I'm angry at evangelical religions

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The assumption is that an ECF interpreting Peter’s faith as the rock excludes him from being the rock. This was William Webster’s idea. It is refuted here: angelfire.com/ms/seanie/papacy/wlist.html

Of course even if one grants these snippets as a denial of petrine primacy there is still the inescapable issue: If a few fathers disagreeing on x catholic doctrine disproves that doctrine, then not a single father agreeing on which books belong in Scripture for 400+ years disproves Sola Scriptura.

Scott
 
Please don’t hate ALL evangelical churches. You see, the Catholic Church, Christ’s body, is the most evangelical Christian Church EVER! We are all called to evangelize and Christ’s body is now over 1 Billion strong! Now thats evangelization at work! Praise God!:bounce:

By the way, I just saw some statistics that in our Country, the USA, the percent of protestants has gone from %65 down to %50 while the Catholic Church has remained steady at %25. Now that proves we know how to evangilize better then the so-called “Evangelical” protestant churches.:dancing:
 
It is always better to grant our brother Evangelicals the benefit of the doubt. Many of them truly and sincerely believe, and strongly believed that what they preach is indeed the truth. Which is why dialogue with them should be done with kindness and patience, not with anger. Gerry 🙂
 
What I said on another post about catechists and RCIA instructors holds true for teachers we have encountered elsewhere in our search for Truth about God and His Church. Those who taught you passed on what they received themselves. If it was in error, we must first of all practice Christian charity and put the kindest possible interpretation on their actions–that they themselves have been mislead, and are teaching in good faith as they have been taught.

There is not doubt that many, teachers, preachers and pastors allow their own egos and agendas to color their work, and stubbornly cling to their ignorance by arrogantly refusing to seek out, study and recognize the Truth. There is no doubt that many people have been damaged by teachers and pastors who practice out of pride rather than in humility. However, we cannot judge them, but mourn for them and pray for them. If even negatively they have contributed to our own formation by forcing us to seek the Truth elsewhere, then we thank them.

There are many ways of learning. One is by studying what is True, but another is by studying what is false, demonstrating its falsity by comparison with what is True, and discarding the false. Both ways are valid if they lead to Truth in the end.
 
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Exporter:
SHIBBOLETH,

Your statement that Jesus built His Church on the confession of Peter is childish pratter
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Thank you,

"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
-Matt 18:3

These were not my statements but the statements of Saints. Either way I did not post them to convert anyone or something of that nature. My only purpose for doing such is to show that Lutherans and others do recognize the Church fathers and look to them for advice. Just putting forward our side of the story so that we are not accused of things unfairly.

I apologize to the starter of this thread I did not mean to take things off topic. Rejoice in the fact that you have become Catholic. I would not, however, hold animosity towards those in your past. We are called to forgive those that we believe have trespassed against us.

The good thing about strong emotions such as anger is that they can be redirected. Put that energy into diligently studding your new faith.

I rejoice just as loudly for those that come into faith in a Catholic Church as those that do so in a Lutheran Church.

God Bless
 
I wouldn’t be angry. Most Catholics don’t know the Fathers either. Most people just go with what they know or grew up with. Don’t waste time blaming them. Be gratefully they gave you some truth and that you found the whole truth. Then spread the word among them.
 
Yeah, I have been putting some thought to it. Even though I am 62 now, that is nothing compared to eternity. We all consider time by our age in this lifetime. But in reality there is no time for the human soul, only eternity. So whether I was brought into our church young or old it makes no difference where eternity is concerned, now does it?
 
I haven’t read all of the posts on this thread, but let me throw in real quick that not all of protestant evangelicalism throws out the early church fathers. Personally I’m from a Lutheran background, which obviously I favor, and believe what the Lutheran Church said in the Book of Concord, that we do not affirm any doctrine which is contrary to the Church catholic other than those abuses which arised shortly before the reformation (indulgences, belief in the infusion of righteousness rather than the imputation of it, etc.)[ie we affirm the real presence and the effect of baptism for salvation]. Secondly, in defense of my non-lutheran protestant brothers and sisters, I’d like to note that they affirm the teachings of the fathers when the fathers are unified on a subject and (even though Vencent of Lereins was a semi-pelagian) they affirm the cannon of Lereins (sp?), meaning that you are within the realm of orthodoxy when you affirm what has been believed everywhere, always, and by all. The Fathers were not always in agreement. In the case of the real presence, it was an early belief, but transubstantiation as a means of expressing that belief is a terribly late development.
 
I wouldn’t be angry if I were you. I’m a former Southern Baptist. I converted at the age of 26. Almost all of my Baptist family and other Baptist I grew up with were good and loving people, faithful to Jesus and completely and totally ignorant of the real teachings about the Catholic Church. There were so many instances of misconstructions of the Catholic position on things that I couldn’t begin to list them. But they were not done out of malice. It has never occured to me that I need to forgive them, because I don’t think I do. They told me the truth as they truly saw it.
 
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scottofindiana:
In the case of the real presence, it was an early belief, but transubstantiation as a means of expressing that belief is a terribly late development.
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Transubstantiation was merely a means to define the belief in the real presence. The Roman Catholic Church, being constantly attacked by reformists, needed to define a doctrine that has been in exsistence since the very early Church. But sadly, when the RCC defines something, they open themselves up to further attacks.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
I wouldn’t be angry if I were you. I’m a former Southern Baptist. I converted at the age of 26. Almost all of my Baptist family and other Baptist I grew up with were good and loving people, faithful to Jesus and completely and totally ignorant of the real teachings about the Catholic Church. There were so many instances of misconstructions of the Catholic position on things that I couldn’t begin to list them. But they were not done out of malice. It has never occured to me that I need to forgive them, because I don’t think I do. They told me the truth as they truly saw it.
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My Catholic sisters roll their eyes when I mention the Fathers. Oh well.
 
Exciting to see so many converts, May His Name be praised forever, Amen!!
 
Antonio B said:
"So why am I VERY angry? Because these authors and ministers who formerly taught me all this other stuff HAD TO KNOW about the truth of what the early church believed and I wasted thirty years of my life because of what they told me. I TRUSTED THEM. How could educated ministers and professors who know better and studied church history in college tell their congregations absolute lies? How?

Have any of you had a simuliar experience? Please share it with me."

I’ve been a Catholic all my life and therefore do not have a convert’s perspective but I do believe you did not waste your time because those ministers introduced you to Christ. I also do not believe they necessarily erred on “purpose” It is possible they sincerely believed that what they were teaching you was correct.
Just embrace your Catholic faith now, and pray that many other people will come to know the “full” truth.

Do not hold anger in your heart because anger can be very damaging to one’s spiritual life.

Antonio 🙂
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Wise advice! I love the zeal and the emphasis upon studying the scriptures and growing daily in a relationship with Jesus Christ of evangelicals. Catholics have a lot to learn from them, just as they have a lot to learn from Catholics.
 
I understand why your angry at Evangelicals, but I would pray to get over it and I would be thankful for the good they taught you.

I went to my first Caltholic mass with my future husband and his family and I fell in love with the beauty and majesty of the mass.
I felt like I had found something I wasn’t even looking for, the missing church history I never knew. I went back to my Methodist
church and it felt empty and sterile. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the semon from Rev MacDonald but there was just something missing (like 1500 years) and I found the fullness of the faith in the Catholic church.

savedbygrace
 
As long as we are venting a little bit I would like to add that I am angry at Yoplait Yogurt containers - the shape makes no sense what so ever.

Please ignore me and carry on…
 
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rarndt01:
If these Protestant lay people would just take the time to examine what the early fathers and the early church REALLY believed, they would cease to be Protestant. It is a TERRIBLE tragedy.
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Can someone refer me to a good, reliable website that maintains the writings of the early church fathers?
 
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rarndt01:
I was formerly a Baptist for thirty years and I was spoon fed from the pulpit and read tons of evangelical books, evangelical study bibles and yet NEVER knowing the truth REAL church truth. I trusted in Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I was taught salvation by faith ALONE and the Catholic religion apostasied RIGHT after the last apostle died. I was SOOOOOOO brainwashed, that I was brainwashed to anything different, then what I was taught.

Until I picked up a book by Stephen Ray called “Crossing the Tiber”. He made incrediable claims about the Eucharist and water baptism that I never heard. Never!!! And he quoted the early church fathers as well. At first I said this guy got whammied by some Catholic guru. But I went and purchased a Logos CD on the early fathers and installed it on my PC. What I read FLOORED ME. They ALL held to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and baptism regeneration. I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT. I was shocked! Slowly God opened my eyes to these new truths and other Catholic beliefs. Also I found MUCH truth right here on the web page of Catholic answers in the :Fathers know best" series. Thank you Catholic Answers, thank you.

So why am I VERY angry? Because these authors and ministers who formerly taught me all this other stuff HAD TO KNOW about the truth of what the early church believed and I wasted thirty years of my life because of what they told me. I TRUSTED THEM. How could educated ministers and professors who know better and studied church history in college tell their congregations absolute lies? How?

Have any of you had a simuliar experience? Please share it with me.
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Don’t feel bad or condemn all protestants like the Baptist preachers. Many of those preachers may have been duped like you too. They don’t study honest history so they don’t allways see the truth either. Many just ignore the truth because it’s easier and they just don’t care? Just trust in God and pray to Blessed Mary and all the Saints to pray with you to God for all those others you left behind. They’re not lost, just misguided;) .
 
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