I'm Angry!

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The Church has never changed any doctrine in 2000 years. If the Church did, she would cease to BE the Church.

We are required to do penance on Fridays as well as on Ash Wednesday. THAT is doctrine. The practice associated with that doctrine has been to abstain from meat on those days. There are some countries (the US is one of them) where the Bishops have permitted people to choose an alternative form of penance on Friday.

So, it is a sin if you do not do penance on Friday. The form of that penance may or may not be meat.

For “annulments”, well that term is so misleading that it is no wonder people get confused. The Church has always offered to examine a marriage and see if it was valid. If the marriage is found to be invalid, the Church declares it to be null - thus, people stated calling that an “annulment”. Heck, Henry VIII got a bit upset because his marriage to Cathrine of Aragon was found to be valid (in today’s parlance, he did not get the annulment he wanted).

What has changed is that society now sees divorce as no big deal, so, there are bushels and bushels of request for those who can or won’t live with their spouse any longer to have the marriage reviewed.

Jesus sat down the rules on marriage and validity, all that has changed is the process for the paperwork and the frequency of the reviews.

The Church doctrine will be the same forever. Practices and traditions might change, doctrine may be better understood, but, it will never change.

Trust Jesus that He did not lie!
 
Nick003 said:
I felt it was important to come back and apologize for my previous post, venting my anger over the loss of someone I’d grown to love. It just doesn’t seem fair that I should have to sacrifice the love of this woman because she was divorced and not annulled.
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I understand your frustration; however, she made a vow before God to a different man (not you) of “Until death us do part,” and God expects her to keep that vow. It seems, since she was not granted a Declaration of Nullity, that she was fully conscious and fully aware at the time that she was making a permanent and unbreakable vow.
Another source of frustration is that the Church keeps changing rules. I mean is it or is it not a sin to eat meat on Friday? I find it depends on who you ask, but I err on the side of caution and choose not to eat meat on any Friday (let’s not have this become a topic of debate here). Now, they are changing the format of the Sunday Mass because they want to get back to the more literal translation from Latin.
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Changes in the disciplines of the Church take place as the need arises. Be glad we don’t still have public floggings for adulterers - needs change over time.
I’ve recently learned that prior to 1960, Annulment was something which was not required. Is this true?
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In a sense, yes. Back then, they assumed that everyone who got married was fully conscious at the time of the wedding, so Declarations of Nullity were not granted in cases of divorce. It was simply expected that divorced people would remain single until one of them died (“until death us do part”) and then the survivor would be allowed to remarry.

The exceptions would have been if a girl who was too young to give consent was married off to an old man, or if someone who had an obvious mental illness attempted marriage.
 
Nick003 said:
I find myself at a point in my life where I am tired of being alone. When I was younger, it didn’t bother me as much. But now the prospect of growing old alone is become increasingly troubling for me.
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You are not alone. You can’t even comprehend how not alone you are.

-Tim-
 
I htink I can understand the “feeling alone” part. I know that we are never truly alone, but sometimes we need “God with skin on.” Some people are called to be single, others not. But it isn’t always clear to us which calling is ours. I still haven’t got that one figured out, and I’m 49! What doesn’t help is that, before becoming a Catholic, I was married and then divorced. I later did apply for, and get, an annulment. At the time it was more of just being another step of trying to put that behind me. Has this other woman even applied for an annulment? Or is there something holding her back from that? Don’t give up on women just yet. It may take awhile, but God might have just the right one still waiting to be met.
 
nick003,
hey looks like you’re human!! anger accepted–apology accepted!!
my heart goes out to you. but i have a question, if she loves you why doesn’t she seek an annulment?? she knows your faith is important to you, but quite honestly it looks like hers is “not” as important. do you really want to be with someone who has already
started to turn you away from the church of which we are all members of the Mystical Body of Christ. it is hard to know and realize something that we cannot feel, touch, or see is more important than what or who we can see, feel, or touch. i am refering to your soul.
somehow we. or some of us let that not take first place, when we are younger or in love with another human being. when we get older, like myself, i finally realized i forgot or let the worldly things and people take priority.
once i finally came back, i wondered why i had left. so i think you are on the right track here. you came forth and are questioning and with God’s grace in a round about way asking yourself what is most important here.
“now that you are older” maybe God has put her in your path to challenge
your sincerity in how much you love Him…kind of hard but being Catholic/Christian
is hard.
because you let your thoughts and feelings come forward here–i think deep down and we are all good at hiding the truth within us–you are not going to let human love interfere with God’s love for you and your growing love toward God that seems to knock us silly the older we do get.
plus from what you’ve said yes, i guess it would be nice to have someone to grow old with, but do you want that someone to rend havoc in your soul or bring peace.
from what i hear the love of God is better than any earthly love. haven’t been there myself but workin’ on it. i think you’re looking for a soul mate rather than a i’ll be less lonely mate.
may the Holy Spirit continue to guide you to do what is best for your soul.

p.s. i’m almost positive annulment was there before the 60’s. it was much more difficult to get one then, compared to now, though the whole process is difficult. my mother wanted one but when she couldn’t get an annulment all thoughts of divorce went out the window.
when i was younger i was sorry that she stayed with my father. now that i am older i am very glad she stayed–even though it was “for the worse”.
God Love you!!!
 
I am sure it is very difficult, but Catholics who have recourse to divorce because there were no other alternatives, should think twice before dating someone with marriage in mind. A Catholic without an annulment is still married, and it is pointless and can lead to much heartache to pursue a relationship in this situation.
 
Nick, I posted on your original thread since I had not seen it previously.

To reprise here, for the benefit of all, If she is assuming she cannot get an annulment please assure her that this may not be the case. I spent years believing that I could not return to the Sacraments because I had been divorced and thought that I could not an annulment.
It turned out I was wrong.

Please encourage her to talk to someone familiar with the process - and that is important - it needs to be someone familiar with the process.

Peace
James
 
Owlpride said:
I don’t get it either…another church teaching that sounds based in cruelty, not love.
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It is based on a deep respect for what Jesus said about marriage. It is love that is beyond the hollywood romance we have been fooled into calling “love”.
 
MrJaundicedEye said:
You need to read instead of post. You continue to make noob mistakes which could be avoided by just, like, using google, you know?

So, go, google, read, and learn, then post. There have been roughly 17 billion internet threads about each of your objections and questions. Use them.
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You must screen what you read on the internet. If you depend on Google fine. But Google does not rate the reliability of the search.

Go ahead and use Google all you want.

If I have a toothache, I go to a dentist, if I have a stomach ache, I go to a doctor and if I have a question about my faith, I’ll go to a web site on the subject.

I found your response condescending and frankly, no help at all.
 
She should see her priest. If she is just assuming than she may be wrong. Or if she wants she can come to our group and run it by the Canon lawyer who will probably send her to her priest as well but may give her some better ideas. As far as 1960- yes the Church did require annulment way before 1960- remember the whole Henry VIII debacle that caused the Anglican schism.
 
Nick003 said:
I felt it was important to come back and apologize for my previous post, venting my anger over the loss of someone I’d grown to love. It just doesn’t seem fair that I should have to sacrifice the love of this woman because she was divorced and not annulled.

There are a lot of things that contribute to the frustration I am experiencing, one being the fact that I seek the approval of an organization which suffers from its own moral dilemmas. I realize that every group or organization has its bad apples and the Catholic Church isn’t any different.

Another source of frustration is that the Church keeps changing rules. I mean is it or is it not a sin to eat meat on Friday? I find it depends on who you ask, but I err on the side of caution and choose not to eat meat on any Friday (let’s not have this become a topic of debate here). Now, they are changing the format of the Sunday Mass because they want to get back to the more literal translation from Latin.

I’ve recently learned that prior to 1960, Annulment was something which was not required. Is this true? If so, it is yet another rule change. I feel most strongly about the requirement of Annulment; I guess because at this point in my life, it effects me directly. Perhaps I wouldn’t feel so strongly if my life wasn’t impacted by it. It is easy to say that you wouldn’t get involved with someone who wasn’t annulled.

Generally speaking, my situation has become frustrating. I find myself at a point in my life where I am tired of being alone. When I was younger, it didn’t bother me as much. But now the prospect of growing old alone is become increasingly troubling for me.

I want to settle down with someone who I can share my life with and with someone who wants to share their life with me. At my age, it is very difficult to meet someone who has never been married. It is rare that you find someone who has taken the time to have their marriage annulled. And of course, there is widowed but to look for someone who has lost a husband seems downright morbid.

So I think that my frustration is understandable.

Again, my apologies for my outburst.
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I didn’t see the earlier post so I’m lacking context here.

While your sadness, isolation, and frustration are understandable, you should understand that Church law does not exist to promote your temporal happiness but the good of your eternal soul.

The good of your eternal soul requires sacrifice, mortification, suffering, and self-denial. If it seems you are getting more of it in this life than many others, you can take some comfort, at least, in the fact that you have many more opportunities than many others to offer up your suffering to God in penance for your sins. Those who seem comfortable in this life will not only lose everything but have the temporal punishments for their sins visited on them in purgatory.

Perhaps you should take this as a sign that God’s plans for you diverge from your own?
 
Owlpride said:
I don’t get it either…another church teaching that sounds based in cruelty, not love.
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The Church is here to help us get to heaven not to make us happy in this life. The Church teaches what Jesus taught. He taught that marriage is between a man and a woman and let no man separate what God has joined together.

We break promises quite casually in today’s society. But when you stand on that altar and vow ‘for better or worse’ you better know exactly what you are saying because God will hold us to our vow.

This may seem harsh and cruel to the spouse who’s partner walks out the door and abandons them. But they are still expected to keep their vow unless they can show that the marriage was invalid to begin with.

The Church takes marriage very, very seriously. Society today does not. It’s a party, a pretty dress and a few years of guiltless sex until you move on to the next one.
 
vsedriver said:
The Church is here to help us get to heaven not to make us happy in this life. The Church teaches what Jesus taught. He taught that marriage is between a man and a woman and let no man separate what God has joined together.

We break promises quite casually in today’s society. But when you stand on that altar and vow ‘for better or worse’ you better know exactly what you are saying because God will hold us to our vow.

This may seem harsh and cruel to the spouse who’s partner walks out the door and abandons them. But they are still expected to keep their vow unless they can show that the marriage was invalid to begin with.

The Church takes marriage very, very seriously. Society today does not. It’s a party, a pretty dress and a few years of guiltless sex until you move on to the next one.
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The bolded section above is precisely why the Church carefully reviews applications for annulments. Because, not only do people break promises much more regularly today, they also tend not to take “oaths” and “vows” as seriously as they use to.
As a result, there may have been a defect in the marriage commitment which prevented a valid marriage from occurring.

Peace
James
 
Nick003 said:
I have to say that I’m feeling pretty angry right now. I met a woman and in my eyes, she is flawless with one exception; she is divorced.
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The only flawless woman is taken, to heaven, by her Son.

It sounds as if you are caught up in a romantic fantasy.
 
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