I'm in spiritual anguish

[Fox]

I would be willing to be celebate until its complete because I know my relationship with my wife isn’t built upon sex, the priest has to “ok” it though.

 

[crazzeto]

Annulments are granted, I believe, to the former Sacrament of Marriage. It doesn’t sound like you have a Sacramental marriage, only a civil one. So I am confused on what you are annulling? The church doesn’t annul a civil marriage.

I would get a “second opinion” and suggest this post gets moved to the proper forum.

It’s not his marriage to his wife that is being annulled, it is her marriage to her ex husband which must be annulled before his marraige to his current wife can be convalidated in the Church. She requires an anullment because the Churches stance on the sacrament of marriage is “valid unless proven otherwise”. As far as the church is concerned, because she is not Catholic her previous marraige may be a valid sacramental marraige.

To the OP, don’t dispair… Given the state of things in the culture now there is very little likelyhood her previous marriage was a valid sacramental marriage. The church requires among otherthings, that you be fully and truely open to life when you get married, i.e. no contraception. This alone could invalidate her previous marriage, there are other standards as well.

Just hang tight, keep your prayer life up, and trust fully in the will of God.

Edit
Oh yeah, you also are not truely excommunicated (unless you were directly told this). When one is excommunicated, they may not receive the sacrament of reconciliation, no matter what, unless a Bishop (sometimes only the Bishop of Rome) lifts the excommunication. Your case is different, in that once your marriage situation is resolved you are immediatly free to see the sacrament of reconciliation, then all the other sacraments.

God bless,

 

[puzzleannie]

I would be willing to be celebate until its complete because I know my relationship with my wife isn’t built upon sex, the priest has to “ok” it though.

your story will be of immense help to a lot of people, and you will find this period one of deep grace and growth for you and your family.

Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give to a Catholic who is thinking of marriage to a divorced non-Catholic, and who does not plan to marry in the Church, ask for the necessary permissions etc. For that matter what advice would you give about entering into romantic relationships.

 

[promethius]

The priest imposed on me no communion or confession. So I’m excommunicated.

No. You are not excommunicated and you are neither banned from communion nor confession. Because you are not sacramentally wed to this woman, and there is some concern that she may be validly married to another, you are to live with her in chastity for the time being (otherwise, this is a sin of adultery/fornication). If you are capable of doing this, then you can maintain a state of grace and receive Communion. When/if you fail, you attend confession and receive absolution before attending Communion again.

Your priest means well, but he is incorrect in solution. The right answer is not to put you in a state of mortal sin, but to say as Christ did: “go forth and sin no more.” Live chastely and avail yourself of the sacraments often.

I would be willing to be celebate until its complete because I know my relationship with my wife isn’t built upon sex, the priest has to “ok” it though.

You might simply inform him that you are living celebately and that you will be returning to the sacraments. He never had the authority to tell you you were banned in the first place, so you don’t need his approval. Simply state that you are not living in sin and that you are returning to the sacraments.

(SIDE NOTE: if your commitment to chastity is true, however, be forwarned, you can’t violate that chastity with the idea “It’s okay, I’ll just go to confession after doing it and God will have to forgive me”… that would be sacrilage and abuse of confession. While you may occasionally fail, you have to legitimately fail and not PLAN to do so with the intention of “hoodwinking” God by abusing the sacrament of confession. Better that you should just be resolute in chasitity than do that)

 

[fall_fox]

Annulments are granted, I believe, to the former Sacrament of Marriage. It doesn’t sound like you have a Sacramental marriage, only a civil one. So I am confused on what you are annulling? The church doesn’t annul a civil marriage.

I would get a “second opinion” and suggest this post gets moved to the proper forum.

Great suggestion ! ! ! I really do believe the priest is mistaken here. I’ve been through the annulment process and it’s tough.
What would be the “proper forum”?

 

[The_Idiot]

Oh dear - folk are reading what they want to read - not what’s actually been said .

Let’s try again

1. It is **HIS WIFE’S **previous marriage that has to be investigated to see if it can be annulled .

 

[JReducation]

Br. JR, I believe that what you said above is incorrect. What the Church looks for is whether the marriage was a valid sacramental marriage. The OP was civilly married to a non-Catholic Christian who has been divorced. Since non-Catholic Christians are not bound to get married in their church, their civil marriage is considered valid by the Catholic Church. It must, therefore must go through the annulment process. It may, or may not be found to be a valid sacramental marriage. If this is the case, then the OP will have to face separating from his wife.

The poin that I was making is that a marriage need not be a sacrament to be valid, that’s why I used the example of two Jews. Obviously, a Jewish marraige cannot be sacramental, since the coupld are not baptized. However, the marriage is valid and binding until death, as long as all other conditions are met.

I said this because someone said that the wife’s previous marriage was not valid, because it was not sacramental. I was trying to show how the sacramentality of the marriage is not the question, but the validity. Once you prove that the marriage was invalid, there is no sacrament. However, you can prove that there was no sacrament, but you may still have a valid marraige, as in the case of two non-Christians.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, OSF

 

[Fox]

your story will be of immense help to a lot of people, and you will find this period one of deep grace and growth for you and your family.

Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give to a Catholic who is thinking of marriage to a divorced non-Catholic, and who does not plan to marry in the Church, ask for the necessary permissions etc. For that matter what advice would you give about entering into romantic relationships.

I’d say if you really love someone just wait until the Church can grant the annulment and get married in the Church and not civilly, that way you can still receive the sacraments and not be put through torment like me. Get all your ducks in a row first. I really believe that you don’t pick who you fall in love with, it happens and I think God may have His hand in it somehow, not sure though. Do your best to abstain from sex before your married too, it can wait. Try only to be with one person and one person only, it is tough but through prayer you can do it.

 

[Fox]

I think the case has a good chance in the fact that her ex husband is an atheist and she didn’t want to have children in that type of atmosphere, amongst other things.

 

[Irishgal49]

Annulments are granted, I believe, to the former Sacrament of Marriage. It doesn’t sound like you have a Sacramental marriage, only a civil one. So I am confused on what you are annulling? The church doesn’t annul a civil marriage.

I would get a “second opinion” and suggest this post gets moved to the proper forum.

Call your Diocese and speak to someone who works with the annulment process. I think you’ve been steered wrong.

 

[Irishgal49]

A marriage does not have to be sacramental to be valid and binding until death. For example, two Jewish people marry. The marriage is not a sacrament. However, it is valid and binding until death as long as there was no impediment for validity

The Church always acts in defense of the bond, regardless of where one is married.

A decree of nullity means that the marriage never existed, because it was invalid.

Obviously, if an apparent marriage is invalid, it can’t be a sacrament.

What the Church looks for is validity, not sacramentality, since we can have valid marriages that are not a sacrament, such as between two Jewish people.

I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER nor an expert on law. The advice to ask this question in Ask An Apologist (AAA) is a good one. You may also find a canon lawyer in your diocese and ask him. Seminaries always have Canon Law professors, because all of us take a basic course in law.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I was told a civil marriage is NOT a marriage. PERIOD. A Jewish marriage would be recognized because it was a “religious” ceremony between two Jewish people. My priest told me my marriage was not even considered a marriage. I think he’s been steered wrong.

 

[Irishgal49]

Lots of peace and love in that message Joan

 

[JReducation]

I was told a civil marriage is NOT a marriage. PERIOD. A Jewish marriage would be recognized because it was a “religious” ceremony between two Jewish people. My priest told me my marriage was not even considered a marriage. I think he’s been steered wrong.

You do realize that you’re shouting at someone, right?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[puzzleannie]

I was told a civil marriage is NOT a marriage. PERIOD. A Jewish marriage would be recognized because it was a “religious” ceremony between two Jewish people. My priest told me my marriage was not even considered a marriage. I think he’s been steered wrong.

your priest gave you advice for your own particular situation

we do not know all the details of OP’s particular situation, which is why only his own priest can advise him properly, and then only when he has all the facts. It typically takes several interviews to ascertain all the facts, especially, when as in OP’s case, he himself did know know at the time he contracted his marriage all that the Chuch requires and teaches. And that may not be his fault as many Catholics come to adulthood without having learned the laws on marriage.

It is a huge mistake when discussing the entire topic of annulment to compare your personal situation to that of anyone else.

 

[Sillara]

The civil marriage of a baptized Catholic is not a marriage, period. (Unless dispensations were obtained. )

The civil marriage of two non-Catholics would be perfectly valid, assuming no other impediments, such as a previous marriage.

It is perfectly possible, as JReducation wrote above, for a marriage to be non-sacramental and yet be valid and binding until death.

The question of validity addresses whether or not there is an actual marriage; sacramentality is irrelevant.

The question of whether or not a marriage is sacramental is based solely upon the baptismal status of the parties involved.

All sacramental marriages are valid.
Not all valid marriages are sacramental.

 

[crazzeto]

As far as I know, unless a Catholic is involved sacramentality is not an impediment to having a valid, binding marriage.

 

[JReducation]

The civil marriage of a baptized Catholic is not a marriage, period. (Unless dispensations were obtained. )

The civil marriage of two non-Catholics would be perfectly valid, assuming no other impediments, such as a previous marriage.

It is perfectly possible, as JReducation wrote above, for a marriage to be non-sacramental and yet be valid and binding until death.

The question of validity addresses whether or not there is an actual marriage; sacramentality is irrelevant.

The question of whether or not a marriage is sacramental is based solely upon the baptismal status of the parties involved.

All sacramental marriages are valid.
Not all valid marriages are sacramental.

That’s why a priest may refer a case to the tribunal. Some priests will feel comfortable enough with Canon Law to make the judgment call for themselves. Others do not. They prefer to err on the side of caution.

We must remember that because a man is a priest or a brother, he is neither a theologian, a scripture scholar, a Canon Lawyer, a liturgist or Church historian. The basic formation that most of us get is: four years at college, where we get a BA degree in philosophy and some other secular science. From there we move on to a four-year degree in Theology where we come out with a Master’s degree. This four-year degree is like a four-year degree in medicine or law. It gives you enough to work with in the daily grind. It does not make you an expert in any area. In some seminaries, theologates and univesities, they allow you to write your Master’s Thesis on a subjec that you prefer and you take your electives in that area. That does not make you an expert.

To be an expert, you must go on for the doctorate degree. Even then, you become an expert in your area. If your area is theology, then Canon Law is not something that you master. You know enough to answer simple questions, because Canon Law is not theology.

The average deacon, priest and brother does not have expertise in Canon Law. He has had two-years of Canon Lw, that is four courses. Not enough to make you a lawyer, just enough to help you find information when you need it and deal with the common questions.

Those priests who are not comfortable making a judgment call in a case of two Christians married in a civil ceremony, will often defer the question to the tribunal. This is legitiamte.

What is illegitimate is for us, who are not Canon Lawyers, is to play amateur lawyers. Just because Fahter X said so, does not mean that what Father X said is right for every case.

On the flip side, just because a case is referred to the tribunal, does not mean that the marriage in quesion is valid or invalid. It simply means that the Church is being asked to make that final judgment call. It is not a statement one way or another. Until the tribunal speaks, we simply wait.

Instead of making pronouncements about the previous marriage of the spouse, valid or invalid, we should all be deffering to those who have the expertise to make such pronouncements. We should be encouraging this young man to take his case to the tribunal, to trust God and the Church and to hand in there with much prayer and faith that God’s Will be done.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Monica4316]

I’m spiritually beat down and I’m wounded. I’m married civilly to my wife. She was previously civilly married but civilly divorced. The Church wants her to get an annullment for this previous marriage before we can be married in the CC. We are doing the paperwork. She doesn’t understand it (she is episcopal). The priest imposed on me no communion or confession. So I’m excommunicated.

What if the annullment doesn’t get approved? Is the Church telling me that I have to break up my family, get another divorce/annullment, find another person and get married to them so I can receive communion/confession again? If I don’t then I can’t take communion nor confession for the rest of my life because of this? I’m faithful to my wife and love her dearly and I wouldn’t put her nor my children through pain for a principle.

It has been almost two years since I’ve had communion or confession and it is wearing me down now, so much so I broke down in church today. I can’t even get strength that confession affords and I’m slowly going down hill now. I’m beginning to question why I’m putting myself through this. Communion/confession are two things that sets us apart than other denominations so what benefit do I get for going to Mass anymore, why not just go to another church fo that matter to get that communal worship? I’m not getting
anything out of coming to Mass anymore.

I’m so sorry I guess the only thing to do is to pray that the annulment would be approved and that this is your wife’s first valid marriage.

I would encourage you to still attend Mass… even though it seems like you won’t get much more out of it than you’ll get out of another service, - because you can’t receive the Sacraments, that is actually not the case. The Mass contains many more graces than Protestant services… because even if you don’t receive Communion, Jesus is still substantially present there, and it’s the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary. Even simply attending a Mass gives grace, and also the priest’s blessing at the end… what I’m trying to say is that it’s much more than communal worship.

Here’s a video that sort of illustrates this youtube.com/watch?v=zjxL3sgfMqQ

Try to make a Spiritual Communion at every Mass, it’s the next best thing to a sacramental Communion.

God bless!

 

[mdgspencer]

You are not excommunicated from the Church. Not going to communion is different from that.
One option is living together as brother and sister. Of course, it would be easier if she could get an annulment. In either of these two ways, your situation could be settled so that you could go to communion.

 

[Irishgal49]

You do realize that you’re shouting at someone, right?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Your’re not shouting if you post one word in caps, like your JR OSF…sometimes people do put one word in caps to emphasize it, I think we can all get over the all caps thing.