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emeraldcoast
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You know as an Episcopalian, Pittsburgh is not on my list right now of places to vacation…:coffeeread:
When I think of Pittsburgh, the terrible towel comes to mind… :slapfight:
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When I think of Pittsburgh, the terrible towel comes to mind… :slapfight:
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adstrinity
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Richard_Abanes
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"…nor anything else in all creation"
Are you in all creation or not? If so, even you cannot separate you from the love of God once you have been joined to him in justification/salvation/faith.
Your passages about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are about…oh never-mind.
Basically, they have nothing to do with our topic. But, whatever…
peace,
RA
Are you in all creation or not? If so, even you cannot separate you from the love of God once you have been joined to him in justification/salvation/faith.
Your passages about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are about…oh never-mind.
Basically, they have nothing to do with our topic. But, whatever…
peace,
RA
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adstrinity
Guest
Let’s go over this. St. Paul says something, Jesus says something, you go with St. Paul’s saying."…nor anything else in all creation"
Are you in all creation or not? If so, even you cannot separate you from the love of God once you have been joined to him in justification/salvation/faith.
Your passages about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are about…oh never-mind.
Basically, they have nothing to do with our topic. But, whatever…
peace,
RA
Jesus says there is nothing externally that can take you away from God. You put words in His mouth saying this means the individual person, even though, this is not what is in the text.
Jesus says that there is one unforgivable sin. You allude to this is not what Jesus means.
I hope you seriously are here to learn about Catholicism so that you can see how Tradition sees things. Even if you cannot agree, I hope you can appreciate how things had been and are still done.
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Richard_Abanes
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**ADS: **Let’s go over this.
RA: Please
**ADS:**St. Paul says something, Jesus says something, you go with St. Paul’s saying.
RA: Mistake #1. Wrong.
ADS: Jesus says there is nothing externally that can take you away from God. You put words in His mouth saying this means the individual person, even though, this is not what is in the text.
RA: Mistake #2. Wrong.
ADS: Jesus says that there is one unforgivable sin. You allude to this is not what Jesus means.
RA: Mistake #3. Wrong. yes, there is indeed one unforgivable sin. Sigh. It has nothing to do with working for salvation, or separating ourselves from God’s love after we’ve accepted him.
ADA: I hope you seriously are here to learn about Catholicism so that you can see how Tradition sees things.
RA: I was raised RC, thank you very much. I know very well what RC teaches. Mkay? And being a religion journalist is my career. So, no, I’m not hear to “learn about Catholicism.” I already know about it.
ADS: Even if you cannot agree, I hope you can appreciate how things had been and are still done.
RA: Oh, I do.
peace,
RA
RA: Please
**ADS:**St. Paul says something, Jesus says something, you go with St. Paul’s saying.
RA: Mistake #1. Wrong.
ADS: Jesus says there is nothing externally that can take you away from God. You put words in His mouth saying this means the individual person, even though, this is not what is in the text.
RA: Mistake #2. Wrong.
ADS: Jesus says that there is one unforgivable sin. You allude to this is not what Jesus means.
RA: Mistake #3. Wrong. yes, there is indeed one unforgivable sin. Sigh. It has nothing to do with working for salvation, or separating ourselves from God’s love after we’ve accepted him.
ADA: I hope you seriously are here to learn about Catholicism so that you can see how Tradition sees things.
RA: I was raised RC, thank you very much. I know very well what RC teaches. Mkay? And being a religion journalist is my career. So, no, I’m not hear to “learn about Catholicism.” I already know about it.
ADS: Even if you cannot agree, I hope you can appreciate how things had been and are still done.
RA: Oh, I do.
peace,
RA
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sandusky
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The text is a comprehensive statement—no one has the ability to remove the believer from the Father. No one includes the believer, and don’t forget the added strength earlier in the verse: My Father is greater than all," even greater than the believer in His will to save. :extrahappy:
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adstrinity
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Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t mean you learned anything about it. I pray God will lead you to His Truth.
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adstrinity
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You are putting words in Word’s mouth. He says there is one unforgivable sin. You choose to interpret this differently than has been done in the past.
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Richard_Abanes
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ADS: Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t mean you learned anything about it. I pray God will lead you to His Truth.
RA:
Good answer. Not accurate or based on anything, but good escape answer. NOt really much else you could say, I guess. 
RA
RA:
Good answer. Not accurate or based on anything, but good escape answer. NOt really much else you could say, I guess. RA
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sandusky
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Interpreted differently by whom? Youm?
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adstrinity
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Not altogether untrue, either. Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t mean you knew what the Church taught. I do not fault you, though. Maybe that is why God lead you here.ADS: Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t mean you learned anything about it. I pray God will lead you to His Truth.
RA:
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Richard_Abanes
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ADS: Not altogether untrue, either.
RA: Fairly untrue, tbh, since I know what’s in my head and in my past, and you, my friend, do not. So, unless you can read minds/hearts (which only God can do), I suppose you’ll have to take my word for it until i say something that is inconsistent with Roman Catholicism, which until now, I don’t believe I’ve done.
Also, within Roman Catholicism, you have actually three (at least) forms of it.
RA: Fairly untrue, tbh, since I know what’s in my head and in my past, and you, my friend, do not. So, unless you can read minds/hearts (which only God can do), I suppose you’ll have to take my word for it until i say something that is inconsistent with Roman Catholicism, which until now, I don’t believe I’ve done.
Also, within Roman Catholicism, you have actually three (at least) forms of it.
- The OFFICIAL form, based on doctrinal statements from Rome.
- The PRACTICAL OUTWORKING of that in the lives of faithful Catholics, many of whom only have partial understandings of the official positions, which in turn leads to some doctrinal errors that stray from even the OFFICIAL positions.
- The SYNTHESIZED form of Roman Catholicism you see in various third world countries (usually third world) that takes OFFICIAL teachings and blends them with local pagan, witchcraft, magick customs (which the Roman hierarchy does nothing about, btw). This creates a Christian/Pagan hybrid that is rampant throughout the Roman Catholic world – not good.
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emeraldcoast
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RA,
I would appreciate hearing more about the SYNTHESIZED form of the RCC when you have time to share. Thank you!
God Bless!
I would appreciate hearing more about the SYNTHESIZED form of the RCC when you have time to share. Thank you!
God Bless!
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East_Anglican
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Richard_Abanes
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EMER: I would appreciate hearing more about the SYNTHESIZED form of the RCC when you have time to share. Thank you!
RA: yeah, I’ll be doing some writing on this for a chapter in a new book I’m finishing up. So, I’ll be getting into it at some length. I’ll post something after that. It’s both tragic and sad to see this merging of Christian concepts so pure and white with dark witchcraft/occultism. It’s also fascinating, in a way, to see how people can take these polar opposite world-views and merge them – yet the RC hierarchy allow it and does nothing (often with priests being involved). It happens mostly in South America, Africa, and other third world countries. I really don’t know how anyone could be in a church that allows that kind of evil and darkness to exist within its ranks.
RA.
RA: yeah, I’ll be doing some writing on this for a chapter in a new book I’m finishing up. So, I’ll be getting into it at some length. I’ll post something after that. It’s both tragic and sad to see this merging of Christian concepts so pure and white with dark witchcraft/occultism. It’s also fascinating, in a way, to see how people can take these polar opposite world-views and merge them – yet the RC hierarchy allow it and does nothing (often with priests being involved). It happens mostly in South America, Africa, and other third world countries. I really don’t know how anyone could be in a church that allows that kind of evil and darkness to exist within its ranks.
RA.
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Brennan_Doherty
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Because you don’t leave the Church Christ founded because of the dereliction of some of its members, just as Paul didn’t leave the Church when he found Peter behaving wrongly.
Instead we pray for and attempt to enact reform such as Saints like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena and others have done when they have seen members of the Church (including the hierarchy and even the Popes) not living up to the Church’s own teachings.
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Richard_Abanes
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Brenn: Because you don’t leave the Church Christ founded because of the dereliction of some of its members,
**RA: **Oh sure. Yeah. I understand that. You make sense. And I deal with that in my own church when I see problems or things with which I disagree. But there is a line, I suppose. That’s what I was saying. A line that shouldn’t be crossed – at least in my mind. That’s why I said, “I really don’t know how anyone could…” For me, personally, it’s way past the line.
Brenn: just as Paul didn’t leave the Church when he found Peter behaving wrongly.
RA: Well, personally, for me, I’m not sure the analogy follows. We are not talking about a single priest somewhere who gave a teaching that conflicted with an accurate interpretation of a biblical teaching. Also, that problem was during a period when everyone was trying to figure out the relationship between Judaic Law and the grace of the gospel.
Also, this is wholesale, community-wide, country-wide, full-blown blending of resoundingly occult/black magick rituals and views with RCC views/Mass. And it’s whole towns, villages, cities, and Diocese with multiple priests involved. Basically, this is clearly being tolerated by the hierarchy as far up as Rome. They know about it – they couldn’t NOT know about it. But do nothing by use of their “authority.” I’d actually like to ask a Roman Cardinal why, tbh.
Brenn: Instead we pray for and attempt to enact reform such as Saints like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena and others have done when they have seen members of the Church (including the hierarchy and even the Popes) not living up to the Church’s own teachings.
RA: I would LOVE to see this happen. Truly!!! I shall pray for that end.
RA
**RA: **Oh sure. Yeah. I understand that. You make sense. And I deal with that in my own church when I see problems or things with which I disagree. But there is a line, I suppose. That’s what I was saying. A line that shouldn’t be crossed – at least in my mind. That’s why I said, “I really don’t know how anyone could…” For me, personally, it’s way past the line.
Brenn: just as Paul didn’t leave the Church when he found Peter behaving wrongly.
RA: Well, personally, for me, I’m not sure the analogy follows. We are not talking about a single priest somewhere who gave a teaching that conflicted with an accurate interpretation of a biblical teaching. Also, that problem was during a period when everyone was trying to figure out the relationship between Judaic Law and the grace of the gospel.
Also, this is wholesale, community-wide, country-wide, full-blown blending of resoundingly occult/black magick rituals and views with RCC views/Mass. And it’s whole towns, villages, cities, and Diocese with multiple priests involved. Basically, this is clearly being tolerated by the hierarchy as far up as Rome. They know about it – they couldn’t NOT know about it. But do nothing by use of their “authority.” I’d actually like to ask a Roman Cardinal why, tbh.
Brenn: Instead we pray for and attempt to enact reform such as Saints like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena and others have done when they have seen members of the Church (including the hierarchy and even the Popes) not living up to the Church’s own teachings.
RA: I would LOVE to see this happen. Truly!!! I shall pray for that end.
RA
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Brennan_Doherty
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Hi Richard,Brenn: Because you don’t leave the Church Christ founded because of the dereliction of some of its members,
**RA: **Oh sure. Yeah. I understand that. You make sense. And I deal with that in my own church when I see problems or things with which I disagree. But there is a line, I suppose. That’s what I was saying. A line that shouldn’t be crossed – at least in my mind. That’s why I said, “I really don’t know how anyone could…” For me, personally, it’s way past the line.
Brenn: just as Paul didn’t leave the Church when he found Peter behaving wrongly.
RA: Well, personally, for me, I’m not sure the analogy follows. We are not talking about a single priest somewhere who gave a teaching that conflicted with an accurate interpretation of a biblical teaching. Also, that problem was during a period when everyone was trying to figure out the relationship between Judaic Law and the grace of the gospel.
Also, this is wholesale, community-wide, country-wide, full-blown blending of resoundingly occult/black magick rituals and views with RCC views/Mass. And it’s whole towns, villages, cities, and Diocese with multiple priests involved. Basically, this is clearly being tolerated by the hierarchy as far up as Rome. They know about it – they couldn’t NOT know about it. But do nothing by use of their “authority.” I’d actually like to ask a Roman Cardinal why, tbh.
Brenn: Instead we pray for and attempt to enact reform such as Saints like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena and others have done when they have seen members of the Church (including the hierarchy and even the Popes) not living up to the Church’s own teachings.
RA: I would LOVE to see this happen. Truly!!! I shall pray for that end.
RA
Thanks for your response. I look forward to reading the chapter that details this in your upcoming book. I myself have been to Ireland and as a Protestant our church went on a mission trip to South America for a bit, thus I don’t have much first hand experience with South America and even less with Africa, though I have heard of things like the Mexican Day of the Dead. While the faith is incarnational, and I have no problem with asking saints for their prayers, I do think superstition is something to be avoided (and some Catholics have written against it).
I won’t be surprised at all if there are practices of Catholics which should not be tolerated and in general are, just as I was extremely sorry to learn of the sex abuse scandal and the moving around of predatory priests yet I wasn’t extremely surprised. For me, as you mentioned in a previous post, where the rubber meets the road are the official teachings of any church. So if the Church officially taught that people ought to engage occult practices that would be a big problem, to say the least.
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steve_b
Guest
Let’s look at the passage being discussed, that started with RA.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4326317&postcount=147
Rm 8:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36* As it is written, “For thy sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37* No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This usually gets paraphrased by Protestants to nothing can seperate us from God.
Question:
Sin is not mentioned anywhere in that passage from Romans… All kinds of things situations and entities, are mentioned but not sin. …not a single sin was mentioned…Why?
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sandusky
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steve b:
We who believe their gospel have a Savior Who truly saves us from sin:**Acts 10:43
“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”**(cf Mt 26:28; Mk 1:4; Lk 3:3; 24:47; Acts 5:31; 13:38; 26:18; Col 1:14).
Because the apostles, and those who believe their gospel, understand the sacrifice of Christ to be greater than all their sins.
We who believe their gospel have a Savior Who truly saves us from sin:**Acts 10:43
“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”**(cf Mt 26:28; Mk 1:4; Lk 3:3; 24:47; Acts 5:31; 13:38; 26:18; Col 1:14).
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