I'm getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and the saints!

[Singinbeauty]

Did you ever think about Jesus also being a “dead” guy? He has his body in heaven but he died here.

Yes, but He also ROSE from the dead HERE. He may have died for 3 days but how wonderful! He’s ALIVE… Jesus ain’t no ‘dead guy’…

Do you find evidence of the apostles or anyone for that matter praying to Moses or Abraham from here on earth? The only thing I have seen is every person in the bible prays to God and God alone.

 

[LilyM]

Yes, but He also ROSE from the dead HERE. He may have died for 3 days but how wonderful! He’s ALIVE… Jesus ain’t no ‘dead guy’…

Do you find evidence of the apostles or anyone for that matter praying to Moses or Abraham from here on earth? The only thing I have seen is every person in the bible prays to God and God alone.

JESUS!!! At the transfiguration - He prayed to Elijah (possibly dead) and Moses (definitely dead) from earth.

‘Hang on’, you’ll say, ‘He just talked with them’. For sure He did. And isn’t prayer, at its heart of hearts, simply talking - either to God or to the saints on earth or those in heaven?

 

[Cinette]

Cinette…I’m not searching…I’m quite confident and content right where I am and in what I am…a child of God.

Leeann we can never be “content” because conversion is an ongoing process that is with us always until we die – we hunger and thirst and can never be satisfied in this life. “Our hearts were made for you O Lord and will not rest until they rest in thee (I am paraphrasing here) St Augustine. There is always more - every time we re-read the Bible we keep discovering more.

**And while I am intense with my objections, I am not outraged. I don’t really think you do understand my objections as is evident in your postings. I am not aware of any “unfair things” that Jesus Himself said…perhaps you could enlighten me on that. **

What about the labourers who worked all day for the same wage as those who worked just one hour?
Luke 9:57-62 “………….let the dead bury the dead…………”
In Matthew 10:34 – “I did not come to bring peace but a sword………………” (sound a bit like Islam!!)
Then directly following that Jesus said “….a man will be against his Father……” (seems to go against the 4th commandment)
I understand that one must look at the context and the culture – that if we compare it to our culture and our mode of expression it may appear harsh and that what Jesus actually meant was not exactly as it is quoted in the bible.

Just one more thing - Jesus called his Mother “Woman” at Cana and at the foot of the cross come to mind. To us this might sound terrible - if I addressed my Mother as Woman she would not like it one bit. But it is not meant in the way we would understand it in our time and culture. I understand that. Gosh how did we get on this? Anyway…

I would like to say more but have to pack. We are leaving tomorrow morning for a week’s holiday at the coast!

I am pleased you love and honour Mary also - just not the same way as we do.

 

[Singinbeauty]

JESUS!!! At the transfiguration - He prayed to Elijah (possibly dead) and Moses (definitely dead) from earth.

‘Hang on’, you’ll say, ‘He just talked with them’. For sure He did. And isn’t prayer, at its heart of hearts, simply talking - either to God or to the saints on earth or those in heaven?

That doesn’t cut it, they were physically there - right before Him. They weren’t holograms or videos from Heaven. When you pray to Mary, she is not physically there right before you. She is in Heaven.

To Pray:
transitive verb
1 : entreat , implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea
2 : to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1 : to make a request in a humble manner
2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

The above makes it clear, praying is more than just talking. It is about making requests or pleading and humbly at that. It says Christ was TALKING with Elijah and Moses, not pleading with them or asking them, TALKING with them. He wasn’t praying. So again, WHO in the bible has prayed to anyone other than God…

As a side note… are we praying to each other right now?

 

[LilyM]

That doesn’t cut it, they were physically there - right before Him. They weren’t holograms or videos from Heaven. When you pray to Mary, she is not physically there right before you. She is in Heaven.

To Pray:
transitive verb
1 : entreat , implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea
2 : to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1 : to make a request in a humble manner
2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

The above makes it clear, praying is more than just talking. It is about making requests or pleading and humbly at that. It says Christ was TALKING with Elijah and Moses, not pleading with them or asking them, TALKING with them. He wasn’t praying. So again, WHO in the bible has prayed to anyone other than God…

As a side note… are we praying to each other right now?

So? I can talk to my mother without her being physically there with me, I can talk to Jesus without Him being physically here with me.

Didn’t He say that His followers would not only do the same works He did but even greater?

So there’s no reason on earth to think, if we can communicate with Him without being physically present, that we can’t also communicate with them.

As for prayer - you’re absolutely right. And the saints being Christ’s (God’s) body, any sort of communication we address to them is also automatically addressed to Him (He being God) through them. So simply talking to the saints does equal prayer.

Just like talking to my hand (assuming you’d want to) automatically means you’re also talking to my head (since you’re fully aware that my hand does and hears nothing but through the head which controls it).

So yeah, you could say you’re praying to God through me (shorthand expression praying TO me) right now, and vice versa.

 

[reteeks21]

So? I can talk to my mother without her being physically there with me, I can talk to Jesus without Him being physically here with me.

Didn’t He say that His followers would not only do the same works He did but even greater?

So there’s no reason on earth to think, if we can communicate with Him without being physically present, that we can’t also communicate with them.

As for prayer - you’re absolutely right. And the saints being Christ’s (God’s) body, any sort of communication we address to them is also automatically addressed to Him (He being God) through them. So simply talking to the saints does equal prayer.

Just like talking to my hand (assuming you’d want to) automatically means you’re also talking to my head (since you’re fully aware that my hand does and hears nothing but through the head which controls it).

So yeah, you could say you’re praying to God through me (shorthand expression praying TO me) right now, and vice versa.

So, are we praying “to” you or with “you”? It would seem that the latter is what we would actually be doing.

 

[LilyM]

So, are we praying “to” you or with “you”? It would seem that the latter is what we would actually be doing.

This comes back to what I said in my post there, the expression praying ‘to’ is simply a shorthand that we use when we mean ‘praying with’. I mean we never address the saints as an end in itself, the intent is always ultimately to address God through that saint.

 

[reteeks21]

This comes back to what I said in my post there, the expression praying ‘to’ is simply a shorthand that we use when we mean ‘praying with’. I mean we never address the saints as an end in itself, the intent is always ultimately to address God through that saint.

Okay. That’s what I thought. Just wanted clarification. Thanks.

 

[justasking4]

My question would be that if we know how Scriptures says that God had a special purpose for Mary, then why the reverence? God’s plan came full circle. Our everlasting worship and glory and honor is to our Lord Jesus who alone is our salvation and our crystal fountain of faith.

 

[hays1122]

hays, I think it’s nice that as a Protestant you believe the apparitions of the Blessed Mother. Maybe she is calling out to you to recite the rosary yourself, and to look into the Catholic faith. We just had two Methodist converts at my church.

I agree that it may be possible that the Lord is leading me to the Catholic church,or Or maybe Mary.
Though being brought up to believe that only the Lord calls us,I have to say the Lord.
I do find it interesting that ever since I discovered EWTN all I can stand is to listen to their programming. I very rarely turn my radio to the other stations. If I could listen 24/7 I would. And I have been looking for Catholic literature. I have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic church. I also found a pamphlet that explains how to say the Rosary.
But after years and years of my mother’s guidance,it’s hard to break away full force.
You have to understand that we are taught that anything that isn’t found in the Holy Scripture is not of God. Whatever I read has to agree with God’s word. Otherwise I’ll spend eternity in the lake of fire. And eternity is forever and ever,and more “ever” after that. “Where there will be wailing and gnatching of teeth.”
As in Matthew 13: 49-50,"So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just. The angels shall go out, and shall separate the wicked from among the just.
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "
I don’t know what Catholic parents tell their kids about staying in the religion they are being taught. I was taught that “our religion” was the right way. Any other way was “wicked”.
And there is no purgatory to work out our sins.
I just tell you all this so you’ll understand why it is so difficult for me to walk into a Catholic church. I have had the fear of God’s wrath ingrained into my being.
Who can argue with keeping the ten commandments.
I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not have any strange gods before me.(which means Mary or saints,if I talk to them in anyway that should be directed toward God)
And honor thy father and mother. (which means I should listen to their instructions)
Then there’s John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” I’m sure you know what I was taught when it comes to this verse. I can only direct my prayers to Jesus.
But at least I am venturing out,reading and doing some research on my own. And I found this website where I can ask questions and read what others write. I have especially been enjoying reading the threads written by Catholics.
I already know what protestants have to say.
The Lord blesses those who seek Him.
Deuteronomy 4:29 “But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.”

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I agree that it may be possible that the Lord is leading me to the Catholic church,or Or maybe Mary.
Though being brought up to believe that only the Lord calls us,I have to say the Lord.
I do find it interesting that ever since I discovered EWTN all I can stand is to listen to their programming. I very rarely turn my radio to the other stations. If I could listen 24/7 I would. And I have been looking for Catholic literature. I have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic church. I also found a pamphlet that explains how to say the Rosary.
But after years and years of my mother’s guidance,it’s hard to break away full force.
You have to understand that we are taught that anything that isn’t found in the Holy Scripture is not of God. Whatever I read has to agree with God’s word. Otherwise I’ll spend eternity in the lake of fire. And eternity is forever and ever,and more “ever” after that. “Where there will be wailing and gnatching of teeth.”
As in Matthew 13: 49-50,"So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just. The angels shall go out, and shall separate the wicked from among the just.
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "
I don’t know what Catholic parents tell their kids about staying in the religion they are being taught. I was taught that “our religion” was the right way. Any other way was “wicked”.
And there is no purgatory to work out our sins.
I just tell you all this so you’ll understand why it is so difficult for me to walk into a Catholic church. I have had the fear of God’s wrath ingrained into my being.
Who can argue with keeping the ten commandments.
I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not have any strange gods before me.(which means Mary or saints,if I talk to them in anyway that should be directed toward God)
And honor thy father and mother. (which means I should listen to their instructions)

**Hi Hays; To begin to grasp this wonderful mystery of the body of Jesus Christ on earth with Jesus the head in heaven always present in his body in the Catholic church because he promised this in his Living Word. What you have a misunderstanding about is called “Communion of Saints”. Secondly, in the new covenant of God through his son Jesus Christ, we are now children in the family of God, Jesus taught us to call him “Abba Father”. To grasp this mystery first is to become part of God’s family and body of Jesus Christ, where we honor our Father and Mother according to the commandments. The misunderstanding of “LOVE” for God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit from a Catholic perspective allows us to give due worship and thanksgiving to God for giving us a bless’d Mother that bore the Word of God made flesh (Jesus). Just as the old ark of the covenant was Holy and reverred by all because it possesed the Word of God written in Stone, Mary the ark of the New Covenant possesed the Word of God made flesh, and she is reverred and venerated as a Holy vessel of God “Theotokos” not worshipped.

Peace**

 

[churchcamefirst]

I agree that it may be possible that the Lord is leading me to the Catholic church,or Or maybe Mary.
Though being brought up to believe that only the Lord calls us,I have to say the Lord.
I do find it interesting that ever since I discovered EWTN all I can stand is to listen to their programming. I very rarely turn my radio to the other stations. If I could listen 24/7 I would. And I have been looking for Catholic literature. I have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic church. I also found a pamphlet that explains how to say the Rosary.
But after years and years of my mother’s guidance,it’s hard to break away full force.
You have to understand that we are taught that anything that isn’t found in the Holy Scripture is not of God. Whatever I read has to agree with God’s word. Otherwise I’ll spend eternity in the lake of fire. And eternity is forever and ever,and more “ever” after that. “Where there will be wailing and gnatching of teeth.”
As in Matthew 13: 49-50,"So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just. The angels shall go out, and shall separate the wicked from among the just.
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "
I don’t know what Catholic parents tell their kids about staying in the religion they are being taught. I was taught that “our religion” was the right way. Any other way was “wicked”.
And there is no purgatory to work out our sins.
I just tell you all this so you’ll understand why it is so difficult for me to walk into a Catholic church. I have had the fear of God’s wrath ingrained into my being.
Who can argue with keeping the ten commandments.
I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not have any strange gods before me.(which means Mary or saints,if I talk to them in anyway that should be directed toward God)
And honor thy father and mother. (which means I should listen to their instructions)
Then there’s John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” I’m sure you know what I was taught when it comes to this verse. I can only direct my prayers to Jesus.
But at least I am venturing out,reading and doing some research on my own. And I found this website where I can ask questions and read what others write. I have especially been enjoying reading the threads written by Catholics.
I already know what protestants have to say.
The Lord blesses those who seek Him.
Deuteronomy 4:29 “But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.”

hays, it’s time to cut the apron strings from your mother and truly belong to the true church Christ founded. Think about your soul and not others. It is all about you. Jesus is calling you, it is so clear.

 

[Leeann]

**Originally posted by Cinette:
Leeann I understand your intensity, your search, your objections, your outrage. Jesus Himself said some pretty outrageous and unfair things! **

Reply posted by Leean:
I’m not searching…I’m quite confident and content right where I am and in what I am…a child of God. And while I am intense with my objections, I am not outraged. I don’t really think you do understand my objections as is evident in your postings.

Leeann we can never be “content” because conversion is an ongoing process that is with us always until we die – we hunger and thirst and can never be satisfied in this life. “Our hearts were made for you O Lord and will not rest until they rest in thee (I am paraphrasing here) St Augustine. There is always more - every time we re-read the Bible we keep discovering more

.
Yes, of course we do.
As you point out below, “context” is a very important thing, when I say I am “content”, it is with the definition below in mind and based on Paul’s words of encouragement to the Colossians who were dealing with a false doctrine that had been reported to him.
*(This doctrine was a mixture of Judaism and an early form of Gnosticism, teaching that Jesus was super human, but not truly God and not great enough to be Savior, therefore those who believed in Christ must also go through angels to get to th deeper levels of spirituality. As well, they taught legalistic rules about food,special festivals - as a means of salvation.) *

Paul described these things as merely shadows of the reality that ]is in Christ./

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)definition:
**con•tent ** kənˈtɛnt
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
**1. satisfied with what one is or has; not wanting more or **anything else.

Colossians, Chapter 2: V 1 – 10

1:For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2:That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3:In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4:And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5:For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6:As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7:Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8:Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vaindeceit, after the tradition of men,after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9:For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10:And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

I am not aware of any “unfair things” that Jesus Himself said….perhaps you could enlighten me on that.

**by Cinette: **What about the labourers who worked all day for the same wage as those who worked just one hour?
Luke 9:57-62 “………….let the dead bury the dead…………”
In Matthew 10:34 – “I did not come to bring peace but a sword………………” (sound a bit like Islam!!)
Then directly following that Jesus said “….a man will be against his Father……” (seems to go against the 4th commandment)
I understand that one must look at the context and the culture – that if we compare it to our culture and our mode of expression it may appear harsh and that what Jesus actually meant was not exactly as it is quoted in the bible.

Well this is a very wise and commendable way to approach reading the bible….looking at the context and the culture……along with, what should be first and foremost…. prayer for guidance from the Holy Spirit, in order to be able to distinguish from what may appear as “unfair” or “outrageous”statements that Jesus (God incarnate) said. To do otherwise would be foolhardy.

**by Cinette:**Just one more thing - Jesus called his Mother “Woman” at Cana and at the foot of the cross come to mind. To us this might sound terrible - if I addressed my Mother as Woman she would not like it one bit. But it is not meant in the way we would understand it in our time and culture. I understand that. Gosh how did we get on this? Anyway…

I have no idea???

**by Cinette:**I would like to say more but have to pack. We are leaving tomorrow morning for a week’s holiday at the coast!
I am pleased you love and honour Mary also - just not the same way as we do.

That is correct.

 

[peary]

I am fed up with the false misconceptions by Protestant Christians who insist that we worship Mary and the saints. I will put this in plain English.

Catholics DO NOT worship Mary and the saints. It is veneration and honor due to them because they lived out the life that Jesus Christ taught them! They are also in Heaven with God. They are much closer to God than you and me.

Who are you to judge us that we worship saints and Mary? Do you think you an expert in Catholicism. Do you have proof from a Catholic document permitting the worship of saints and Mary?

You won’t find it. We believe these saints are more alive than you and me. It benefits us to ask the entire of the people of God to help us while we are still in this world which is full of temptation and sin. We ask the saints to “pray for us.”

Many times here on Catholic Answers Forums. Some Newbie self-proclaimed Christian declares, I say many Catholics worship Mary. Not all do, and maybe it’s not in the instruction manual, but many do. Every Catholic will come to these idoloters’ defense and say, “Oh, it’s not worship, it’s veneration.” Sorry, not buying it, and nobody should.

Oh, please. You will probably start searching for the truth and use Catholic prayer books on saints and Mary as proof text. Prayer Books however, are not Church documents.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church forbids worshipping idols. Worship is due to God alone.

Must we Catholic force you to type, “Catholics do not worship Mary.”

If you continue on this persistence, I might as well say that “Protestants worship the Bible, or the roof during their Sunday worship at Church.”

After all they raise hands up towards the ceiling. So they worship ceilings of the Church. Of course, I don’t think they worship ceiling just because they had their hands raised up high in adoration.

**Do what I did: I told them since they can’t get their facts stright, they need to shut up. That usually ends the matter. **

 

[justasking4]

**Do what I did: I told them since they can’t get their facts stright, they need to shut up. That usually ends the matter. **

What do you think of this article on the power of the rosary?

The Secret of the Rosary

by Saint Louis de Montfort
MONTFORT PUBLICATIONS, New York
Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, 1954

TWENTY-NINTH ROSE: MEANS OF SALVATION

SAINT DENIS said that there is nothing more noble and more pleasing to God than to cooperate in the work of saving souls and to frustrate the devil’s plans for ruining them. The Son of God came down to earth for no other reason than to save souls.

He upset Satan’s empire by founding the Church, but the former rallied his strength and wreaked cruel violence on souls by the Albigensian heresy, by the hatred, dissensions, and abominable vices which he spread throughout the world in the XIth, XIIth and XIIIth centuries.

Only stringent measures could possibly cure such terrible disorders and repel Satan’s forces. The Blessed Virgin, Protectress of the Church, has given us a most powerful means for appeasing her Son’s anger, uprooting heresy and reforming Christian morals, in the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary. It has proved its worth for it has brought back charity and frequent reception of the Sacraments which flourished in the first golden centuries of the Church and it has reformed Christian morals.

Pope Leo X said in his Bull that this Confraternity had been founded in honor of God and of the Blessed Virgin as a wall to hold back the evils that were going to break upon the Church.

Gregory XIII said that the Rosary was given us from Heaven as a means of appeasing God’s anger and of imploring Our Lady’s intercession.

Jules III said that the Rosary was inspired by God in order that Heaven might be more easily opened to us through the favors of Our Lady.

Paul III and Saint Pius V stated that the Rosary was given to the faithful in order that they might have spiritual peace and consolation more easily. Surely everyone will want to join a confraternity which was founded for such noble purposes.

Father Dominic, the Carthusian, who was deeply devoted to the Holy Rosary, had this vision: Heaven was opened for him to see and the whole heavenly court was assembled in magnificent array. He heard them sing the Rosary in an enchanting melody and each decade was in honor of a mystery of the life, passion or glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and of His Blessed Mother. Father Dominic noticed that whenever they said the sacred name of Mary they bowed their heads and at the name of Jesus they genuflected and gave thanks to God for the great good that He had wrought in Heaven and on earth through the Holy Rosary, which the Confraternity members say here on earth. He noticed too that they were praying for those who practise this devotion. He also saw beautiful crowns without number which were made of gorgeous perfumed flowers held in readiness for those who say the Holy Rosary devoutly. He learned that by every Rosary that they say they make a crown for themselves which they will be able to wear in Heaven.

This holy Carthusian’s vision is very much like that which Saint John the Beloved Disciple had. He had a vision of a very great multitude of Angels and Saints who continually praised and blessed Our Savior Jesus Christ for all that He had done and suffered on earth for our salvation. This is precisely what the devout members of the Rosary Confraternity do.
It must not be thought that the Rosary is only for women and for simple and ignorant people; it is also for men and for the greatest of men. As soon as Saint Dominic acquainted Pope Innocent III with the fact that he had received a command from Heaven to establish the Confraternity of the Most Holy Rosary, the Holy Father gave it his full approval, urged Saint Dominic to preach it and said that he wished to become a member himself. Many Cardinals embraced the devotion with great fervor too, which prompted Lopez to say: “Neither sex nor age nor any other condition has kept anyone from devotion to the Holy Rosary.”

Members of the Confraternity have always been from all walks of life: dukes, princes, kings, as well as prelates, cardinals and Sovereign Pontiffs; it would take too long to give all their names in this little book, which is but a summary. If you join the Confraternity, dear reader, you will share in the devotion of your fellow members and in the graces that they gain on earth as well as in their glory in heaven. “Since you are united to them in their devotion you will share in their dignity.”

Do you believe that The Blessed Virgin, Protectress of the Church?

Do you believe Mary has the power to appease the anger of Jesus?

 

[LilyM]

Protectress of the Church? Why not?

The Church is Christ’s body. She (and Joseph who is also invoked as a Protector of the Church) protected His physical body as a child - for example when they ran away from Bethlehem when Herod was seeking to kill Him, or when they avoided Herod’s son’s territory on their from Egypt.

As for St Louis de Montfort - he isn’t a Doctor of the Church, nor an infallible teacher. He speaks of needing to appease Jesus’ anger, true, and claims Mary as a means of doing such.

Remember 300 years ago when St Louis was writing, Christians of ALL stripes were much more into the ‘wrath of God’ (ovbiously needing appeasement in some fashion) and ‘hellfire and brimstone’ ideas (read the lyrics of ‘Battle Hymn of the Republic’ sometime and you’ll see what I mean).

These days - not so much. And I certainly believe that IF God is a God of wrath and anger (and there are instances in scripture where He has shown Himself as such) - then if anyone can appease that anger Mary can, she’s closer to Him than we can possibly understand.

And didn’t Moses appease or stay God’s anger - at least by persuading Him (and God says in so many words that He is staying His hand for Moses’ sake) not to destroy the Israelites when they worshipped the calf? Of course Mary is ideally placed to perform a similar function with Christ.

 

[mmplps7783]

Respectfully I must say I again disagree. We must respect Mary because God Himself made her and chose her and she followed Him all the way. I can hardly compare the Blessed Virgin Mary with a chisel or paint brush. She is no mere instrument but a servant–the servant of servants in my opinion. She is a creation of God so therefore we do NOT worship her. But this wonderful creation had a free will to say no to God, she did not have to take the destiny she chose. She uniquely participated in our salvation! She herself was part of a plan before the foundation of the world to bring us sweet perfection and the Savior of the World! How can we not pay her homage and give her devotion? I’m so thankful and loving to my mother for giving me life. Now of course God gave me life through my mom but what if my mom had been one of those selfish types that says, “I don’t want kids!” My mom chose to cooperate with God and I’m here as a result. And who am I? I’m nothing compared to Christ! How much more should we thank the loving woman that opened her womb to GOD! And look at the rich tradition starting so early in the Church of paying her homage and devotion. It’s so illogical and just implausible that God would permit His Church to pay homage to Mary for 1500 years and allow ‘idolatry’??? I just can’t imagine how Christ would tell John, “woman, behold your son, son behold your mother” without a Church concept behind it and more meaning than just a ‘take care of her for me when I’m gone, ok?’ context? The historic Church has given Mary far too much love, devotion, and prominence to be discounted and chided 1500 years after the fact. She is the mother of God with the Son of Man’s blood in her veins. She’s no chisel! She’s my mother.

I am not saying that what you’re saying is right nor am I saying that I agree. I am still searching and keeping an open mind and I hope that whoever responds t this will as well. Yes I agree with you that maybe protestant do not give Mary proper respect in your eyes. But I do. As a very protective mother I can not fathom having to stand helplessly by and watch my child being beaten beyond recognition and murdered. Here is my only problem that I have with your statement about idolatry. You claim that God would not allow this “homage” of Mary for all of these years if it wasn’t deserving (again correct me if I’m wrong). But he would. It will not be until the end of time (or our death) that we will be judged. If not then what about all of the other religions that worship mother earth and so on? I agree that “homage” should be paid I just don’t agree with the execution of that “homage”.

 

[mmplps7783]

I agree that it may be possible that the Lord is leading me to the Catholic church,or Or maybe Mary.
Though being brought up to believe that only the Lord calls us,I have to say the Lord.
I do find it interesting that ever since I discovered EWTN all I can stand is to listen to their programming. I very rarely turn my radio to the other stations. If I could listen 24/7 I would. And I have been looking for Catholic literature. I have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic church. I also found a pamphlet that explains how to say the Rosary.
But after years and years of my mother’s guidance,it’s hard to break away full force.
You have to understand that we are taught that anything that isn’t found in the Holy Scripture is not of God. Whatever I read has to agree with God’s word. Otherwise I’ll spend eternity in the lake of fire. And eternity is forever and ever,and more “ever” after that. “Where there will be wailing and gnatching of teeth.”
As in Matthew 13: 49-50,"So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just. The angels shall go out, and shall separate the wicked from among the just.
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "
I don’t know what Catholic parents tell their kids about staying in the religion they are being taught. I was taught that “our religion” was the right way. Any other way was “wicked”.
And there is no purgatory to work out our sins.
I just tell you all this so you’ll understand why it is so difficult for me to walk into a Catholic church. I have had the fear of God’s wrath ingrained into my being.
Who can argue with keeping the ten commandments.
I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not have any strange gods before me.(which means Mary or saints,if I talk to them in anyway that should be directed toward God)
And honor thy father and mother. (which means I should listen to their instructions)
Then there’s John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” I’m sure you know what I was taught when it comes to this verse. I can only direct my prayers to Jesus.
But at least I am venturing out,reading and doing some research on my own. And I found this website where I can ask questions and read what others write. I have especially been enjoying reading the threads written by Catholics.
I already know what protestants have to say.
The Lord blesses those who seek Him.
Deuteronomy 4:29 “But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.”

I am in the same boeat with you. That has been what is happening to me as well. But I found out why. To me (maybe it’s different for you) I am able to go in depth and actually talk to people who know more about the bible than I do. But I will say that I have not been “convinced?” to change religions. I feel that as long as I am following Christ and his word then he will lead me in the path that is correct for me. I do not believe that the Catholic religion is the only true religion because even they have different sect just like the protestants (don’t quote me on tht i vaguely remember reading that somewhere). I figure as long as I’m following Christ I can’t go wrong.

 

[Leeann]

hays, it’s time to cut the apron strings from your mother and truly belong to the true church Christ founded. Think about your soul and not others. It is all about you. Jesus is calling you, it is so clear.

The “arpon strings from your mother…”
hmmmm…how easily we toss out phrases…does anyone else see the irony here???

 

[hays1122]

I was listening to Father Corapi just last night. And he said something that I hear at Protestant
churches all the time.
He said,“Anything or anyone who comes before Jesus is an idol. The one thing that occupies your mind the most.”
Well when I hear the rosary being said on EWTN I can’t help but feel that Mary is being put before Jesus.
And this is why.
The next chance I had, I counted each prayer as it was recited. This is the way the Rosary was recited.
The Rosary :
Apostle’s creed -recited — 1 time
The Lord’s Prayer-recited - 6 times
5 mysteries-about Jesus----5 times
Hail Mary-------------------------50 times
Glory be to the Father---------6 times
Oh My Jesus---------------------4 times
Hail Holy Queen-----------------1 time
Oh God,whose only begotten son…(a prayer to God about the Rosary) -recited once.—1
The mysteries, a different one of the mysteries which could be Joyful,Luminous,Sorrowful or Glorious.
There are 3 to 5 mentions of Jesus and his experience on earth,when reciting the mysteries.

23-prayers went to Jesus our God or refers to him personally.
51- prayers went to Mary.
Who is being put first, who is occupying the mind the most?
Please remember I am here to learn from Catholics. I don’t want protestant bashers to attack me for asking a question that clears up any misconceptions.