve studied and thought the teachings of both St. Augustine, St. Thomas of Aquinas and other religious figures. I love history and I know (or thought I knew) a lot about the history of different religions and about how those religions have shaped up the world we live in. What I mean to say is that I consider myself as intellectualy accomplished, and I have great respect for reason, doubt - the hallmark of philosophy - and science.

Third, I’ve been, all of my life, an outspoken atheist. I’ve rejected and loathed religion and religious people on both rational and moral grounds. You might call me a Dawkins poster boy.

My attitude towards religious people, men and women I saw kneeling in church or distributing religious literature was one, not of pity, not of avoidance, but of outright hate.
I used to consider myself superior to them. I considered the religious organizations to have two kinds of members - the shrewd, immoral and profiteering leaders, in the words of Bill Maher - “intellectual slaveholders” - who used manipulation of the worst sort to get money and power, and the dumb “sheep”, the vast majority of them so stupid that they deserved no better than to be taken advantage of.

In short, I considered religion a plague.

So, this is my background. I’m sorry if any of the above have offended anyone, it’s simply the truth, that’s who I was/am.

So, where do I stand now ? For the last few months, I find those atheistic beliefs, which I thought stood at the core of my being, my intellectual and moral system, starting to shatter.

And I can find no good reason. Why do I feel the need to go to Mass ? To pray ? To read and meditate on the Bible ? To read this forum ? To do a number of things I considered the trademark of inferior people ? And WHY do I feel good at Mass ? Why do I feel good when I think of Jesus ? Why do I feel so strongly that those things are true ?

Of course, one possible answer is that those things ARE true. If so, then I have started down a wonderful path. Later edit - and, that I will have a lot to atone for…
But what if it’s all an illusion ? What if I’m a doctor who, after studying alcoholics all his life, finally starts to drink and becomes one ?

On one hand, I feel that reason. as I love and cherish it, is not incompatible with faith. On the other hand, I fear that by embracing faith, I might be giving up reason and that my feeling is just a drug, or a cover up, just like the alcoholic deludes himself by claiming “I can quit whenever I want”.

I just don’t know. But I want so bad to believe. I want it to be true. It has to be. It’s too good to not be true. That’s how I feel now.

Please, pray for me. If it’s all true, it will surely be of help. If not, it doesn’t matter. I thank you for reading this, regardless.

Later edit - I’ve re read my post and I feel the need to apologize again for what I have described as my previous convictions, as they are certainly offensive for religious people.

I am deeply sorry, and I no longer hold those beliefs.
This is so wonderful, you are giving me hope for my loved ones who are hardcore intellectual atheists. 🙂

I have to say, I don’t know how you can read AND TEACH St. Thomas Aquinas, and still worry that faith and reason are incompatible! I’m a philosophy major, by the way.

I understand your fears because I felt some of them too when I began to convert, but I think it’s important not to be guided by fear. Fear is not rational. It’s instinctive and it clouds the mind. Both God and reason tell us, “Fear not.” Be patient and be guided by love. Praying for you.
 
First off, this might be in the wrong forum. I’m guessing. :\

So, I’m an atheist, have been for years. Suddenly the whole atheism thing isn’t feeling right. I feel like I’m missing something, but I can’t put my finger on what (I got into a good school, I love my job, I have wonderful friends). But it’s not something I can talk about to much of anyone. All my friends are atheists. All the professors I’m close to (and usually talk to) are atheists too. Anyone I talked to, if they know me, would think I’m a crazy hypocrite.
I guess what’s bugging me is this interest in God, and Catholicism specifically, having been an atheist for so long. I don’t like it when I don’t have a logical explanation for something. I don’t have an explanation for this. And it’s not like it’s been one day, it’s been almost a year of feeling like this. Seriously, I woke up one morning last December and thought “I should be a nun”. Which is ridiculous of course since I’m an atheist, and that’s like the extreme end of religion. But I can’t get that line of thinking out of my head.
I looked into becoming a Catholic, but then I always stop short, because everyone I know would think I’m a nutty hypocrite to change my mind like that.
I don’t even know what I’m talking about really. Just wanted to get it out… I’m just all confused. I kind of want to just go back to being confident and happy in my non-belief. It was easier.
The real hypocrisy is when we care so much about what others think we stay conformed to their values. It’s called pride and it was the hardest thing for me to get far enough past that I could even begin to consider God seriously. It not only separates us from Him but from ourselves as well. None of us are anywhere near as knowledgeable as we like to think. We don’t even have a logical explanation for why/how we’re here in the first place or what the purpose of it all is.
 
Wow, I had a lot to catch up on!

Erethron- First, I love the name! I’m a Tolkien fan too, I can even write the runic type of elvish/dwarfish. My friend and I used to write notes to each other in it. We seem to be very much in the same boat. I’m glad I’m not the only one. 🙂 I wish you luck on your journey, hopefully this will be a good thing for both of us. I shared a lot of your thoughts and attitudes towards people who followed a religion, and for me it’s hard to reconcile the hate I felt towards them with the acceptance I know feel from them. Even though I no longer hate people simply because they’re religious, I’ve got a lingering feeling of guilt for feeling that way in the past. I’m hoping I can move past and make up for that with how I act now.

I didn’t end up going to Mass on Wednesday. My train was late getting into the city, and so I missed it. Meh. I did go to a really awesome bookstore though, and did a little shopping there and the store was run by nuns. The one working there when I went was so sweet, I just loved her 🙂

Ugh, now I have to go back to studying. Funfun! :rolleyes:
 
I don’t mean to throw cold water on this thread, I just have some questions and observations if that’s ok.
Ok. I will try to let out as much as I can.

First of all, I’m 33 years old, so my belief system has had a lot of time to “shape up”. In other words, my beliefs are quite strong.
I don’t think age has a lot to do with convictions. You just said your beliefs are quite strong, yet here you are on a Catholic forum questioning your atheistic beliefs.
I have great respect for reason, doubt - the hallmark of philosophy - and science.
👍
Third, I’ve been, all of my life, an outspoken atheist. I’ve rejected and loathed religion and religious people on both rational and moral grounds. You might call me a Dawkins poster boy.
That sounds like an ideology to me. If Dawkins had his way he would treat bringing up a child in a faith based school akin to child abuse. Scary stuff.
My attitude towards religious people, men and women I saw kneeling in church or distributing religious literature was one, not of pity, not of avoidance, but of outright hate.
I used to consider myself superior to them.
A wise man remains humble, like the dust. :gopray:
I considered the religious organizations to have two kinds of members - the shrewd, immoral and profiteering leaders, in the words of Bill Maher - “intellectual slaveholders” - who used manipulation of the worst sort to get money and power, and the dumb “sheep”, the vast majority of them so stupid that they deserved no better than to be taken advantage of.
Sounds like a false dilemma.
In short, I considered religion a plague.
Sounds like Marxist ideology.
So, this is my background. I’m sorry if any of the above have offended anyone, it’s simply the truth, that’s who I was/am.
Thanks for sharing.
So, where do I stand now ? For the last few months, I find those atheistic beliefs, which I thought stood at the core of my being, my intellectual and moral system, starting to shatter.
And I can find no good reason. Why do I feel the need to go to Mass ? To pray ? To read and meditate on the Bible ? To read this forum ? To do a number of things I considered the trademark of inferior people ? And WHY do I feel good at Mass ? Why do I feel good when I think of Jesus ? Why do I feel so strongly that those things are true ?
I think many people have or develop a religious sense. Maybe it’s the shock that realizing these people aren’t inferior, coming from a Marxist/Dawkins ideology. Why attend a Catholic mass? Why not a Protestant one, or maybe a Buddhist temple? You might have the same feeling or sense of the numinous.
Of course, one possible answer is that those things ARE true. If so, then I have started down a wonderful path. Later edit - and, that I will have a lot to atone for…
But what if it’s all an illusion ? What if I’m a doctor who, after studying alcoholics all his life, finally starts to drink and becomes one ?
Some doctors can function fine as alcoholics.
On one hand, I feel that reason. as I love and cherish it, is not incompatible with faith.
👍
On the other hand, I fear that by embracing faith, I might be giving up reason and that my feeling is just a drug, or a cover up, just like the alcoholic deludes himself by claiming “I can quit whenever I want”.
Feelings are important for the big decisions in life, don’t discount them.
I just don’t know. But I want so bad to believe. I want it to be true. It has to be. It’s too good to not be true. That’s how I feel now.
Wishing doesn’t make it true. Who wouldn’t want to be reunited with loved ones after death, for all eternity. To have an ultimate meaning for life.
Please, pray for me. If it’s all true, it will surely be of help. If not, it doesn’t matter. I thank you for reading this, regardless.
Sounds like Pascal’s wager. You should check out the other major religions too, to hedge your bets.
Later edit - I’ve re read my post and I feel the need to apologize again for what I have described as my previous convictions, as they are certainly offensive for religious people.
I am deeply sorry, and I no longer hold those beliefs.
They’re offensive because of the attitude of superiority, and the extreme ideology. It’s ok to be an atheist, agnostic or believer. cheers.
 
…It’s ok to be an atheist, agnostic or believer. cheers.
This becomes an essential question that may need to be answered. Does it really matter whether or not one is atheist, Christian, or some other religion? And if Christian, does it matter if one is Catholic instead of another form of Christianity?
 
I don’t mean to throw cold water on this thread, I just have some questions and observations if that’s ok.
It’s ok. My post was an emotional outburst, perhaps a cold shower is in order.
That sounds like an ideology to me. If Dawkins had his way he would treat bringing up a child in a faith based school akin to child abuse. Scary stuff.
Indeed. And it was one of the reasons, perhaps, that made me give atheism a second look. I realized Dawkins’s position was closer to the fundamentalism he claims to be battling than to the objective and reasonable position he claimed.
Sounds like Marxist ideology.
Not in a political vein, but still quite close to the truth. I viewed religion as something that went against fundamental qualities and values that all humans should hold - mainly, reason and freedom.
I think many people have or develop a religious sense. Maybe it’s the shock that realizing these people aren’t inferior, coming from a Marxist/Dawkins ideology. Why attend a Catholic mass? Why not a Protestant one, or maybe a Buddhist temple? You might have the same feeling or sense of the numinous.
I’ve experienced Zen a while ago. I’ve been at a Pentecostal service, also at a JW gathering, and since I live in an Orthodox country, I’ve witnessed some form of Eastern Orthodox service (funeral, baptism, marriage) from time to time, albeit as a social obligation.
Ad yet I felt compelled to enter a Catholic Church and only in that Church and only during a Latin rite Mass have I felt… well, something.

It’s interesting that you bring the concept of numinous into discussion. But my experience seems to differ from what I read about Otto’s mysterium tremendum. My feeling was rather one of quiet acceptance.
If anything, I felt intimidated and awed entering a Latin church when my atheist beliefs were still intact. Now, it feels more like home, a familiar and peaceful place.
Some doctors can function fine as alcoholics.
Perhaps my analogy was not the most inspired. An atheist can no longer function as an atheist while believing in God and taking part in the life of a particular church.
Wishing doesn’t make it true. Who wouldn’t want to be reunited with loved ones after death, for all eternity. To have an ultimate meaning for life.
I guess I could bring the argument from desire into play but that would not be honest of me, because, indeed, all I wanted to express was my feelings.

You are, of course, right, wishing does not make it so. But it doesn’t mean it’s NOT so, either.
Sounds like Pascal’s wager. You should check out the other major religions too, to hedge your bets.
I’m sorry if I made it sound like Pascal’s wager, it was not intended as so. I make my political choices based on a version of the wager, not the intellectual or spiritual ones.
And I simply don’t feel the need to “check out” the other religions.
This whole thing was not, for me, a “dude, I think religion’s got something, let’s see which one might be the best” type of thing.
They’re offensive because of the attitude of superiority, and the extreme ideology.
And that’s why I apologize.
This becomes an essential question that may need to be answered. Does it really matter whether or not one is atheist, Christian, or some other religion? And if Christian, does it matter if one is Catholic instead of another form of Christianity?
I strongly believe that there are good people among all faiths. I believe now that there is a God, the embodiment of all that is good, and true, and just, and beautiful, and the goodness in people is some form of reflection of God. I’ve no idea whether the Catholic Church is the only way to becoming closer to Him, but I feel, with a certainty I’ve seldom felt before that it is the right way for me.
 
This becomes an essential question that may need to be answered. Does it really matter whether or not one is atheist, Christian, or some other religion? And if Christian, does it matter if one is Catholic instead of another form of Christianity?
I tend to think of it this way, simply being Christian means you are a follower of Christ, being involved within a religion that supports it, that much better, being within the Catholic religion, even better still.
 
Some words from CS Lewis 🙂 (who used to be an atheist)

"it would seem that Our Lord finds our desires, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased…

…In speaking of this desire for our own far off country, which we find in ourselves even now, I feel a certain shyness. I am almost committing an indecency. I am trying to rip open the inconsolable secret in each one of you—the secret which hurts so much that you take your revenge on it by calling it names like Nostalgia and Romanticism and Adolescence; the secret also which pierces with such sweetness that when, in very intimate conversation, the mention of it becomes imminent, we grow awkward and affect to laugh at ourselves; the secret we cannot hide and cannot tell, though we desire to do both. We cannot tell it because it is a desire for something that has never actually appeared in our experience. We cannot hide it because our experience is constantly suggesting it, and we betray ourselves like lovers at the mention of a name. Our commonest expedient is to call it beauty and behave as if that had settled the matter.

Wordsworth’s expedient was to identify it with certain moments in his own past. But all this is a cheat. If Wordsworth had gone back to those moments in the past, he would not have found the thing itself, but only the reminder of it; what he remembered would turn out to be itself a remembering. The books or the music in which we thought the beauty was located will betray us if we trust to them; it was not in them, it only came through them, and what came through them was longing. These things—the beauty, the memory of our own past—are good images of what we really desire; but if they are mistaken for the thing itself they turn into dumb idols, breaking the hearts of their worshippers.

For they are not the thing itself; they are only the scent of a flower we have not found, the echo of a tune we have not heard, news from a country we have never yet visited. Do you think I am trying to weave a spell? Perhaps I am; but remember your fairy tales. Spells are used for breaking enchantments as well as for inducing them. And you and I have need of the strongest spell that can be found to wake us from the evil enchantment of worldliness which has been laid upon us for nearly a hundred years. Almost our whole education has been directed to silencing this shy, persistent, inner voice; almost all our modem philosophies have been devised to convince us that the good of man is to be found on this earth…

Do what they will, then, we remain conscious of a desire which no natural happiness will satisfy. But is there any reason to suppose that reality offers any satisfaction to it? “Nor does the being hungry prove that we have bread.” But I think it may be urged that this misses the point. A man’s physical hunger does not prove that that man will get any bread; he may die of starvation on a raft in the Atlantic. But surely a man’s hunger does prove that he comes of a race which repairs its body by eating and inhabits a world where eatable substances exist. In the same way, though I do not believe (I wish I did) that my desire for Paradise proves that I shall enjoy it, I think it a pretty good indication that such a thing exists and that some men will."

doxaweb.com/assets/doxa.pdf

philosophyforlife.com/mctoc.htm
 
creation.com/
www.AnswersInGenesis.org
Here are two great sites ,they have great information on finding the purpose and meaning in life.It is run by good christians who have strong rational and scientific reasons supporting The Biblical view of Creation and why atheism cannot be a rationally held belief.They are not Catholic sites but I believe there is a lot of truth being offered here,Gods’ existance is an universal one,open to all.I have a booklet in front of me called Answers to the BIG Questions,produced by the second web site.Here are the main four topics -
(!)Where did the races come from?
(2)Does God Exist?
(3)Who was Cain’s wife?
(4)What about evolution?
I just happened to be reading it at the moment,here is a short quotation from it on this thread -The Bible connects wrong thoughts about God-especially denying His existance-with corrupt morals.If there is no God,no Creator who sets the rules,then we are set adrift morally.When the children of Israel forgot that God was their Creator,Judge and King,"every man did what was right in his own eyes"Judges 21;25) and chaos reigned.(Quote)
You will find out more should you search the sites,I remember reading about a woman with no religion,I think it was near Switzertand who in her twenties decided she was called to be a nun.She wanted to go to confession ,so she entered a Catholic Church-she told the priest her sins,but he stopped her when on talking to her, found out that she was not a Catholic! She explained that she always wanted to be a nun in an enclosed convent,he explained that she will need to become a catholic first! She entered a local order but after a few years, they advised her to leave because of her poor health.She still had this yearning of a religious vocation,after a few frustrating years of searching she was received by a Franciscan Poor Clare Colletine community in Jerusalem.She started to get locutions(messages from Jesus)which He ordered her to write down.She died in 1942 and was called Sister Mary of The Holy Spirit (of Jerusalem).I know this story ,as I read this book after coming back to God, as a prodical son aged 22years.Her writings had a big influence in my life and spirituallity.So the story of an atheist on this thread ,who wants to be a nun does not confuse me at all! Our hearts are made for Thee Oh God and they cannot rest until they rest in Thee’ St.Augustine(Confessions)-so go for your dream “confused atheist”!
 
Dear Pi314, here is a link about Sister Mary of The Holy Trinity of Jerusalem,the page is only short but it gives a brief summary of her life and a few quotations from it also.the beginning of her life story to be a nun is similar to your,you will find it uncanny!
faithofthefathersapparitions.blogspot.com/.../jesus-message-to-sister-mary-of.html -

The book is really a great read,I also read on another web page that Our Lady supposedly appearing in Majigorie in Croata makes a reference to this nun,the basic spirituality of the messages to this nun was of victimhood and what Our Lord says about it.
 
karoleck, there seems to be a bit of confusion. I’ve read he thread again and nowhere does Pi314 say that she wishes to become a nun…

As for the two sites you provided links to, I believe the Vatican has expressed the position that darwinism is not incompatible with faith or with creation.

From what I understand, most catholics will tell you that the Earth is quite a bit older than what those sites suggest.
 
Thank you.

And yes, by the way, my e-name is simply Arathorn (the father of Aragorn, from LOTR), with e’s instead of a’s 🙂

I’m a huge fan of Tolkien, and the thought that a fellow who wrote something so great was also a devout Catholic is of great help.

God bless.
Two books I’ve acquired recently; amazon.com/Romantic-Religion-Barfield-Williams-Tolkien/dp/1584200472 Romantic Religion: A Study of Barfield, Lewis, Williams, and Tolkien

amazon.com/Battle-Middle-earth-Tolkiens-Divine-Design/dp/0802824978
The Battle for Middle-earth: Tolkien’s Divine Design in “The Lord of the Rings”

I can see the romantic connection, classic, epic sagas about the conflict between the forces of good and evil. All three NT roles are there, prophet, priest and king, etc.

I brought this up in a discussion about wish-fulfillment and the argument from the desire. My prof (who teaches mediaeval canon law, and whose native tongue is Latin) balked at the idea that people would desire to live in Middle Earth. He’s probably never read the books and only has seen video trailers of battle sequences.

Anyways, here’s a two part commentary on LotR by Fr. Robert Barron, a theologian and apologist I respect. youtube.com/user/wordonfirevideo#p/u/113/Pio5pf-Eoi8
 
First off, this might be in the wrong forum. I’m guessing. :\

So, I’m an atheist, have been for years. Suddenly the whole atheism thing isn’t feeling right. I feel like I’m missing something, but I can’t put my finger on what (I got into a good school, I love my job, I have wonderful friends). But it’s not something I can talk about to much of anyone. All my friends are atheists. All the professors I’m close to (and usually talk to) are atheists too. Anyone I talked to, if they know me, would think I’m a crazy hypocrite.
I guess what’s bugging me is this interest in God, and Catholicism specifically, having been an atheist for so long. I don’t like it when I don’t have a logical explanation for something. I don’t have an explanation for this. And it’s not like it’s been one day, it’s been almost a year of feeling like this. **Seriously, I woke up one morning last December and thought “I should be a nun”. Which is ridiculous of course since I’m an atheist, and that’s like the extreme end of religion. But I can’t get that line of thinking out of my head. **I looked into becoming a Catholic, but then I always stop short, because everyone I know would think I’m a nutty hypocrite to change my mind like that.
I don’t even know what I’m talking about really. Just wanted to get it out… I’m just all confused. I kind of want to just go back to being confident and happy in my non-belief. It was easier.
-from the original thread starter from the above title.

I just re-quoted this, except that I made bold the statement about being a nun,I am not being smart or anything, because I too often misread or look over posts made by others Ethrin.But now you realize this, you can better understand my posting to Pi314.
I am happy that you did look at the different web sites that I suggested.Since these are christian scientists and ministers,your reference about what the Vatican allows ,is not an issue to them.There is such a concept of natural universal truth,the pagan Grrek philosophers such as Aristotle,worked out from reason that there is a One God!!I would be happy for my fellow Catholics to post web links,even threads relating to evolution for Etherin to know what the real teachings of The Catholic Church is, regarding Darwinism(you will find there are a limits there,to his dogma or what is rightly called the Theory of evolution).In my previous posting ,I mentioned lightly of the consequences of to where belief in Darwins’ therories can lead,which is Atheism ,qouting from 4 Big Questions under Q4 Does God, exist they write "Many millions have suffered terribly and lost their lives because of atheistic way of thinging.Atheism kills,because without God there are no rules-anything goes"Atheists are at the forefront of efforts to legitimize euthanasia,abortion,drug-taking,prostitution,pornography and promiscuity.All these things cause misery,suffering and death.Atheism is the philosophy of death’’ and again i quote-
“Some of the greatest evil seen has been perpetrated by those who have adopted an evolutionary approach to morality-Lenin,Hitler,Stalin,Mao,Mao Zedong,Pol Pot. Aetheist Sir Arthur Keith acknowledged of Hitler: the German Fuhrer–is an evolutionist;he has consciously sought to make the practise of Germany conform to the theory of evolution” Plenty more there Etherin if you are reallt serious about moving away from being an Anti Christ supporting Athiest and moving away from the "darkness of middle earth"to observe in the light of day , the beauty around us, that God is! Judo/Christian values is the philosophy of Life. --“which do you choose?”
 
I think it’s important to make a distinction between “darwinism” or natural selection and the theory of evolution in general. My understanding is that the Church is open to a theistic theory of evolution, i.e. one that does not leave God out of the picture.

Darwinism and the idea of the survival of the fittest can indeed lead to astoundingly callous attitudes, such as, “Just let the poor/sick/old people die, since it’s natural for them to die and we shouldn’t interfere with nature by trying to keep them alive; besides, they’re in the way,” and so forth; I have heard such things in conversation! Yes, that is a philosophy of death. Theistic evolution is different, however, because it sees the evolutionary process as guided by a loving and creative God, and also sees the creation of life and the human soul as a creative act of God, rather than something that happened by a random accident.
 
Erethorn,just to say sorry about the wrong spelling of your middle earth hero and your posting name.I believe the reason that the author of The Lord of the Rings (a great book in my view) was able to visit the dark side ,because he saw sin and evil from the perspective of The Light of The World-Christ.That was his raison d’etre of why good, will always prevail over darkness,.It is my belief that Aethism made the Hobbits peaceful life change into a struggle detween Life and Death.
 
A good point Student09,may I add one small addition to your good posting ; that Catholics believe and know that the Biblical account is correctand that the human race came from The creation of one man and one woman(persons-Adam and Eve-which is what their names mean, But why would any reasonable thinking person believe in the teachings of Darwin and his logical conclusions leading to Aetheism, when we have The Certitude of Faith of God creating the world as, written in the Bible? I would rather believe in the therory of the fairy “godmother”, at least I got a few coins for my lost teeth!!Go Student09!
 
Great post, Monica! Very fitting quotes to bring into the discussion.

I also agree with karoleck that Student09 brought up a very valuable point about evolution. It is perfectly valid to believe in it. In fact, in my opinion the Bible mentioned it long before Darwin thought of it. But it has to be theistic evolution. The extrapolation that “we now know some more about the origins of life, so God isn’t necessary” is an unsupportable supposition that assumes a lot more about the formation of life or the universe than we can know with modern science. Nowhere has God been ruled out as the contoller of the process by modern science or math.

I don’t have time to talk more of this just now.
 
On one hand, I feel that reason. as I love and cherish it, is not incompatible with faith. On the other hand, I fear that by embracing faith, I might be giving up reason and that my feeling is just a drug, or a cover up, just like the alcoholic deludes himself by claiming “I can quit whenever I want”.
It’s impossible that by giving up atheism you’d be abandoning reason, because atheism is inherently irrational. I’m sorry if I’m treading on your toes by saying this, but it’s blind faith. That’s because it’s impossible to prove a negative. It is impossible for anyone to prove that God doesn’t exist. People can try to explain things that occur in the world in a way that doesn’t include God. I certainly grant you they can do that. It also is possible to provide evidence arguing that aspects of various religions are untrue. But it is impossible to prove God wasn’t involved in any particular event, or that God does not exist. It is impossible to provide any evidence that God doesn’t exist, for the belief of the major religions is that God is spirit. All our instruments are material.

Atheism is blind faith. It is what atheists generally accuse Christianity of being. Christianity, on the other hand, is what I call “seeing faith,” or what others might call “rational faith,” for there is a whole lot of reason to be a Christian. There are a whole lot of evidences or arguments, philosophical, scientific or other, to be a Christian. While there are also arguments for not being a Christian, and for various evidences supporting Christianity being flawed, this is arguing about something the merits of which can be discussed on a rational level. Atheism cannot be, though, for it is blind faith, belief without any evidence or reason of any kind to support it.

Your present feeling that Catholicism is true is a stronger evidence supporting your belief than simple unbelief is an evidence that atheism is true, for it is impossible to prove a negative, but one can provide evidences – and a lot of them – verifying the truth of a positive.

Even if there was nothing more than a scrap of parchment written in 4000 BC by who knows who, which says, “I think God exists because I saw a vision yesterday,” author unknown, that is more evidence (however pathetic) than atheism ever could have, because there is zero evidence supporting atheism (impossible to prove a negative), so a shred of evidence supporting theism is more than atheism ever can have.

Atheism is the least rational of all the major belief systems, for it can never have anything to support it and the best it can do to support its tenets is argue against the major religions being true. Which, even if all its arguments against them were right, wouldn’t prove atheism’s truth at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top