I'm a former atheist. Ask me anything.

[dcrowmik]

That’s hard to say. My Catholic faith today, I think, is definitely more of the heart. I realized emotionally that something was missing, and that need was satisfied by the faith I had left.

My atheism was, at least on the surface, more from the intellect. In thinking about God, I had reasoned to the position that there very probably was no god. But I’m sure there was an affective part of it, too. Some of my closest friends were atheists, for example.
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What would you show/say to someone who is using intellectual reasoning to rationalize there is no God?

Also, how would you get someone out of faith through intellect and into faith through the heart?

 

[wina]

Langdell, thank you for sharing your coversion’s story. Welcome home:thumbsup:

 

[Graubo3]

I think I became an atheist partly because the Catholics around me didn’t seem very Christian, and partly because I didn’t know any “intellectual” Catholics, for lack of a better term. My parents were both devout Catholics, but they didn’t have much interest in the theological/philosophical side of the faith. Hence, they weren’t really in a position to help a curious, questioning son think about, for example, why the Church wasn’t against all war when Jesus told us to turn the other cheek.

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Langdell,

Welcome Home! Sounds all too familiar to my 20+ year “sabbatical” away from the faith.

As far as turning the other cheek and war: Notice in John 2, Jesus stood up to the one (those) that struck him unjustly. That is the reaction of a real man, defending what is right. Come after my family, you have some double barrels to look into. Is this un-Christian of me? I do believe by Natural Law I have the right to defend what is my responsibility. If you disagree with me, you disagree with almost every mammalian mother defending her young, and this instinct is from God. I believe there is a time to turn your cheek, it doesn’t mean to be a door mat.

I am glad you are home and God does allow us to travel certain paths for a reason.

Peace, Graubo

 

[Reuben_J]

I think it was a combination of two things. Lately, I had been kind of coasting at work, not approaching new projects with the dedication I used to have. One of my younger colleagues is a Mormon and works very hard. I would look at him and think about the faith he lives by and what a good example he sets.

Then, at about the same time, I started listening to a series of lectures on CD about the history of Christian theology. The ideas in the lectures – the Trinity, the incarnation, grace, and so on – called out to me.

So, in effect, I asked myself, Why should I continue to resist believing in something that is intellectually satisfying, comforts me, and will help make me a better person? There was no reason to keep resisting. So I opened my heart and mind to God.
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Hi. :clapping:

Welcome to the forum and welcome home. I read your conversion story and I hope I am not too old to cry. I have a soft spot for people who turn to the Lord and I usually cry because I can see it is in my own story. I can understand how meaningless, empty and directionless one’s life would be without his Maker.

I have this question to ask just to make sure and thought you are the right person to speak on this since you had been there:

What motivate an atheist to argue with Christians and telling them that Christianity belief is only a myth and untrue?

Some of them behave as if they are trying to ‘convert’ Christians to atheism. Does he have an agenda to do this?

I think atheists can be divided into a few categories. Those (1) who do not believe and keep it to themselves; (2) those who do not believe but would defend his belief if challenged and (3) those who go around telling Christians that they are believing in myth. Is my assessment correct or do I misunderstand them?

I am more interested on your thought about atheists in category (3) if there is such thing like that. My own idea is - if I am an atheist I would keep it to myself. Why go out all the way to tell those who believe in Christianity that they are wrong?

Your thought on this?

God bless you.

 

[Langdell]

What would you show/say to someone who is using intellectual reasoning to rationalize there is no God?

Also, how would you get someone out of faith through intellect and into faith through the heart?

You ask tough questions!

Unfortunately, I don’t know of anything we could show/say to change the mind of someone who is using intellectual reasoning to rationalize there is no God. When I was an atheist, I had a counterargument for everything.

However, speaking for myself, I do think the following things actually had some effect:

• No one can be absolutely certain that there is no God. Even the most hard-core atheists will grant you this, unless their thinking is very shallow. They’ll still say it doesn’t matter, because (they’ll say, for example) no one can be absolutely certain that there is no cobalt-blue toaster orbiting the North Star. That’s true, but the possibility of God is a start. It keeps someone’s heart a little open.
• Hearing from believers who are smart and well read, and who believe because they’ve had personal experiences that were convincing to them, notwithstanding all their education.
• Seeing believers set a good example. This was very powerful – knowing people who are Christians and who are models of strength in adversity, charity, responsibility, and patience.

With regard to getting people out of and into faith, I think the problem of evil and the question of why so many people remain in the faith they were raised in were the most powerful arguments against belief. (They were for me.) Getting people into faith is harder. I think we just have to be reasonable and understanding, and wait for each person’s time to come.
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[why_me]

I think it was a combination of two things. Lately, I had been kind of coasting at work, not approaching new projects with the dedication I used to have. One of my younger colleagues is a Mormon and works very hard. I would look at him and think about the faith he lives by and what a good example he sets.

It is interesting that a mormon co-worker brought you back to the catholic faith. I think that this is wonderful. Good people setting an example regardless of faith can lead people to god, just like the early christians did for the pagans. I take my hat off to your mormon co-worker and to you…for coming back to god.

Good people need to unite to make this earth a little more part of heaven.

 

[Langdell]

I have this question to ask just to make sure and thought you are the right person to speak on this since you had been there:

What motivate an atheist to argue with Christians and telling them that Christianity belief is only a myth and untrue?

Some of them behave as if they are trying to ‘convert’ Christians to atheism. Does he have an agenda to do this?

I think atheists can be divided into a few categories. Those (1) who do not believe and keep it to themselves; (2) those who do not believe but would defend his belief if challenged and (3) those who go around telling Christians that they are believing in myth. Is my assessment correct or do I misunderstand them?

I am more interested on your thought about atheists in category (3) if there is such thing like that. My own idea is - if I am an atheist I would keep it to myself. Why go out all the way to tell those who believe in Christianity that they are wrong?

I’m not sure what makes some atheists be so militant. People like Richard Dawkins have used the 9/11 attacks as a reason (an excuse?) for being militant, on the grounds that the acts of the terrorists show that religion is dangerous. I believe there are some people who honestly think they are doing something good by denigrating religious belief.

At the same time, a lot of academics and intellectuals just like to analyze and argue about things, and religion is something that one can analyze and argue about forever.

I think your three categories are accurate. I was mostly in category (1), but if someone asked me about the subject, and I felt comfortable discussing it, I’d be more in category (2) with that person.

The people I’ve come across in category (3) have been mostly of two sorts. The vast majority, I think, are teenagers or in their early 20s. They’re breaking out, testing limits, and being rude with the self-perception that they’re standing up for freedom. (There are a lot of atheists like this on the Internet.) When it’s someone older, they usually, in my experience, have been people who, in one way or another, had very negative experiences with religion when they were young, and they remain deeply, deeply angry.
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[Langdell]

It is interesting that a mormon co-worker brought you back to the catholic faith. I think that this is wonderful. Good people setting an example regardless of faith can lead people to god, just like the early christians did for the pagans. I take my hat off to your mormon co-worker and to you…for coming back to god.

Good people need to unite to make this earth a little more part of heaven.

It’s an unusual turn of events, isn’t it? God works in mysterious ways! And I certainly agree with your closing sentiment!
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[why_me]

It’s an unusual turn of events, isn’t it? God works in mysterious ways! And I certainly agree with your closing sentiment!
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To set a good example is so important. I hope that you will discover the beauty of Saint Therese of Liseux and her example for little ways to sainthood and holiness. A simple childlike act of goodness goes a long way… to creating a small portion of heaven on earth.

Have you told your mormon co-worker of his or her influence on your new found faith?

 

[Langdell]

To set a good example is so important. I hope that you will discover the beauty of Saint Therese of Liseux and her example for little ways to sainthood and holiness. A simple childlike act of goodness goes a long way… to creating a small portion of heaven on earth.

Have you told your mormon co-worker of his or her influence on your new found faith?

Thanks for recommending Saint Therese. I will look into that.

I have not told my co-worker yet, but now I’m planning to!
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[why_me]

Thanks for recommending Saint Therese. I will look into that.

I have not told my co-worker yet, but now I’m planning to!
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There is a beautiful movie called Therese directed by Leonardo Defilippis:

ignatiusinsight.com/features/therese_resources_dec04.asp

I have the film and it is great for those who are coming back into the catholic church. It is just beautiful, hopefully you can watch it. Also her book The Story of a Soul is a classic for its simplicity. I hope that you do investigate her life and see the film.

And here is the official movie website:

theresemovie.com/

 

[MJE]

You ought to consider setting up a blog. I too think conversion stories are wonderful inspirations for ‘believers’ and reveal to the world that there are no limits to the means God uses to touch souls.
Your story is not over, yet! Welcome home.

 

[dcrowmik]

Getting people into faith is harder. I think we just have to be reasonable and understanding, and wait for each person’s time to come.
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Prayer. How important is prayer for you today? Do you lead the prayer or does the Holy Spirit guide you?

When you were first “coming out” of atheism, how is it that you first started praying? Looking back, how does your prayer at that time compare to your prayer today?

 

[yankee_doodle]

I think it was a combination of two things. Lately, I had been kind of coasting at work, not approaching new projects with the dedication I used to have. One of my younger colleagues is a Mormon and works very hard. I would look at him and think about the faith he lives by and what a good example he sets.

Then, at about the same time, I started listening to a series of lectures on CD about the history of Christian theology. The ideas in the lectures – the Trinity, the incarnation, grace, and so on – called out to me.

So, in effect, I asked myself, Why should I continue to resist believing in something that is intellectually satisfying, comforts me, and will help make me a better person? There was no reason to keep resisting. So I opened my heart and mind to God.
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Then you were probably never an atheist or agnostic for intellectual reasons (even if you think you were).

 

[yankee_doodle]

we have quite a few atheist/agnostic posters on CAF, which I’m sure will benefit from this thread.

I strongly doubt we’ll benefit from this thread (but I’m sure it might be amusing all the same).

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m not sure what makes some atheists be so militant. People like Richard Dawkins have used the 9/11 attacks as a reason (an excuse?) for being militant, on the grounds that the acts of the terrorists show that religion is dangerous. I believe there are some people who honestly think they are doing something good by denigrating religious belief.

At the same time, a lot of academics and intellectuals just like to analyze and argue about things, and religion is something that one can analyze and argue about forever.

I think your three categories are accurate. I was mostly in category (1), but if someone asked me about the subject, and I felt comfortable discussing it, I’d be more in category (2) with that person.

The people I’ve come across in category (3) have been mostly of two sorts. The vast majority, I think, are teenagers or in their early 20s. They’re breaking out, testing limits, and being rude with the self-perception that they’re standing up for freedom. (There are a lot of atheists like this on the Internet.) When it’s someone older, they usually, in my experience, have been people who, in one way or another, had very negative experiences with religion when they were young, and they remain deeply, deeply angry.
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Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, it is very helpful.

Never been an athiest myself though at some stage in my life I was nominal. Your assesment of category (3) is informative. It can be said also that there are Catholics who left the Church because of personal bad experience with it or with someone associated with the church. These category can be militant too as if they have an agenda to fullfil.

May God bless you always.

 

[yankee_doodle]

I’m not sure what makes some atheists be so militant. People like Richard Dawkins have used the 9/11 attacks as a reason (an excuse?) for being militant, on the grounds that the acts of the terrorists show that religion is dangerous. I believe there are some people who honestly think they are doing something good by denigrating religious belief.

It’s odd you would say such a thing with a straight face. We’re bombarded all day and night long with Christianity. Evangelical televangelists, Catholics on EWTN, religious radio, religious protesters, door to door evangelists, pamphlets, and a million other mediums of saturation I’m sure I’m neglecting to mention. Yet one guy made a few statements and he’s militant? We have no atheist television programming (although we should), we have no churches, no army of evangelists pounding on doors around the nation, no radio stations, nothing (except for Bill Maher on HBO, if he still has a show).

The worse thing is you guys are actually blind to this. You walk around as if you’re entitled to ownership of the world, and the few who bother objecting are demonized for merely expressing their thoughts. This is the sort of tyranny that religion has always represented; and it’s only moderately muted by a secular society built by founders who themselves in many cases held very unorthodox religious views, such as deism, and understood the importance of stripping religious denominations of any political power.

But for those men, and the enlightenment thinkers who preceded them, we might still be under the thumb of a dark Puritanical regime where the sort of progress we’ve accomplished in this country would have never been possible. Women would have continued to be subjugated, I’m sure blacks would have continued to be oppressed, and I strongly doubt we would have moved past the oil lamp and horse and buggy in terms of technological progress. The reformers before them began to erode Catholic tyranny, and free Europe from the grip of centuries of inquisitions, repression of individual freedoms, etc. Then real free thinkers like Immanual Kant began to emerge to finish the job. But for this progressive break from theocracy it’s likely the industrial revolution would have never happened, the enlightenment would have been repressed, and the underlying foundation for the declaration of independence and our constitution would have never been built.

I applaud Richard Dawkins for his courage in speaking openly about religion. This is the sort of courage that is quintessentially American.

 

[DavidHume]

Then you were probably never an atheist or agnostic for intellectual reasons (even if you think you were).

I thought that at first too, but I think it is rather unfair to say. I think it’s fairer to say that he was never really emotionally committed to atheism, and kind of fell into it and fell out of it.

In my opinion it is unrealistic and counterproductive to expect people to act out of pure intellect – emotion and will play the larger part in human conduct.

As far as atheism goes, I, like Dr. House, find it more comforting to believe that this isn’t simply a test.[1]

I applaud Richard Dawkins for his courage in speaking openly about religion. This is the sort of courage that is quintessentially American.

I wonder if the Northamptonshire-raised Oxford don would take that as a compliment or as an insult…

[1] Heh… that episode won a Humanitas prize…

 

[Langdell]

You ought to consider setting up a blog. I too think conversion stories are wonderful inspirations for ‘believers’ and reveal to the world that there are no limits to the means God uses to touch souls.
Your story is not over, yet! Welcome home.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! However, I don’t have a good history with blogs. I’ve started three different blogs over the years, and I’ve never been able to keep up with it for more than a couple of months.
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[Langdell]

Prayer. How important is prayer for you today? Do you lead the prayer or does the Holy Spirit guide you?

When you were first “coming out” of atheism, how is it that you first started praying? Looking back, how does your prayer at that time compare to your prayer today?

Yes, I should have mentioned prayer. Your questions will require ongoing thought. I think it may be too soon for me to have noticed a change in how I pray.
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