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I'm getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and the saints!
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Leeann
Guest
I reiterate my opening comment and the “question” that has still not be answered by anyone so far…they have opted to focus in and talk about “love” and the meaning of “love” …they have responded by asking me all sorts of “other questions”…perhaps once I get a clear response to my initial posting and question, I will concentrate on and answer your own question Thing.
What say you?
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Hi Manny,
I am going to seem a little blunt here… But here goes…
While you are tired of hearing SOME protestants say that catholics worship Mary I am SO very much tired of hearing the whining from catholics about how they are so misunderstood. I am sorry, but this just has to stop.
Who cares? God has commanded that we don’t bear false witness against our neighbors, right? So, you tell them you don’t worship Mary and move on. The tales or lies they tell will be between them and God. There is no sense in getting worked up about it. Or to keep hammering the anger against it. The only thing that comes from being angry about it is just that, you’re angry about something you can’t change. There are ALWAYS going to be SOME protestants who feel and think this way. Kick the dust from your heals and focus on worshipping and following Christ and not on what those around you are saying. God will deal with them in His time.
Protestants could easily go around whining about how SOME catholics say they are devil worshippers and follow Satan (it has even been said on this board). I know who I worship and follow, it is between them and God Almighty what they choose to say.
I say, let it go. This dead horse has been beaten so many times that it is just powder in the dust. (I know, gross right?
)
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Peter_J
Guest
A little side note: we are not to direct adoration to anyone but God.
“Adoration” means worship. It does not mean veneration or hyper-dulia.
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Thing
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robert_pruden
Guest
I Would Not Dwell To Much On What Other Faiths
Think Of Us On This Issue.we Know The Truth.when
Man Makes A Statue Of Say A Great Baseball
Player We See It And Remember Him For His Achievments And For What Kind Of Person They Were Not To Idolize Them But To Honor And Remember Them For Thier Works In Life.this Is The
Same For Christ On The Cross And For Mary And The Saints,we As Catholics Pray And Honor The
Person Not The Cross Or A Statue Itself But For
What It Stands For,for Others To Think We Pray To
The Wooden Or Whatever It Is Made Of Figure Be It
A Statue Or Picture Is Rediculous.this Only Shows
Thier Short Site Of Fellow Christians And Rather
Than Learn To Understand The True Meaning Some
Prefer To Lash Out With Thier Tongues.this Shallow Attitude Only Separates Gods Children
From Each Other Instead Of Bringing Us Together.
We All Need To Listen More Before We Can Speak
With Understanding Unless One Likes The Taste Of
His Foot.
Think Of Us On This Issue.we Know The Truth.when
Man Makes A Statue Of Say A Great Baseball
Player We See It And Remember Him For His Achievments And For What Kind Of Person They Were Not To Idolize Them But To Honor And Remember Them For Thier Works In Life.this Is The
Same For Christ On The Cross And For Mary And The Saints,we As Catholics Pray And Honor The
Person Not The Cross Or A Statue Itself But For
What It Stands For,for Others To Think We Pray To
The Wooden Or Whatever It Is Made Of Figure Be It
A Statue Or Picture Is Rediculous.this Only Shows
Thier Short Site Of Fellow Christians And Rather
Than Learn To Understand The True Meaning Some
Prefer To Lash Out With Thier Tongues.this Shallow Attitude Only Separates Gods Children
From Each Other Instead Of Bringing Us Together.
We All Need To Listen More Before We Can Speak
With Understanding Unless One Likes The Taste Of
His Foot.
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RobHom
Guest
I am not “thing”, but I will answer your question as best as I can, if you are referring to where you posted prayers from catholic.org.
I do believe that you are somewhat “biased” in your “reading” and “discerning”, but that is to be expected. You stopped at prayer #3 and skipped #4 & #5…
Had you bothered to read #5 you might look at things just a little different. Though I’m not sure that you can. Consider that I am not saying anything rudely or snidely. I am merely being honest. I am a Catholic, you are not. It is a matter of understandings and perspectives. That is fact. Your understanding and perspective regarding Mary is not the same as ours, and may never be. Here is prayer #5, read it fully…
*Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary #5
O Immaculate Heart of Mary,
Queen of Heaven and Earth,
and tender Mother of men,
in accordance with Thy ardent wish made known at Fatima,
I consecrate to Thy Immaculate Heart myself,
my brethren,
my country and the whole human race.
Reign over us,
Most Holy Mother of God,
and teach us how to make the Heart of Thy Son,
Our Lord Jesus Christ reign
and triumph in us even as It has reigned
and triumphed in Thee.
Reign over us,
Most Blessed Virgin,
that we may be Thine in prosperity
and in adversity,
in joy and in sorrow,
in health and in sickness,
in life and in death.
O most compassionate Heart of Mary,
Queen of Heaven,
watch over our minds and hearts
and preserve them from the impurity
which Thou didst lament so sorrowfully at Fatima.
Assist us in imitating You in all things,
especially purity.
Help us to call down upon our country
and upon the whole world the peace of God
in justice and charity.
Therefore, Most Gracious Virgin and Mother,
I hereby promise to imitate Thy virtues
by the practice of a true Christian life
without regard to human respect.
I resolve to receive Holy Communion regularly
and to offer to Thee five decades of the Rosary each day,
together with my sacrifices,
in the spirit of reparation and penance.
Amen.
*
Did you get the message?
Perhaps if you set aside your preconceived notions and prejudices…and took some time to read up on the CATHOLIC perspective with an open mind… you might be able to understand.
To answer your question: CATHOLICS DO NOT WORSHIP MARY!! WE WORSHIP GOD!!
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George_C
Guest
Patrick, my first RCIA class is tomorrow morning.
9:00 AM!
9:00 AM!
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Leeann
Guest
Oh okay Peter J - thank you for that, I wasn’t aware of that.
I put the word “adoration” in with “veneration” and “hyper dulia”, as this is what some other Catholics have used themselves to distinguish from the “worship” Mary…so there you go Thing - I guess if you use this interpretation given for the word “adoration”, it would appear that some Catholics do indeed worship Mary.
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hays1122
Guest
The real reason Catholics pray the rosary is because Mary herself made the request more then once.
I visited indefenseofthecross.com
There is a list of ten cases of people who saw Mary.Sometimes thousands of people saw Mary according to the information given.
This is a quote from just one of these visions:
vision: The Virgin of Revelation-1947- appeared to
Bruno Cornacchiola saw the virgin Mary.
quote:
"At that point, the Virgin of the Revelation taught him the sure means of salvation, for him and for and all mankind,
which is prayer, and in particular the daily
recitation of the Holy Rosary. "Pray much
and recite the Rosary for the conversion of sinners,
of unbelievers and of all Christians.
" As a reward to those souls who would listen to
her message of prayer for the salvation of mankind,
the Virgin promised great favors from Heaven.
“In this place of sin I shall perform wonderful
miracles for the conversion of unbelievers.”
Why don’t Catholics point out these miracles so we can understand why it’s so important for “daily recitation of the Holy Rosary”?
I visited indefenseofthecross.com
There is a list of ten cases of people who saw Mary.Sometimes thousands of people saw Mary according to the information given.
This is a quote from just one of these visions:
vision: The Virgin of Revelation-1947- appeared to
Bruno Cornacchiola saw the virgin Mary.
quote:
"At that point, the Virgin of the Revelation taught him the sure means of salvation, for him and for and all mankind,
which is prayer, and in particular the daily
recitation of the Holy Rosary. "Pray much
and recite the Rosary for the conversion of sinners,
of unbelievers and of all Christians.
" As a reward to those souls who would listen to
her message of prayer for the salvation of mankind,
the Virgin promised great favors from Heaven.
“In this place of sin I shall perform wonderful
miracles for the conversion of unbelievers.”
Why don’t Catholics point out these miracles so we can understand why it’s so important for “daily recitation of the Holy Rosary”?
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Usagi
Guest
Those are instances of private revelation. Often the Church has judged them as containing nothing against the faith, but they are not binding on anyone, not even a Catholic.
We are not required to believe that Mary appeared in those places, or to do anything she supposedly said. Of course, many of us do take on one or more devotions that come from an approved private revelation.
Some Catholics may pray the Rosary daily because of the promises given in those apparitions, but that’s hardly “the real reason” the Rosary is prayed.
As you have seen, there are sites and groups that promote these various apparitions and devotions. As to why Catholics in general don’t … well, those are optional add-ons at best. It’s best to start with the core of the faith and then move out from there.
Usagi
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Leeann
Guest
With regards to not posting #4 and #5 - it wasn’t based on any “biase” - they simply did not address the “topic” of this thread…as to why some Protestants believe that Catholics worship Mary. I only posted 2 - I stopped short of posting other prayers that also point in the direction of “worship” towards Mary.
Whether it is “one” prayer or thirty, makes no difference,
it doesn’t take much to contaminate or misdirect people’s faith.
Douay Rheims online bible
Galatians 5 :V9
**9 ** **A little leaven corrupteth the whole lump. **
I am still interested in what your thoughts are with regards to the prayer that I posted.
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hays1122
Guest
I can understand the “not required” part,but why wouldn’t you believe?
Some of the people who saw these visions were tested and looked at by doctors. During the Medjugorje vision doctors write,I quote “It is also interesting to note that during the experiments, one of the things being monitored was brain activity. Most of us are able to use around 15% of our brain during normal activities. It is facinating to note that at the moment when Our Lady appears, the visionaries brain activity jumps to 100% and stays at this level until Our Lady leaves.”
There is so much to read on this. I can’t hardly cover everything.
And the Catholic church built churches for Mary on the spot where the vision occured. I can’t believe that the Catholic church would build these beautiful churches on something that may or may not be true.
Some of these places are there for you or I to go visit. I wish I could afford to travel to see them for myself. Like Catherine’s body encased in glass.
She’s been dead along time and they say her body looks as if she just went to sleep yesterday.
And it isn’t because she was embalmed in some special way.
I have a friend,non catholic,who traveled to Fatima.
She was very impressed by what she saw.
I still think that more people should hear about these visions. They are what make the Catholic church what it is. I mean now I understand why they say the rosary and say she is the Daughter of God,mother of God’s son and spouse of the Holy Spirit. Because that’s what she herself said when she appeared.
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Peter_J
Guest
hays,
I’d like to second everything usagi just said.
I’d like to second everything usagi just said.
I wouldn’t have anything against more people hearing about these visions, but they are certainly not “what make the Catholic church what it is”.
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Peter_J
Guest
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RobHom
Guest
I have no problem with any of it, then again…
I am a Catholic and I understand the subject at hand. One prayer or 1,000,000 it makes no difference when you split things away and try to use them out of context. You are operating with a “preconceived bias” or prejudice. That’s your way… But in the Catholic “way” there is no “misdirecting or contamination of people’s faith”. Catholics are not “buffoons”… and unless you have learned about the Catholic Religion and its beliefs…you really should refrain from being “judgemental”. Did not Christ Himself say: Judge not lest ye be judged?Also, I find it interesting that you took a snippet of scripture and used it entirely out of context. Wasn’t Paul talking about “circumcision” and what not, then moving on and talking about all kinds of evil stuff? I think your out of context example proves your entire point… You shouldn’t do things like you do, it makes you look as though you are attempting to mislead people and bearing false witness…yes?
Non-Catholics “think, believe or surmise” that Catholics worship Mary and whoever else on the planet y’all think we worship…because you listen to people who are wrong to begin with. They were taught falsehoods by others who were wrong. Any “non-Catholic” who believes, thinks or surmises that we worship Mary or the saints…is entirely in error. It would seem that the error is compounded by non-Catholics being wholly unable to accept and grasp the truth when it is handed free of charge to them by Catholic after Catholic after Catholic after Catholic, etc…
I think were I you and other “non-Catholics”…I would be more concerned about how y’all have been misled and astray and your beliefs contaminated by many for the past 500 years… Seriously… were I in your shoes… I would be greatly concerned about that.
I answered your questions, move on.
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RobHom
Guest
Peter, I disagree with you. Here is Websters definition of adoration:
*Main Entry:
ad·o·ra·tion Listen to the pronunciation of adoration
Pronunciation:
\ˌa-də-ˈrā-shən\
Function:
noun
Date:
15th century
: the act of adoring : the state of being adored*
There is absolutely nothing in that definition to mean or even imply that adoration means worship.
I “adore” my wife, but I do not worship her, I feel the same about my grandchildren, but I do not worship them. Please stick to conventional definitions or support your claims. Your defining adoration as worship is what confuses “n-C’s”.
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RobHom
Guest
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Peter_J
Guest
Agreed.
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Peter_J
Guest
To be honest, it isn’t a point I’m particularly enthusiastic about arguing – theoretically, the usage of “adore” could change in the future such that we would speak of “adoring Mary”. (We could start about that, if you’d like.)
But for what it’s worth, I’ll give you a few quotes:
“Catholics do not worship or adore Mary the Mother of God and the saints. Rather, we honor and praise Mary and the saints because of their great love and faithfulness to God.”
“God alone, the Supreme, Infinite Being, must be adored. To adore any creature, however exalted, would be to commit idolatry. It is simply absurd and also grossly unfair to say that Catholics adore Mary.”
- from This Rock
(Please note that I’m quoting these on a “for what it’s worth” basis. I make no claim that these are authoritative.)
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