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ethelzguy
Guest
If someone leaves a parish for another over song selections, I suspect there is a little more than the music itself at play here.
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LRThunder
Guest
Maybe, maybe not.If someone leaves a parish for another over song selections, I suspect there is a little more than the music itself at play here.
But until the Church starts restricting people to their territorial parishes, it’s not up to us to second guess their reasons for going to Mass at any particular parish.
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pnewton
Guest
If that iswhat concerns you, then that kind of division is irrelevant. We are united by the Nicene Creed. We are united by the Church hierarchy. We need not be united by geography or musical tastes. Individual Catholics are bound to support the Church according to one’s needs. There is no obligation to give to one parish or another. There is no percentage mandated to give locally or to the diocese or to various ministries.
The Catholic Church operates on faith when it comes to giving, not taxation and regulation of its members.
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ethelzguy
Guest
I wasn’t talking about competing for dollars, I was referring to souls/bodies/members.
Sorry for the confusion.
TBL
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pnewton
Guest
Then that is not worthy worrying about. Who reaps the souls is not important. If the only concern is competition for people, then there is no concern. It is one Church and one way to heaven, as well as one heaven. If a further parish is what does that best, then it is the parish that one should go to.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Your post appears to be contradictory. First you say that there is one Church and one way to Heaven.
Then you say it’s ok to pick a parish based on what it does best and that who reaps the souls is not important?
It’s starting to sound like we have mini-denominations within our own.
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pnewton
Guest
There is no contradiction. There is one Church, yet more than one parish. This presents no contradiction. There is also more than one Rite. Yet all are within the one Church. If having more than one Rite does not equate to denominationalism, then how can have differing parishes of the Latin Rite?Your post appears to be contradictory. First you say that there is one Church and one way to Heaven.
Then you say it’s ok to pick a parish based on what it does best and that who reaps the souls is not important?
It’s starting to sound like we have mini-denominations within our own.
Some people find reading the lives of the saints to be more edifying; others the Catechism. This is not a contradiction. It is the nature of being a part of a spiritual body, composed of many parts.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
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ethelzguy
Guest
Potayto, potahto, tomayto, tomahto…
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benedictgal
Guest
I think that there are some people confusing leaving the parish with leaving the Church.
“Parish shopping” is not necessarily a good term. Maybe “parish seeking” is more appropriate.
We belong to the Catholic Church, which is UNIVERSAL. As such, all of our parishes, whether Latin or Eastern, must adhere to the norms established by the Church. In the Latin Rite, when a parish and/or pastor is not following the norms, rubrics and prescriptions of the Church, and, if this is detrimental to the faith of the person, then, that individual needs to leave the parish and find another parish that is faithful to the Church.
If the CCD program is not up to snuff, and if, for example, the parents find that their children are not exposed to authentic Church teaching, then it is their right to leave the parish in search of one that is in line with the Church.
Perhaps in pre-conciliar days, this issue was not as important because, most, if not all, of the time, the Mass was celebrated according to the norms (EF doesn’t allow for much, if any, deviation) and there was probably a greater sense of unity, as far as CCD was concerned. But, unfortunately, we have many parishes and/or pastors who feel that it is more important to follow the alleged spirit of Vatican II then to take the time to read what the Council documents actually said.
Plus, people protest with their feet and with their pocketbooks. If a parish is not following the norms, then, people will stop contributing and go elsewhere.
“Parish shopping” is not necessarily a good term. Maybe “parish seeking” is more appropriate.
We belong to the Catholic Church, which is UNIVERSAL. As such, all of our parishes, whether Latin or Eastern, must adhere to the norms established by the Church. In the Latin Rite, when a parish and/or pastor is not following the norms, rubrics and prescriptions of the Church, and, if this is detrimental to the faith of the person, then, that individual needs to leave the parish and find another parish that is faithful to the Church.
If the CCD program is not up to snuff, and if, for example, the parents find that their children are not exposed to authentic Church teaching, then it is their right to leave the parish in search of one that is in line with the Church.
Perhaps in pre-conciliar days, this issue was not as important because, most, if not all, of the time, the Mass was celebrated according to the norms (EF doesn’t allow for much, if any, deviation) and there was probably a greater sense of unity, as far as CCD was concerned. But, unfortunately, we have many parishes and/or pastors who feel that it is more important to follow the alleged spirit of Vatican II then to take the time to read what the Council documents actually said.
Plus, people protest with their feet and with their pocketbooks. If a parish is not following the norms, then, people will stop contributing and go elsewhere.
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adstrinity
Guest
This is as far as I got in this thread because I would like to point out, if the priests of the Church did what they were supposed to, EXACTLY HOW they are supposed to with nothing more and nothing less, there would be no divisions in the Church and no reason to look for a church that is more Catholic and/or reverant.Bingo
Isn’t that what ‘Church Shoppping’ is all about? Looking for a Church or Priest who “does things the way I think they should be done, in accordance with MY interpretation of Church documents”?
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
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ethelzguy
Guest
According to who’s interpretation?
And how do you reconcile your position with the TLM/NO division?
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feargalmac
Guest
When you live in a parish with just one priest. A priest that uses the homily, on Vocation Sunday, to call for gay, married and women priests. That tells us that it doesn’t matter what we do in life, God will welcome us with open arms. Who tells us he’s just not interested in hearing our confessions. Who changes the words of the Gospel, or shortens it, to suit his outlook on life. The only thing you can do is to find another parish.
Are you going to continue eating at the restaurant that regularly has food poisoning or should you find one that serves wholesome and nourishing food.
We go to Mass to share in our Lords supreme sacrifice and to take nourishment for our souls. Isn’t it right then that we find the parish that gives that to us.
BTW: I live two minutes from my local church, but will drive for forty minutes rather than go there. I pray that our priest changes, because I believe he is leading people down a slippery slope where each one decides his own morals.
Sorry about that, but I just don’t see myself as a parish shopper, rather a starving soul in need of some good food.
Are you going to continue eating at the restaurant that regularly has food poisoning or should you find one that serves wholesome and nourishing food.
We go to Mass to share in our Lords supreme sacrifice and to take nourishment for our souls. Isn’t it right then that we find the parish that gives that to us.
BTW: I live two minutes from my local church, but will drive for forty minutes rather than go there. I pray that our priest changes, because I believe he is leading people down a slippery slope where each one decides his own morals.
Sorry about that, but I just don’t see myself as a parish shopper, rather a starving soul in need of some good food.
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redrosetea
Guest
I think God has worked to clean up his church…The Holy Spririt has given us the JPII generation…I am praying we see change in my lifetime, and the church will again flourish
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Ignatius
Guest
Would you feel the same if they had leotard-clad liturgical dancers at your parish?
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jmdsc
Guest
I WISH I was able to attend my “local” parish that is only 2 1/2 blocks away from my house. (How nice would it be to walk to mass with your family?) There are so many things absurdly wrong with the close parish - I wouldn’t know where to start!
I am however grateful that I do have the right to attend the parish of my choice. It is the right choice for myself, my husband and my children.
I am however grateful that I do have the right to attend the parish of my choice. It is the right choice for myself, my husband and my children.
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fontgoddess
Guest
Wow, I am truly horrified to hear some of the things that people have encountered at Mass.
The worst thing I’ve ever experienced is horrible music, and while I do find it very much detracts from my focus on the Mass, I would not leave my parish over it. It’s sort of a gamble, as different groups (all volunteer, and I don’t believe there is anyone actually overseeing the music ministry as a whole) do different Masses from week to week. There is one that actually has a tambourine. I really, really, really dislike it, but if I happen to end up at the tambourine Mass, I try to treat it as mortification.
Saddest part of the story is that so many people seem to just love it! Ah well, I don’t understand how Celine Dion sells so many CDs either.
Seriously, our current priest is very orthodox and an excellent homilist. I’ll put up with the horrid music for that. I’d rather be offended aesthetically than theologically. I don’t consider bad music a liturgical abuse, although I do think it unfortunate as it seriously detracts from the beauty that is the Mass.
That being said, if I were at a parish in which there were serious liturgical abuses (especially homilies that are blatantly in opposition to church teaching) that were not addressed even after being respectfully reported to the bishop, I would absolutely go to a parish that was more orthodox. I don’t really consider that parish shopping. At a minimum, to keep me in the pew, my parish has to BE Catholic and not just call themselves that.
The worst thing I’ve ever experienced is horrible music, and while I do find it very much detracts from my focus on the Mass, I would not leave my parish over it. It’s sort of a gamble, as different groups (all volunteer, and I don’t believe there is anyone actually overseeing the music ministry as a whole) do different Masses from week to week. There is one that actually has a tambourine. I really, really, really dislike it, but if I happen to end up at the tambourine Mass, I try to treat it as mortification.
Saddest part of the story is that so many people seem to just love it! Ah well, I don’t understand how Celine Dion sells so many CDs either.Seriously, our current priest is very orthodox and an excellent homilist. I’ll put up with the horrid music for that. I’d rather be offended aesthetically than theologically. I don’t consider bad music a liturgical abuse, although I do think it unfortunate as it seriously detracts from the beauty that is the Mass.
That being said, if I were at a parish in which there were serious liturgical abuses (especially homilies that are blatantly in opposition to church teaching) that were not addressed even after being respectfully reported to the bishop, I would absolutely go to a parish that was more orthodox. I don’t really consider that parish shopping. At a minimum, to keep me in the pew, my parish has to BE Catholic and not just call themselves that.
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Peace-bwu
Guest
My entire family, for three or four generations went to St. Mary’s in Chillicothe OH. That’s where all of our huge family was Baptized, married and held our funeral masses.
We are all prolife, faithful Catholics.
Then came a new priest. He was rude, cranky and said awful things, but he was tolerated with love and patience by my family, until he held a special Mass for John Kerry took a collection for his campaign and gave him Communion after Church officials told him not to. (it made national news) It soon became the “ProAbortion” Catholic Church and lost many, many of it’s members because my family, as well as many others, went down the block to St. Peters. (originally one was more for Irish Immigrants and the other more for German immigrants, that’s how we have two Catholic Churches so close together)
My family certainly made the right decision. They were all very active in the parish for years and no matter how many of them were on parish council or lectors or RE volunteers and leaders, this was the straw that broke the camel’s back and broke our hearts. There was no changing this man’s mind or heart by us. Only prayer can do that. This was all reported and my family all tried to make changes, to no avail. I’m very happy that they attend the “ProLife Parish,” whereas most of the members who remained at the other church are Pro choice and also have more liberal ideas about the direction of the Catholic church and teach the parish members accordingly. Why should my family have to sit through one more homily that promotes abortion??? That’s evil.
There are Catholic Churches out there that become corrupt.
We are all prolife, faithful Catholics.
Then came a new priest. He was rude, cranky and said awful things, but he was tolerated with love and patience by my family, until he held a special Mass for John Kerry took a collection for his campaign and gave him Communion after Church officials told him not to. (it made national news) It soon became the “ProAbortion” Catholic Church and lost many, many of it’s members because my family, as well as many others, went down the block to St. Peters. (originally one was more for Irish Immigrants and the other more for German immigrants, that’s how we have two Catholic Churches so close together)
My family certainly made the right decision. They were all very active in the parish for years and no matter how many of them were on parish council or lectors or RE volunteers and leaders, this was the straw that broke the camel’s back and broke our hearts. There was no changing this man’s mind or heart by us. Only prayer can do that. This was all reported and my family all tried to make changes, to no avail. I’m very happy that they attend the “ProLife Parish,” whereas most of the members who remained at the other church are Pro choice and also have more liberal ideas about the direction of the Catholic church and teach the parish members accordingly. Why should my family have to sit through one more homily that promotes abortion??? That’s evil.
There are Catholic Churches out there that become corrupt.
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Peace-bwu
Guest
My husband, Children and I just moved to a new state and there are two Catholic Churches within in equal distance in either direction on the highway. We decided to check out the “other” parish down the road before we made the decision which one we would become members of. Mind you, we move often and if there is more than one parish in the area near my home I generally choose the one that needs my volunteerism the most.
After attending Sunday Mass at this parish I could never join. It strayed so far from the GIRM that my husband and I questined whether it was actually a real Catholic Church. WE thought maybe we stumbled upon an imposter. It’s not a matter of our personal taste in music or something minor, we’re talking about serious violations of the order and prayers in the Mass to the things that are not allowed to be changed. They sang the Allelujah before the Gospel to the tune of Leonard Cohen’s song by the same title “Hallelujah” but the most troubling moment was when they sang a totally different "song’ rather than the Profession of Faith. They they sang all kinds of unrecognizable songs during the Consecration. It was disturbing.
Read and you’ll see why we tried both parishes before we decided on one:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3846265#post3846265
After attending Sunday Mass at this parish I could never join. It strayed so far from the GIRM that my husband and I questined whether it was actually a real Catholic Church. WE thought maybe we stumbled upon an imposter. It’s not a matter of our personal taste in music or something minor, we’re talking about serious violations of the order and prayers in the Mass to the things that are not allowed to be changed. They sang the Allelujah before the Gospel to the tune of Leonard Cohen’s song by the same title “Hallelujah” but the most troubling moment was when they sang a totally different "song’ rather than the Profession of Faith. They they sang all kinds of unrecognizable songs during the Consecration. It was disturbing.
Read and you’ll see why we tried both parishes before we decided on one:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3846265#post3846265
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