I'm against church shopping

[rayne89]

Is this all stuff that happened in your Church on a given Sunday? Or a compilation of things trying to exaggerate a point?

All these things happened, certainly not all in one day. And there are plenty more examples I did not list. It added up until we had to make the sad decision to go to another parish. This is the parish I had been at since I was 4 years old, it was not an easy decision, but I had to think of my daughter. We are very happy at our parish now. It has a solid catechism program and no abuses.

 

[ethelzguy]

Example: There is a parish in a large city that shall be nameless for CAF rules. The pastor does not practice the rubrics as he is supposed to do. He allows a form of worship that is without order. He allows non-Catholic ministers in his pulpit. He allows women at the altar. He alienates a particular race from the pews, because he feels another race is entitled over the first race. He preaches over two hours on tolerance of things that are immoral. He does not even call the Mass “Mass” but “services”. There is no adoration, no rosary, no daily Mass. Just the weekend “services” on Saturday evening and Sunday morning.

There are members of the first race who go to another parish. They have tried to change things. Their bishop wrings his hands. The people of the other race and the pastor will not allow these folks any leadership position or even a voice.

So, they might live in that geographic boundary, but the people fo the first race go to other parishes, taking public transportation, their own cars, or what have you to get where they are going.

So, is the priest at fault here, or the Bishop, for allowing it to occur. Frankly, if the Bishop is aware and allows it to continue then I think the fault lies with him.

So, by “Church Shopping” within the same diocese, are you not standing by the same Bishop who you say allows abuse?

 

[redrosetea]

Then don’t do it.

I don’t care what people do as long as they go, and I let others decide what works best for them

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Where’s John Kennedy when I need him?

What in the Sam Hill does a dead president who was presenting a public image of one sort while all the while playing around on his wife have to do with the matter at hand? This is similar to when you said women religious were ordained. It has no bearing on the topic, is illogical to the discussion, and just plain wrong.

 

[ethelzguy]

***But the Church allows for travel to a different parish (not church) in canon 1248. ***

But is the thread about whether it’s “allowed” or whether we “should”? Actually, the thread is titled “I’m AGAINST Church Shopping”…

I don’t dispute that it’s allowed. I’m debating whether it’s a good thing or not.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

So, is the priest at fault here, or the Bishop, for allowing it to occur. Frankly, if the Bishop is aware and allows it to continue then I think the fault lies with him.

So, by “Church Shopping” within the same diocese, are you not standing by the same Bishop who you say allows abuse?

What do you expect people to do? They’ve written the Vatican, made tapes. It’s under inverstigation. Are the people of the particular race supposed to just show up Sunday after Sunday to be told they are bad for being born with a particular color of skin? That the GIRM is wrong? That abortion is OK?

 

[ethelzguy]

What in the Sam Hill does a dead president who was presenting a public image of one sort while all the while playing around on his wife have to do with the matter at hand? This is similar to when you said women religious were ordained. It has no bearing on the topic, is illogical to the discussion, and just plain wrong.

Ask not what your Country can do for YOU, but rather what YOU can do for YOUR Country…

extrapolated…Ask not what your Church can do for YOU, but rather what YOU can do for your Church.

How are you making your Church a better place by creating division through Church Shopping?

Sam Hill, 2008

 

[ethelzguy]

What do you expect people to do? They’ve written the Vatican, made tapes. It’s under inverstigation. Are the people of the particular race supposed to just show up Sunday after Sunday to be told they are bad for being born with a particular color of skin? That the GIRM is wrong? That abortion is OK?

I strongly dislike cut-and-paste debate, but here goes with some Beatitudes…

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

 

[lovesMary]

But is the thread about whether it’s “allowed” or whether we “should”? Actually, the thread is titled “I’m AGAINST Church Shopping”…

I don’t dispute that it’s allowed. I’m debating whether it’s a good thing or not.

That’s right. I know it’s officially allowed by the Church. But, I see a lot of things debated here that are officially allowed, such as music style, posture for receiving, altar girls, the list goes on…

I’m against some other things that are okay by the Church such as watching Oprah, for instance…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Ask not what your Country can do for YOU, but rather what YOU can do for YOUR Country…

extrapolated…Ask not what your Church can do for YOU, but rather what YOU can do for your Church. You didn’t say that. You expected everybody to simply know. John Kennedy was not a good Catholic in my opinion, and as time has gone on, he was not a good president.

How are you making your Church a better place by creating division through Church Shopping?

Yes. I am.
Eventually, the priest in question will only have his “crowd” his little clique. His numbers will go down. He will have to explain to his bishop why. He will blame other factors, but sooner or later, but the bishop will know why.

The priest at the other parish where things are done correctly will have a good flock, good numbers all the way.

Why give a bad priest- who IS human BTW- the assistance?

 

[hasikelee]

Ah, the seeds of Protestantism…“I have the right to travel to a different church so I don’t have to listen to…”

The Church is not a Democracy.

I wonder what term we should create for a Catholic who travels to a different church to find a parish supportive of Marian worship…oops…I mean devotion.



Actually, this thread does bring up a sad note on top of the silliness. The parishes I have visited with these crazy goings on are usually jam packed. Like the one with the gay lector…they have 3 different priests each giving 3 Masses on Sunday and I think there are 3 Saturday Masses too. The place is filled with people.

I wonder, if the parish brought back an organ and music normal people could follow along with, and if the parish had a pro-life group, a rosary before Mass, took all the “she” usage out of Mass, stopped using a furry puppet, etc, how many of those people would go shopping?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I’m blocking you both. You both seem to think if you just keep saying it, it will make it the truth.

 

[ethelzguy]

Like the one with the gay lector…

Is it a sin to be gay?

Careful.

 

[ethelzguy]

I wonder what term we should create for a Catholic who travels to a different church to find a parish supportive of Marian worship…oops…I mean devotion.

Does you parish obstruct your personal Marian devotion?

 

[hasikelee]

Is it a sin to be gay?

Careful.

ethel, you crack me up!

As noted in my previous post, the lector has a gay partner and is living an actively gay lifestyle. I happen to know this (against my wishes lol) because he is juth the sthar of the parith.

In fact, it’s probably not too much speculation to guess that a few parishioners had their cars keyed for not clapping enthusiastically enough after his performance. You have to clap after every Mass for him or the parish community gets a little unhappy at you.

At least this particular parish doesn’t encourage teens to wave lighters around and clap during the Gloria.

Seriously, you are entitled to your opinion on Church shopping, but have you not encountered the Church from the Twilight Zone yet? I admire your zealous attitude towards building a community and staying with a parish, but is this based on a lot of experience?

Heck, I haven’t even mentioned 90% of the stuff that’s happened either.

 

[redrosetea]

I had one of the meanest priests I have ever seen…no way would I set through that…I shopped, it’s better than losing your faith

 

[Cat]

For those who are saying that it is “Protestant” to church shop, there is a very real difference that perhaps we should keep in mind.

The Catholic Church has written-down, easily-accessible (online) norms when it comes to rubrics and the Mass. It is not a question of opinion whether it is OK to do certain things–it is in the “books.”

There are some gray areas; .e.g, music styles. But things like women priests and what the communion shall consist of (not Kool Aid and twinkies) and the actual order of the Mass is clearly defined.

But Protestant churches cannot make this claim. They have the Bible and that’s it.

One of the major reasons why a Protestant will change churches is that their church is preaching or practicing something that they see as “un-Biblical.” But it’s purely their opinion (and often the opinion of their family and friends). Unless their church is preaching or practicing obvious sin (e.g., it’s OK to have sex with people outside of marriage), then it’s really very subjective as to whether something is “unBiblical.”

There are times when a Protestant will church shop to find a church that “meets their needs” better. But based on my experience as a life-long evangelical Protestant, I would say that most folks church shop because they are convinced that their church has strayed from Biblical Christianity in some way or is “spiritually dead” based on their interpretation from the Bible of “living” churches.

JMO, but I don’t think it’s correct to say that it’s a “Protestant thing” when Catholics church shop.

 

[Cat]

Someone has raised the issue of our obligation to support our own parish financially.

Our diocese has some kind of “parish sharing program,” in which tithes from a richer church are sent to a poorer church to “help them meet their many needs.”

I’m not sure exactly how it works. But I know it’s there.

So is this a normal thing in all dioceses?

I’m not saying that this gives us an excuse to not give to our home parish. But it sounds like the dioceses are dealign with “church hopping” by making sure that parishes don’t suffer financially and die because their people are leaving to attend different parishes.

 

[ethelzguy]

ethel, you crack me up!

As noted in my previous post, the lector has a gay partner and is living an actively gay lifestyle. I happen to know this (against my wishes lol) because he is juth the sthar of the parith.

In fact, it’s probably not too much speculation to guess that a few parishioners had their cars keyed for not clapping enthusiastically enough after his performance. You have to clap after every Mass for him or the parish community gets a little unhappy at you.

At least this particular parish doesn’t encourage teens to wave lighters around and clap during the Gloria.

Seriously, you are entitled to your opinion on Church shopping, but have you not encountered the Church from the Twilight Zone yet? I admire your zealous attitude towards building a community and staying with a parish, but is this based on a lot of experience?

Heck, I haven’t even mentioned 90% of the stuff that’s happened either.

Well, if he is openly engaged in an “active” relationship, that is a horth of a different color.

I guess I have been fortunate. Even in my travels, while encountering different “customs”, I have not seen or even personally heard of, some the things I read here. Guess I’m just in a lucky bubble.

 

[ethelzguy]

Unless their church is preaching or practicing obvious sin (e.g., it’s OK to have sex with people outside of marriage), then it’s really very subjective as to whether something is “unBiblical.”

Boy, I hope they haven’t read the part about Lot and his daughters