I'm getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and the saints!

[guanophore]

Where or where in Scripture (and not the CCC) does it EVER describe, the praying to anyone or anything else other than to the Holy One, blessed be He, as anything other than idolatry or blasphemy?! You won’t find it because prayers offered to anyone other than God are ALWAYS considered blasphemous and idolatrous.

Well, we read it differently.

 Does the Catholic church worship Mary and/or the saints?

No.

Well, it can protest all it wants to that it doesn't, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it's a duck. I hear most Catholics (and I'm around a lot of them) offering more thanks to Mary and prayers to saints rather than to the Lord. You see more statues (ick) of Mary and saints than of Jesus (as if anyone really knows what these people looked like anyway).

Do you have any pictures of your loved ones/family members?

Someone once said let me take a look at your checkbook register and I'll tell you who your god is. I say notice how many prayers you direct to Mary and/or saints and I'll tell you who you really worship despite what your prostestations and vocabulary (ie: veneration vs. adoration) say. Those are just words, nomenclature, to justify idolatry and spiritual adultery.

Such a statement demonstrates a very narrow experience and understanding of the nature of prayer.

For instance, I talked to a friend of mine recently who is a Catholic, when I told her that I had prayed to God to show me where something I had lost of hers that was of great sentimental value to her. I told her that God literally gave me a vision of where it was and it was exactly there when I looked. I gave thanks to God.

Good for you!

Her response: "My mother always prayed to St. Anthony since he's the patron saint of lost items."

My response: “Well, I go straight to his boss because the Bible says I can in Christ.”

I pray to St, Anthony too, and he helps me a lot. However, this is not necessary. I ask many people here on earth to help me out every day too. It does not mean I think they are God.

God has decided to work through people. He is glorfied in His saints.

 

[Leeann]

**Originally Posted by Leeann **
The only one, stable, one true thing is the promise that God made to us through Jesus Christ and His blood sacrifice on the cross.

Response guanophore:
Everyone has the freedom to limit their access and reception to the truth. If this is all you are able to embrace, God bless you.

**It’s all the truth I need! Sufficient and whole! **

**Originally Posted by Leeann: **
I believe,that is what the Apostles preached and that was the centre of their commission.

Response guanophore:
Indeed, and which is why they warned us not to receive a “different” gospel, such as that promulgated at the Reformation.

Perhaps the true and faithful believers were the ones that recognized a “false gospel” being “developed”…a new theology being “created” within the Catholic church and remembered what had been warned about in Galatians…

Galatians Ch1:

6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.[10] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
[11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
[12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Their gospel,** Jesus’ **gospel was about Him and His sacrifice.
The things necessary for our salvation.
No mention made of Mary at all - or any “necessity” of believing in any “theology” with regards to her role in the plan of salvation - in the “gospel” as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

Mark Ch1:

[14] Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
[15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

The gospel was a “complete message” when they preached and taught it - sufficient and whole - nothing is to be added or blended into it.

 

[RobGentner]

hays:

**

Hi hays! :tiphat:
I have been a Catholic for 64 years. If I was a member of any other denomination, God forbid,:bigyikes: and I found out by reading any history book that the original church was founded by Jesus over 2,000 years ago.and my church wasn’t that church. :crying: I would want to go to the original church.
I would read about why over 33,000 denominations turned from the true church. What could cause so many different choices?
I would learn about my present church from all sources. If I found that my religion was only 500, 200, 35 or whatever years old and the only church that can actually trace itself back “by their own books **and teachings” is the Catholic Church. I should naturally realize that They were the genuine church. My church would have to be a counterfeit, or imitation church. What else could it be? A new improved, church? Yea right! with our laws and books echoing everything the real church said except but what we don’t like! I would look into the tradition of my churches traditions and probably learn we “borrowed” many of them from the Mother Church. :yup:

The Catholic church draws all its traditions from the Hebrew religion. And our Head, a man called Jesus came to fullfil the prophercies and he did so. If Jesus didn’t establish the catholic church we would all have to belong to the Jewish faith to be in God’s real church! They were first we are second, everyone else fell away from God’s wishes. Now who would want Christians to fall away from God? It isn’t hard.He is the Devil! I find it amusing in a retching vomit-inducing way that Protestants are blinded to the real faith.

May God bless all who read the above and realize it was written entirely with christian love for all my heretic brethern who love our lord and savior, but may not enjoy eternity with Him, His Mother and all the Saints and angels due to their stubborness in accepting the Truth. How very sad!:bighanky:

 

[Cinette]

I can tell you, from bitter bitter experience, this is simply not true. It is one of the greatest deceits ever. I know.

Protestants also didn’t believe in artificial contraception until the 1930s. The CC has never compromised and has stood firm.

Contraception has led to promiscuity - sexual revolution. Sex is now recreation and not the domain of marriage. The family has been severely compromised.

We now also see women displaying their private parts in public blatently. We see this in film - everywhere.

Say what you like contraception has led to abortion. Some people use abortion as a form of contraception. One thing leads to another and another. Infanticide is the latest danger looming. God only know where all this will end.

Do I sound like an old Grandmother? Well I am one!

 

[sandusky]

Protestants also didn’t believe in artificial contraception until the 1930s. The CC has never compromised and has stood firm.

Contraception has led to promiscuity - sexual revolution. Sex is now recreation and not the domain of marriage. The family has been severely compromised.

We now also see women displaying their private parts in public blatently. We see this in film - everywhere.

Say what you like contraception has led to abortion. Some people use abortion as a form of contraception. Then on thing leads to another and another. Infanticide is the latest danger looming. God only know where all this will end.

Do I sound like an old Grandmother? Well I am one!

Actually, it’s sin that leads to that behavior; you’re naive if you think that people weren’t having sex outside of marriage until the “invention” of artificial contraceptives—there’s nothing new under the sun.

 

[Ag_not]

it was written entirely with christian love for all my heretic brethern…

Hey Rob, I can’t that letter of invitation from the Council of Inter Faith Dialogue arriving anytime soon.

 

[Cinette]

Actually, it’s sin that leads to that behavior; you’re naive if you think that people weren’t having sex outside of marriage until the “invention” of artificial contraceptives—there’s nothing new under the sun.

You are not telling me anything new - of course there has always been sex outside of marriage but not on such a scale.

There were a lot more virgins going up to the altar in those days. There were not so many divorces.

O c’mon do I have to spell it out? You don’t KNOW these things? You think that our modern society is OK I suppose?

:nope: :tsktsk:

 

[sandusky]

You are not telling me anything new - of course there has always been sex outside of marriage but not on such a scale.

There were a lot more virgins going up to the altar in those days. There were not so many divorces.

O c’mon do I have to spell it out? You don’t KNOW these things? You think that our modern society is OK I suppose?

:nope: :tsktsk:

You’re naive, and you’re Catholic, and you’ll argue this because you have nothing better to do.

 

[johnnydigit]

lol @ topic. protestants have been teaching their children this whopper of a misconception for centuries (5 to be exact). it’s about as laughable as “wait, Catholics are Christian?”

step 1.
what i have found that it is easy to make them realize that you cannot judge if someone is worshiping something merely by what you see them doing. kneeling, standing, sitting, looking… does not mean they are worshiping whatever is in front of them. the only way is to get inside their head and see what they are thinking, and only God can do that.
you can come up with any similar scenario, say like if a protestant is talking to God in their room with a picture of their favorite Bible hero on the wall, does that mean they’re worshiping them? if reading the Bible by a tree, are you worshiping the tree? reading the Bible at a table in front of a picture of Blessed Mary? kneeling in front of a picture of Blessed Mary? no matter how much someone may not like what they see and think it is “too much”, you can’t assume. they are all praying to God, not the object.

step 2.
next up, “well, they’re dead and can’t hear you anyways.” this, imo, is the root of the problem. protestants don’t believe the Saints can hear us. the first point is simple logic they will admit to, but this proving they can hear us takes further citing from Scripture and explaining of the communion of saints to show them the truth.
scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

past this and there’s pretty much nothing you can do. they are incapable of seeing plain logic. there is usually an emotional hurdle that won’t allow them to use rationalization… hurt by the Church, by family, etc.

 

[guanophore]

By singing hymns of praise to Mary and using such titles of praise to her name. The following is from post # 699. Its only a partial list:

“Mediatrix
Mediatrix and Conciliatrix
Mediatrix of All Grace
Mediatrix of Salvation
Mediatrix of the Mediator
Minister of Life
Mirror of Justice
More Beautiful Than Beauty
More Glorious Than Paradise
More Gracious Than Grace
More Holy Than the Cherubim, the Seraphim, and the Entire Angelic Hosts
Morning Star
Most Venerable
Mother Most Admirable
Mother Most Amiable
Mother Most Pure”

These are the kinds of things that should be said only of God and never of a created being.

If you feel so strongly about that, it would be a good idea not to use this hymn or a prayer like it.

Good point. However only God is worthy of these kinds of titles and never of a created being.

Not necessary. Many of these titles are only applicable to God and not man.

Those titles are making specific statements about Mary that are never said of her in Scripture. Secondly, these kinds of titles should only be spoken of God.

This is your judgement, and personal opinion, and you are certainly welcome to it. What is it inside of you that prevents you from tolerating others who think/believe differently?

Why do you feel such a strong need to make others over into the image of what you feel and believe is right for yourself?

You come to a Catholic board and chastize Catholics because they do not believe as you do.

 

[RobGentner]

**It’s all the truth I need! Sufficient and whole! **

**None are as blind as those that refuse to see! Yup! **

Perhaps the true and faithful believers were the ones that recognized a “false gospel” being “developed”…a new theology being “created” within the Catholic church and remembered what had been warned about in Galatians.

**But probably they weren’t! The devil tried to tempt Christ Himself, He tempted Jesus’ Church and the weak followed him! **

Galatians Ch1:

6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
That message was meant for King James wasn’t it? Or Luther? One, or maybe both of them?

[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

**Great Idea, I hereby accuse all protastant religions! Thanks! **
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.[10] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.**AMEN! **
[11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
[12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Their gospel,** Jesus’ gospel was about Him and His sacrifice.
The things necessary for our salvation.
No mention made of Mary at all - or any “necessity” of believing in any “theology” with regards to her role in the plan of salvation - in the “gospel” as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
Mark Ch1:
**
No mention of a lot of things you believe. They are made up and you pick and choice what our church teaches to believe.
We are the true church and Jesus is our head. We follow the true teaching. To say otherwise is to Call jesus a liar, I would be very careful doing that! How arrogantyoiu are to attempt to use our books to attack us! Write your own! Quit interpreting our books wrong! Jesus was cautioning against false teaching and along comes your religion. Hmmmm???
[14] Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
[15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
**Amen, Amen I say unto you unless you repent you shall not receive eternal life! **
The gospel was a “complete message” when they preached and taught it - sufficient and whole - nothing is to be added or blended into it. ** **

Sorry nothing in the Bible says that it is the “complete message” that is written in your head! It does mention false prophets making their own churches. In fact we have miles of other books and oral tradition that proves you wrong!

God Bless! May the Blessed Mother ask her Son to open your eyes to the real faith.

 

[Leeann]

**RobGentner:**May God bless all who read the above and realize it was written entirely with christian love for all my heretic brethern who love our lord and savior, but may not enjoy eternity with Him, His Mother and all the Saints and angels due to their stubborness in accepting the Truth. How very sad!:bighanky:

Don’t be sad Rob! :console:
(between you and me…what they say isn’t true…it’s just “necessary”…to keep their myths going…)

I’ll post some scripture that me and others of your “heretic brethren” gain great comfort from in times of need.

Philippians Ch4

4] Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
[5] Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
[6] Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 

[Cinette]

You’re naive, and you’re Catholic, and you’ll argue this because you have nothing better to do.

I won’t argue this precisely because I have much better things to do.

I won’t call you names, you do a much better job all by yourself! :tsktsk:

 

[sandusky]

I won’t argue this precisely because I have much better things to do.

There’s nothing to argue; you’re naive with respect to this.

 

[RobGentner]

If you feel so strongly about that, it would be a good idea not to use this hymn or a prayer like it.

**Hi Guan :tiphat: **

This is your judgement, and personal opinion, and you are certainly welcome to it. What is it inside of you that prevents you from tolerating others who think/believe differently?

** Come on! justasking4 is just playing!:dancing: His complete name is Justasking4The100thTime! :extrahappy: All of his friends just call him JA4 .

Hey JA4 remember to stick your opinions where you can’t loss them! we all know how important they are! :whacky: **

Why do you feel such a strong need to make others over into the image of what you feel and believe is right for yourself?

**Honestly, JA4 is just playing. No one could be that insistent and be serious!:whackadoo: **

You come to a Catholic board and chastize Catholics because they do not believe as you do.

**Yea, JA4 is a cute little heretic isn’t he??!

The Blessed Mother Mary Loves you JA4! And so do all us real christians!

God Bless**

 

[RobGentner]

I won’t argue this precisely because I have much better things to do.

I won’t call you names, you do a much better job all by yourself

**Hi Cinette :tiphat:
Sorry, I must agree with sandusky “You’re naive, and you’re Catholic”
I am so happy to know you! :yup:

However you said “I won’t argue this precisely because I have much better things to do.”

That is wrong!. :tsktsk: We must defend our faith agenst demonic attacks! Remember ~ “But in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.” - 1 Peter 3:15

Be prepared to defend the hope within you. Remember “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8 He got them don’t let him get you also!

As you know I am shy and have a particular personality that makes it so hard for me to speak out and explain how sad I am about our brethern being under the control of the devil and corrupting our holy scripture. It makes me so sad!
I want to just hold and comfort the poor lost heretics that come here seeking forgiveness for their ignorance of our religion.

Please make sure you treat them wthl all the kindness they deserve. To treat them with less respect than they deserve would not be Christian. That is why I make sure I treat them just like Jesus would. Why if they were in a temple changing money Jesus would be the first to run over to talk to them and explain His true feelings towards them and their little games!:dancing:

So be nice to them and take the time necessary, remember we have to try and save their condemned souls. Think of what Jesus said about them: “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8:44

Remember be nice! They deserve all our love !

God Bless**

 

[Cinette]

**Hi Cinette :tiphat:
Sorry, I must agree with sandusky “You’re naive, and you’re Catholic”
I am so happy to know you! :yup:

However you said “I won’t argue this precisely because I have much better things to do.”

That is wrong!. :tsktsk: We must defend our faith agenst demonic attacks! Remember ~ “But in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.” - 1 Peter 3:15

Be prepared to defend the hope within you. The devil runs about like a ds

As you know I am shy and have a particular personality that makes it so hard for me to speak our and explain about being under the control of the devil and corrupting holy scripture. I want to hold and confort the poor lost heretics that come here seeking forgiveness for their ingorance of our religion. Please make sure you trewat them will all the kindness they deserve To treat them with less respect than they deserve would not be Christian. That is why I make sure I treat them just like Jesus would. Why if they were in a temple changing money Jesus would be the first to run over to talk to them and explain His true feelings towards them and their little games!:dancing:

So be nice to them and take the time necessary, remember we have to try and save their condemned souls. remember what Jesus said about them: “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8:44

Remember be nice!
God Bless**

Rob do you realise that this thread has almost 800 postings! How many times must we say the same thing!

I suggested that all Christians get together and fight the onslaught of the devil which is pernicious and dangerous and invading our society and our children are at risk. There are plenty of things we Christians can do TOGETHER to boost and strength the moral fibre of society. There needs to be a MORAL REGENERATION OF SOCIETY. Unity is strength you know and it is about time we Christians defended the Faith against the secular society.

THAT would be a more fruitful exercise instead of playing games on this thread like children.

 

[Leeann]

Originally Posted by Leeann
It’s all the truth I need! Sufficient and whole!

Response RobGentner:
None are as blind as those that refuse to see! Yup!

Do you need any more “truth” than what I was referring too for your salvation…the blood sacrifice of Jesus???

Originally Posted by Leeann:
Perhaps the true and faithful believers were the ones that recognized a “false gospel” being “developed”…a new theology being “created” within the Catholic church and remembered what had been warned about in Galatians.

Response RobGentner:
But probably they weren’t! The devil tried to tempt Christ Himself, He tempted Jesus’ Church and the weak followed him!

But probably they didn’t! He called them “out of her” and they heard His voice, recognized it and followed!

Galatians Ch1:

6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
RobGentner:
That message was meant for King James wasn’t it? Or Luther? One, or maybe both of them?
As you said above: None are as blind, as those who refuse to see.

[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
RobGentner:
Great Idea, I hereby accuse all protastant religions! Thanks!
Your welcome! It’s nice to see that you have a hobby.

[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
[10] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.AMEN!and HALLELUAI !!!
[11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
[12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Their gospel, Jesus’ gospel was about Him and His sacrifice.
The things necessary for our salvation.
No mention made of Mary at all - or any “necessity” of believing in any “theology” with regards to her role in the plan of salvation - in the “gospel” as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

Mark Ch1:
Rob Gentner:
No mention of a lot of thigs you might believe also. You pick and choice what to believe. We follow the true church and Jesus’ teaching. How Arrogant to use our books to attack us! Write your own! Quit interpreting our books wrong!
Well here’s the “truth” Rob - they’re not your books! They’re God’s. Now who’s the “arrogant” one(s)???

[14] Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
[15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
RobGentner:
Amen, Amen I say unto you unless you repent you shall not receive eternal life!
It’s okay Rob…take a deep breath…I have repented and believe the gospel, the pure, clean, unadulterated gospel that Jesus and the Apostles taught :yup:

The gospel was a “complete message” when they preached and taught it - sufficient and whole - nothing is to be added or blended into it.
RobGentner:
Sorry nothing in the Bible says that it is the “complete message” that is written in your head! . It does mention false prophets making their own churches. In fact we have miles of other books and oral tradition that proves you wrong!
Rob - think for a minute - Jesus himself said…"repent and believe the gospel"…was He telling them to believe in an “unfinished gospel”??? The “miles” of other books and oral tradition you have only prove the amount of heresies that have crept in.
RobGentner:
God Bless! May the Blessed Mother ask her Son to open your eyes to the real faith.
What “faith” would that be…in the “Church” and what it teaches…or in HIM.

 

[RobGentner]

**
Hi Johnny :tiphat:

Not much to say. You are attempting to talk logic to a bunch of heretics. Good luck with that!

Remember what Jesus said: “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8:44

God Bless!**

 

[Leeann]

…past this and there’s pretty much nothing you can do. they are incapable of seeing plain logic. there is usually an emotional hurdle that won’t allow them to use rationalization… hurt by the Church, by family, etc.

Or perhaps it’s just that they know a false religion when they see it!