I'm calling on everyone here in this forum EXCEPT Catholics !!!

[Ag_not]

AG: I’ve just spat my coffee out

RA: I would, too, if I had to read how someone could be that sure of their relationship to God, and that positive of the love and salvation that no one (and nothing) could destroy – while I was still trying to work my way to heaven (oh, sorry, with God’s grace).

RA

:coolinoff: :coolinoff: :coolinoff:

Would someone mind opening a window in here please.

Someones aftershave lotion is suffocating me .

Eau de presumption I think it is.

No wait.

Eau d’Arrogance.

That’s it.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

**Flame: **If salvation did not rest at least in part on hope, then hope would not be specified as a virtue. “We hope for what do not see” (Romans 8:24-25).

RA: That is faith. We are talking past each other.

My *faith *gives me a hope, and that hope (if indeed it is based on a reality, which is what my faith tells me it is), does NOT disappoint:

“Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. . . . we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.” (Rom. 5:1-5)

This is the certainty about which I speak. From scripture, based on scripture, there is no doubt in me (beyond the step of faith that is there that is needed for embracing the entire paradigm, if you will) that I will be going to heaven.

This brings that peace that passes all understanding, and that assurance of no judgment to come: “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1).

In my paradigm, I could be no more sure than I already am now of the eternal life that awaits me (based on those aspects of my faith I enumerated).

**Flame: **YOU cannot be certain, in this life, that YOU, beyond all disputing are an object of those promises.

RA: Really? Hmmmm…

“Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.”
(I John 3:18-20)

“We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.”
(1 John 5:19-20)

“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.”
(1 John 5:11-12)

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.”
(1 John 5:1-5)

“I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted (my eternal salvation) to him for that day.” (2 Tim 1:12).

“Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure.”
(Heb 6:17-19)

There are lots more. You’re a double predestination Calvinist? You don’t sound like one.

Flame: I have had people tell me ‘of a surety’ that Christ would return before 1988

**RA: **Apples and oranges. C’mon, flame.

Flame: And aside from the specific theological construct which you bring to the Scriptures–how is the ‘witness of the Holy Spirit’ and the “witness of my life” in your case–or in mine–different from the “witness” which constitutes a ‘testimony’ among Mormons?

**RA: **You should REALLY be able to answer that if you are a double predestination Calvinist. Read my post again and the things I listed. You sound like a smart cookie. Think it through.

**Flame: **the hope we have in God our Savior (Psalm 25:5, NIV) than upon our own smug reading of the text.

**RA: **Smug??? You’ve got to be kidding me. And what’s with the boasting, boasting boasting rant?

*"My soul will make its boast in the LORD; The humble will hear it and rejoice (Psalm 34:2). *
I guess you didn’t hear it.

"It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord” (1 Cor. 1:30-31).
I guess you missed it – again.

My confidence, my boasting (if you will), is in the Lord and all he has accomplished on my behalf that has saved me and cleansed me from my sins and guaranteed me eternal life in his Son, by grace grace, through my faith I have placed in him – a living faith evidenced in my life and obedience and service to him.

That is boasting in the Lord, and there is nothing “smug” about it. In fact, it is the very opposite of smug since it recognizes that absolutely nothing can be done by me to affect my standing before God from an eternal perspective. I am either his, or I am not his. I am either his child, or I am not his child.

My own election, salvation, justification is an unmerited gift to me from Him, through Christ Jesus. Smug? I don’t thing so. Humbled before a Mighty God who for some reason chose me, loves me, leads me, and preserves me? Yes.

RA

 

[sandusky]

BLUEMOON74:

I have to say,all religion aside, I feel cocky saying oh yeah I am so going to heaven, by any means.

No one goes to heaven by “any means,” but by grace, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

BLUEMOON74:

I would certainly hope so, but to just assume for any reason just feels really rude and presumptuos to God.

Again, it’s not just “for any reason,” but by grace, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

BLUEMOON74:

Who am I to say that? It’s His decision.

You don’t understand grace.

BLUEMOON74:

What a fool I would feel like the day that I die, and I am just happy as can be assuming I am saved bc Jesus died on the cross for my sins, and not by any merit of my own to go with that, and He says, “Uh noooo, see ya later sister.” or “Off to Purgatory you go, see ya”. Can we say mortified?–hello! Not to mention humiliated and very repentant.

But as a Catholic, you should expect punishment for your sins in purgatory; as the church teaches, there is temporal punishment for your sins that you must endure; why would you be mortified to receive what you’ve been prepared by your church to expect to receive?

BLUEMOON74:

The bar is set very high to get into heaven, even if you are a good person, you’re going to purgatory, you would have to be near perfection, or the perfect cute grandma down the street, so I would rather not live in denial or make a big bafoon out of myself before God any more than I am sure I have at some point in my life.

That’s salvation by works, and now we’ll wait for the denial of Catholics that they are NOT saved by works.

Jesus didn’t come to make you a “good person.” He came to give LIFE—accept the gift of life on His terms, not your’s.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

I just can’t imagine that. I can’t imagine God saying come on up to whoever believes in me. You have to do much more than that just in your career alone on this earth if you want to keep it, I would think heaven would require even more than, “Oh, you are saved and going to heaven by my grace alone.” No way. It doesn’t make sense. In my conscious it doesn’t add up, Catholic or not. To me it’s common sense and simple logic that there are certain steps to getting there post life and that means Purgatory or something like it. Sure I would love to be able to go straight to heaven, noone wants to have their insides singed off by fire while they wait in misery for God. But, I would rather that than hanging out down there in the worse alternative.

No one goes to heaven by “any means,” but by grace, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

Again, it’s not just “for any reason,” but by grace, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

You don’t understand grace.

But as a Catholic, you should expect punishment for your sins in purgatory; as the church teaches, there is temporal punishment for your sins that you must endure; why would you be mortified to receive what you’ve been prepared by your church to expect to receive?

That’s salvation by works, and now we’ll wait for the denial of Catholics that they are NOT saved by works.

Jesus didn’t come to make you a “good person.” He came to give LIFE—accept the gift of life on His terms, not your’s.

 

[sandusky]

BLUEMOON74:

I just can’t imagine that. I can’t imagine God saying come on up to whoever believes in me.

**John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.**

BLUEMOON74:

You have to do much more than that just in your career alone on this earth if you want to keep it, I would think heaven would require even more than, "Oh, you are saved and going to heaven by my grace alone."

**Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.**

No way. It doesn’t make sense. In my conscious it doesn’t add up, Catholic or not. To me it’s common sense and simple logic that there are certain steps to getting there post life and that means Purgatory or something like it. Sure I would love to be able to go straight to heaven, noone wants to have their insides singed off by fire while they wait in misery for God. But, I would rather that than hanging out down there in the worse alternative.

**1 Corinthians 1:18

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.**

 

[Richard_Abanes]

Sand,

Beautiful scriptures…

RA

 

[steve_b]

But as a Catholic, you should expect punishment for your sins in purgatory; as the church teaches, there is temporal punishment for your sins that you must endure; why would you be mortified to receive what you’ve been prepared by your church to expect to receive?

The Church teaches it because the bible teaches it.

sand:

That’s salvation by works, and now we’ll wait for the denial of Catholics that they are NOT saved by works.

If you are doing good works now, STOP. Don’t do them anymore. Stop them completely. Since they are useless. Then when you die, and Jesus reviews your life, see if you’re right on judgement day.

Mt 16:27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

Mt 25:

41"Then He will also say to those on His left, Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for )the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
44"Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45"Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

BTW, the righteous were the ones as you can read before these set of passages who did good works. Good works complete faith, without which, faith is dead.

sand:

Jesus didn’t come to make you a “good person.”

:doh2: sheesh

sand:

He came to give LIFE—accept the gift of life on His terms, not your’s.

Oh boy!!!

In that case, you better beat your way to the Catholic Church immediately and enroll in RCIA. Because if you don’t prepare yourself to receive the Eucharist you have NO life in you and He won’t raise you on the last day… Those are HIS terms.

Jn 6:
48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." 52* The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56* He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58* This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” 59* This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Caperna-um. 60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61* But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62* Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63* It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64* But there are some of you that do not believe.”

This is HIS way.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

Steve: The Church teaches it because the bible teaches it.

RA: And therein lies the debate. I’ll follow-up: No, it doesn’t. You confuse sanctification with justification. They are two separate things.

Steve: If you are doing good works now, STOP. Don’t do them anymore. Stop them completely. Since they are useless.

RA: They are obedience. They are a natural response to our LOVE for Jesus Christ, who said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). I love him, so I keep his commandments.

Also, James 1:27 says, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”

Also…well, you get the idea. I’m serving God and doing good works because I love my savior and as a Christian it is the oebdient/right thing to do. Moreover, as I grow in grace (i.e., become more sanctified, or become more like Jesus), I am compelled more and more to behave like Jesus because I am more like him.

But I am NOT doing it to make myself acceptable to God so I can get into heaven. I am acceptable to God ALREADY because of Jesus Christ, his death/blood that has cleansed me from all sin and made me right before God. I am God’s son, now, and I can cry out Abba, Father.

**Steve: **"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

RA: Bro, you missed it: “It is the *SPIRIT *that gives life, the flesh is of NO AVAIL; the words that I have spoken to you are *SPIRIT *and life.”

He is using a spiritual metaphor like the Hebrews always used: flesh and blood are metaphors for his life-giving self being taken into you as a Christian. The words are spiritual. he also called himself a fountain a living water: "On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ‘If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.’ (John 7:37).

You’d better be taking sips off of a fountain somewhere that spouts up Jesus water, too, if you want to interpret flesh and blood literally.

That’s all I’m gonna say about communion.

RA.

 

[sandusky]

steve b:

The Church teaches it because the bible teaches it.

I’ve never seen a plausible teaching for purgatory in the scripture. Where do you see it?
steve b:

If you are doing good works now, STOP. Don’t do them anymore. Stop them completely. Since they are useless. Then when you die, and Jesus reviews your life, see if you’re right on judgement day.

I can’t stop; I’m compelled to do good works because I’ve been saved to them (Eph 2:10), and, they’re not what I’m saved by, but grace.
steve b:

BTW, the righteous were the ones as you can read before these set of passages who did good works. Good works complete faith, without which, faith is dead.

Good works testify to a living, saving faith (Jas 2).
steve b:

sheesh

What do you mean?
steve b:

In that case, you better beat your way to the Catholic Church immediately and enroll in RCIA. Because if you don’t prepare yourself to receive the Eucharist you have NO life in you and He won’t raise you on the last day… Those are HIS terms.

Partaking of the eucharist doesn’t save anyone, but grace through faith, and I’m not on board with your understanding of John 6.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

There has to be more to it than that. I agree somewhat and understand your take on scripture and how you can be saved by grace. Jesus died on the cross for our sins so we could have eternal life. Makes sense. Thing is there are many scriptures that say more than what you just put out there. There IS more to it than that. My conscious alone tells me that. People cannot just go around acting the fool and expect that just bc they believe in God they will go to heaven right away. A person must be spiritually cleaned in order to do that. Your take on if you “think” you are doing good works bc God lives in your heart, may not be HIS idea of good works. Ever thought you did a great job on something and someone else more talented than you thought it sucked? That’s common sense every day logic. I understand grace just not your take on it. Your concept of grace and salvation may not be exactly what God has in mind, mine might not be either, you just think yours is, and that’s the difference. That’s the arrogance I am talking about. It feels cocky to be so presumptuous that I have all the answers bc of MY take on the bible, and what man or MY religion has taught me. I know where I am going bc I believe in my heart I am right and justify it with Scripture? How do you know of a place that you have never been to? Seen it on a postcard? Had a dream? A vision? There’s more to it than meets the eye and the book. If I could only have coffee with Jesus and ask him, but I guess that would take all the fun out of it for him. I guess what I am saying is we never really know, atleast I wont claim to know all that there is and if I am doing it the right way bc what we have is intangible, there’s not a Go to Heaven for Dummies book (bible doesnt count bc it is difficult to understand at some points), we are left with a bible, a church, and our conscious, and our prayer to figure it out.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

Richard this is where you are supposed to be commenting. Not on the poll, you promised no haggling. Dont give protestants a bad name by not sticking to your word. If someone challenges you, you just say I said I would not discuss it and please direct yourself to xyz posts for further discussion or create on new one!!!npatrol:

Steve: The Church teaches it because the bible teaches it.

RA: And therein lies the debate. I’ll follow-up: No, it doesn’t. You confuse sanctification with justification. They are two separate things.

Steve: If you are doing good works now, STOP. Don’t do them anymore. Stop them completely. Since they are useless.

RA: They are obedience. They are a natural response to our LOVE for Jesus Christ, who said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). I love him, so I keep his commandments.

Also, James 1:27 says, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”

Also…well, you get the idea. I’m serving God and doing good works because I love my savior and as a Christian it is the oebdient/right thing to do. Moreover, as I grow in grace (i.e., become more sanctified, or become more like Jesus), I am compelled more and more to behave like Jesus because I am more like him.

But I am NOT doing it to make myself acceptable to God so I can get into heaven. I am acceptable to God ALREADY because of Jesus Christ, his death/blood that has cleansed me from all sin and made me right before God. I am God’s son, now, and I can cry out Abba, Father.

**Steve: **"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

RA: Bro, you missed it: “It is the *SPIRIT *that gives life, the flesh is of NO AVAIL; the words that I have spoken to you are *SPIRIT *and life.”

He is using a spiritual metaphor like the Hebrews always used: flesh and blood are metaphors for his life-giving self being taken into you as a Christian. The words are spiritual. he also called himself a fountain a living water: "On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ‘If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.’ (John 7:37).

You’d better be taking sips off of a fountain somewhere that spouts up Jesus water, too, if you want to interpret flesh and blood literally.

That’s all I’m gonna say about communion.

RA.

 

[Sailka]

You do realize that all the rites in the Catholic Church are all part of the SAME religion, right? We all believe exactly the same things. There are even a few rites that are the results of a group coming back to Rome after being away for so long, thanks be to God.

The Very Basic ‘Rites’ are the Same. The same Essentials. The readings of The Word, the Kyrie Eleisons (Greek), the real Presence Consecration. But Most detailed rites are very different. They Incense very much.They administer Sacraments at different ages. Eastern and Orthodox give Comunion to Infants, by spoon.

The Orthodox Churches, including our united Eastern brothers have an Earlier form of Mass/Divine Liturgy, which is the Last Supper Feast of Our Lord.

We are all Apostolic powers Original Church directly founded by our Lord. Same 7 Sacraments. Same basic dogma.:byzsoc:

 

[sandusky]

BLUEMOON74:

There has to be to it than that.

I think this comes from an incorrect idea of who you are before God, apart from Christ. Apart from Christ, you are unable to do anything. Scripture says there’s none righteous, not even one, and none who does good, none who seeks for God (Rom 3:10ff). Have you read that? Do you believe that? If you don’t believe that, that’s part of the problem.

In order to lay hold of the good news, you must first understand and embrace the bad news: apart from Christ, you’re utterly helpless and ungodly (Rom 5:6).

BLUEMOON74:

I agree with your take on scripture and how you can be saved by grace. Jesus died on the cross for our sins so we could have eternal life. Makes sense. Thing is there are many scriptures that say more than what you just put out there. There IS more to it than that. My conscious alone tells me that.

ISTM that you’re leaning on your own understanding, rather than embracing the word, and allowing it to work in you (Pro 3:5ff; cf 1 Cor 2:14).

BLUEMOON74:

People cannot just go around acting the fool and expect that just bc they believe in God they will go to heaven right away. A person must be spiritually cleaned in order to do that. Your take on if you “think” you are doing good works bc God lives in your heart, may not be HIS idea of good works. Ever thought you did a great job on something and someone else more talented than you thought it sucked? That’s common sense every day logic.

God doesn’t think what we do “sucks.” He dwells within the believer, working through him, and directing the faithful’s will to work (Php 2:13).

BLUEMOON74:

I understand grace just not your take on it. Your concept of grace and salvation may not be exactly what God has in mind, mine might not be either, you just think yours is, and that’s the difference. That’s the arrogance I am talking about.

It’s not arrogant to believe the testimony of God that I’ve been sealed in the ownership of God, and that my citizenship is in heaven (Eph 1:13-14; Php 3:20). But it is arrogant on the part of your leadership to tell you that you’re presumptuous if you believe.

BLUEMOON74:

It feels cocky to be so presumptuous that I have all the answers bc of MY take on the bible, and what man or MY religion has taught me. I know where I am going bc I believe in my heart I am right and justify it with Scripture?

What you say above applies in the same measure to you, and to what you’ve been taught, and to what you believe, and why you believe it.

BLUEMOON74:

How do you know of a place that you have never been to? Seen it on a postcard? Had a dream? A vision? There’s more to it than meets the eye and the book.

I walk by faith, and not by sight (2 Cor 5:7).

BLUEMOON74:

If I could only have coffee with Jesus and ask him, but I guess that would take all the fun out of it for him. I guess what I am saying is we never really know, atleast I wont claim to know all that there is and if I am doing it the right way bc what we have is intangible, there’s not a Go to Heaven for Dummies book (bible doesnt count bc it is difficult to understand at some points), we are left with a bible, a church, and our conscious, and our prayer to figure it out.

You can have coffee with the Lord as often you like; open the scripture, read them, meditate on them, and pray them to Him.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

BLUE: this is where you are supposed to be commenting. Not on the poll, you promised no haggling. Dont give protestants a bad name by not sticking to your word.

RA: Q@!$@%$WQW$A~@#$@&# – I got my threads mixed and now, I can’t hit the edit button on the prayer poll to remove my comments. sorry, you’re right, of course, I thought a couple of those on the other thread WERE indeed here. rats.

RA

 

[BLUEMOON74]

BLUE: this is where you are supposed to be commenting. Not on the poll, you promised no haggling. Dont give protestants a bad name by not sticking to your word.

RA: Q@!$@%$WQW$A~@#$@&# – I got my threads mixed and now, I can’t hit the edit button on the prayer poll to remove my comments. sorry, you’re right, of course, I thought a couple of those on the other thread WERE indeed here. rats.

RA

:hug3: Ok. I believe you. I’m on patrol bc you promised, and, I had a nightmare about the purple guy last night. I can’t take it anymore and I didn’t even do anything. lol

 

[Richard_Abanes]

**BLUE: **Ok. I believe you. I’m on patrol bc you promised, and, I had a nightmare about the purple guy last night. I can’t take it anymore and I didn’t even do anything. lol

RA: DANG, I keep thinking about that little blue guy, too. I’ve been ruined!!! I think every time I am confronted with a decision to sin, I’m gonna think of that little guy and imagine it’s Jesus. Oh my, is that sinful?

Yeah, seriously, too many threads makes one an idiot. I wonder why I can’t edit my comments out from that thread. No edit button. I was gonna copy and move them here.

RA

 

[BLUEMOON74]

I think this comes from an incorrect idea of who you are before God, apart from Christ. Apart from Christ, you are unable to do anything. Scripture says there’s none righteous, not even one, and none who does good, none who seeks for God (Rom 3:10ff). Have you read that? Do you believe that? If you don’t believe that, that’s part of the problem.

Yes, I have read it, and I totally believe that, I think most of us do, but I still have questions.

In order to lay hold of the good news, you must first understand and embrace the bad news: apart from Christ, you’re utterly helpless and ungodly (Rom 5:6).

Agree
ISTM that you’re leaning on your own understanding, rather than embracing the word, and allowing it to work in you (Pro 3:5ff; cf 1 Cor 2:14).

Yes leaning on my own understanding, my own conscious, and what I hear from different religions

God doesn’t think what we do “sucks.” He dwells within the believer, working through him, and directing the faithful’s will to work (Php 2:13).

Yes he does,lol. If I burned the cake, He’s not going to say good job, he may not be mean about it, but I doubt he will give me credit for shoddy work. I tend to think God has a dry sense of humor and personality, maybe thats just how I identify with HIM

It’s not arrogant to believe the testimony of God that I’ve been sealed in the ownership of God, and that my citizenship is in heaven (Eph 1:13-14; Php 3:20). But it is arrogant on the part of your leadership to tell you that you’re presumptuous if you believe.

That was slick lol. I dont think our priests look at it that way though. When I was a little girl, a priest told us at Mass that, “the people that thought they had it all together, were perfect, knew all that there was to know about Jesus, and were convinced of their salvation, and going straight to heaven were probably the one’s who weren’t.” He said, “that’s arrogance, and, it’s the people that believe they still have so much to learn, a healthy fear and respect of God, and want to be closer than him and are willing to apprentice all of their lives are going to be judged with mercy and compassion.”

What you say above applies in the same measure to you, and to what you’ve been taught, and to what you believe, and why you believe it.

I think it applies to everyone.

I walk by faith, and not by sight (2 Cor 5:7).

How do you know that? I believe in God even though I have never seen HIM, so I walk by faith too, but what about everything else?

You can have coffee with the Lord as often you like; open the scripture, read them, meditate on them, and pray them to Him.

THAT’S NOT THE SAME!!! I mean in real life. Literally. It’s no fun pretending he’s there. I wish He would just visit us all once or twice in our life times so we can ask questions, kind of in way as in he’s a professor and were students and we ask questions and he explains and then we get it, but we have a time limit on an open window. In real-time. Somedays, I just know he’s there and someday’s I can’t tell. I know he is all powerful and omnicient and if he walked in the house our hair would probably turn orange and our ears bleed in his divine presence, but if He could just sit down with us in a way that we could talk to him without imploding, it would be great. But, I know that’s not going to happen. So were just here with our intuition, prayer, and love for him I guess.

 

[SimonArizona]

You had a nightmare about the Purple guy last night? http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10/simonazre/barney-dinosaur.jpg

 

[SimonArizona]

THAT’S NOT THE SAME!!! I mean in real life. Literally. It’s no fun pretending he’s there. I wish He would just visit us all once or twice in our life times so we can ask questions, kind of in way as in he’s a professor and were students and we ask questions and he explains and then we get it, but we have a time limit on an open window. In real-time. Somedays, I just know he’s there and someday’s I can’t tell. I know he is all powerful and omnicient and if he walked in the house our hair would probably turn orange and our ears bleed in his divine presence, but if He could just sit down with us in a way that we could talk to him without imploding, it would be great. But, I know that’s not going to happen. So were just here with our intuition, prayer, and love for him I guess.

God actually visits me. Although He is Spirit so He doesn’t have a body like a professor.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

**BLUE: **Ok. I believe you. I’m on patrol bc you promised, and, I had a nightmare about the purple guy last night. I can’t take it anymore and I didn’t even do anything. lol

RA: DANG, I keep thinking about that little blue guy, too. I’ve been ruined!!! I think every time I am confronted with a decision to sin, I’m gonna think of that little guy and imagine it’s Jesus. Oh my, is that sinful?

Yeah, seriously, too many threads makes one an idiot. I wonder why I can’t edit my comments out from that thread. No edit button. I was gonna copy and move them here.

RA

lol yeah I know me too.

You have to copy one at a time paste into a word pad to save them to copy somewhere else so you dont lose them, then delete the posts you want and you have to give the admin a reason for deletion. then come back here and re paste from the word pad, make sure you keep the code. just click on to quote your own self bc its been too much time expired to edit your own posts to get the code.