I'm Leaving Catholicism & CAF

[Tis_Bearself]

I somehow doubt that this poll was scientific and unbiased and I would think that many busy priests would simply chuck it in the bin.

Also, it will be a cold day in you know where when I start trusting anything that comes out of the MSM especially in a generally atheistic country like the UK.

If someone is actually going to bail on the Church because of this type of “article” then their faith must really be a house built on sand and they need our prayers.

 

[Vico]

If anyone can explain how the Eucharist works to me 95% of my doubt would be solved. @Francis

Edit: Transubstantiation

If you were baptized then you will always be Christian. There is a mark that is not removed.

It is a miracle that the Body, Blood, soul, and divinity of Son of God appear as bread and wine after the consecration. They are not what they appear to be because Jesus said it would be true. St. Pope Paul VI wrote:

CHRIST PRESENT IN THE EUCHARIST THROUGH TRANSUBSTANTIATION​

46. To avoid any misunderstanding of this type of presence, which goes beyond the laws of nature and constitutes the greatest miracle of its kind, (50) we have to listen with docility to the voice of the teaching and praying Church. Her voice, which constantly echoes the voice of Christ, assures us that the way in which Christ becomes present in this Sacrament is through the conversion of the whole substance of the bread into His body and of the whole substance of the wine into His blood, a unique and truly wonderful conversion that the Catholic Church fittingly and properly calls transubstantiation. (51) As a result of transubstantiation, the species of bread and wine undoubtedly take on a new signification and a new finality, for they are no longer ordinary bread and wine but instead a sign of something sacred and a sign of spiritual food; but they take on this new signification, this new finality, precisely because they contain a new “reality” which we can rightly call ontological. For what now lies beneath the aforementioned species is not what was there before, but something completely different; and not just in the estimation of Church belief but in reality, since once the substance or nature of the bread and wine has been changed into the body and blood of Christ, nothing remains of the bread and the wine except for the species—beneath which Christ is present whole and entire in His physical “reality,” corporeally present, although not in the manner in which bodies are in a place.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_03091965_mysterium.html

 

[lilypadrees]

GladTidings:

Believe me, there is not a better Church than the one Jesus created. No way.

What is your conversion story?

I’m not convinced that the Roman Catholic Church was created by Jesus. My conversion story is pretty awesome i’ll have to give you the gist via pm.

The Church is Catholic. There are 24 autonomous Catholic churches. One Latin Church (Western) and 23 Eastern Catholic Churches. Even though each has it’s own specific heritage, they’re all in full communion with the Pope in Rome.

“Roman” refers to the rite practiced in the Western Church (ie: Roman Rite, Latin Rite).

 

[edward_george1]

And no I won’t be going to another religion. Once you leave Catholicism there really isn’t another Church to attend. When you stop believing in the mother of all the Churches all the others fall flat. I don’t see myself going back to Islam. I’ll just be mourning the loss of my Catholic faith.

A statement like this presumes that you believe that the Catholic faith is the truth. Why else would others fall flat? What reason could you possibly have to mourn the loss of your faith? We cannot mourn that which is not real and true and an object of our love.

I’m a priest. I wake up every morning and consecrate the Eucharist. I have no idea how it works. Sure, on a theological level, I can talk about the scriptural basis or the authority of the Church or what makes a sacrament. I could write a dissertation on what transsubstantiation is. But I can never comprehend the mystery I hold in my hands every single day. Far from being a daunting prospect, this only draws me in more. When we love a person, we find ourselves gradually being drawn into the mystery of who they are. When we love Jesus Christ, who is not just any person, but God himself, that mystery is infinite.

I think those who are trying to make arguments to convince you do so admirably, and I think you’re not too far off the mark to ask for an explanation of some point or another. But this post of yours I’ve quoted shows me that this isn’t a problem of argumentation or doctrine. It’s not about head knowledge, it’s about heart knowledge. You clearly want to believe, or else you wouldn’t have posted this at all. Say to the Lord “I believe, help my unbelief.”

You are in my prayers.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[HopkinsReb]

CatholicDetroit:

And no I won’t be going to another religion. Once you leave Catholicism there really isn’t another Church to attend. When you stop believing in the mother of all the Churches all the others fall flat. I don’t see myself going back to Islam. I’ll just be mourning the loss of my Catholic faith.

A statement like this presumes that you believe that the Catholic faith is the truth. Why else would others fall flat? What reason could you possibly have to mourn the loss of your faith? We cannot mourn that which is not real and true and an object of our love.

I’m a priest. I wake up every morning and consecrate the Eucharist. I have no idea how it works. Sure, on a theological level, I can talk about the scriptural basis or the authority of the Church or what makes a sacrament. I could write a dissertation on what transsubstantiation is. But I can never comprehend the mystery I hold in my hands every single day. Far from being a daunting prospect, this only draws me in more. When we love a person, we find ourselves gradually being drawn into the mystery of who they are. When we love Jesus Christ, who is not just any person, but God himself, that mystery is infinite.

I think those who are trying to make arguments to convince you do so admirably, and I think you’re not too far off the mark to ask for an explanation of some point or another. But this post of yours I’ve quoted shows me that this isn’t a problem of argumentation or doctrine. It’s not about head knowledge, it’s about heart knowledge. You clearly want to believe, or else you wouldn’t have posted this at all. Say to the Lord “I believe, help my unbelief.”

You are in my prayers.

-Fr ACEGC

You’re good at this. I enjoy reading your posts.

Carry on.

 

[guanophore]

Hmm maybe or maybe not. But it will be better than having to do mental gymnastics to make myself believe.

I don’t think so, but every person must decide for themselves. Mental gymnastics/calisthenics are good for my mental capacity, and striving to understand why people have been believing these things for 2000 years is a favorite pursuit of mine.

At the end, I find there are many things that I just don’t understand, and don’t think I ever will, this side of heaven. I am content for these things to be mysteries and reach out for them in faith.

Ultimately, it boils down to an encounter with Christ. This is a form of experiential knowledge that does not require “mental gymnastics” but just trust.

To be honest, it sounds like your reason is not “mental” as much as emotional.

“Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and they sprang up quickly, since they had no depth of soil.” Matthew 13:5

The time has come for you to put down some deep roots, and to continue growing even if your “heart” or emotions are not on board.

 

[MT1926]

Many of you know that I converted to the Roman Catholic Church from Islam over a year ago. The experiences that I have had within the church have been amazing. I’ve enjoyed every minute of my time.

After some reflection this evening, the doctrines I thought I believed…it turns out that I do not. This evening it’s like a shelf collapsing.

I am not here to convince you that you are wrong. The only thing I wanted to point out is your post sounds an awful lot like what a man would say when the honeymoon phase of his marriage just ended. His first year of marriage was amazing and he enjoyed spending every minute with his new bride. But now that a year has gone by he no longer believes about her what he believed when he fell in love with her. When they got married her little quirk didn’t bug him so much. But now that it’s been a year instead of continuing to love her and try to work through to come to a better understanding he decided he needs to do what is best for him and he just can’t deal with her quirk (Eucharist) anymore.

I mean no disrespect but this sure does sound like a guy who is no longer feeling the excitement he first felt.

God Bless

 

[guanophore]

This isn’t aimed at you but one of the things that boggles my mind is how leaving the Church is the same thing as leaving God in the mind of Catholics

This is one of those mystical realities. We believe that the Bride of Christ, as He, is incarnational. As He is both God and man, so is the Church comprised of both divine and human elements. Her Head is Christ, and her Soul is the Holy Spirit.

If anyone can explain how the Eucharist works to me 95% of my doubt would be solved.
Edit: Transubstantiation

There have been many explanations of this, and St. Thomas several volumes. A lot of his thought is too high for me.

Although I read and accept what the catechism teaches on this, it is beyond my feeble mental ability to grasp. I prefer to leave it in the realm of “mystery”. For me it boils down to accepting what Jesus said, or not. If He says “this is my body” do I choose to believe Him, even though I do not understand, or do I choose to consider Him a liar?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree this sounds like somebody who’s no longer getting the “high” off being a Catholic.

Like any relationship, one’s relationship with Christ and the Church is going to have great days, bad days, good days, days that feel like drudgery or going through the motions, and a whole lot of just plain ordinary days.

You’re never going to understand everything and you’re not going to feel jazzed about it all the time. Rock n’roll, deal with it.

 

[HopkinsReb]

CatholicDetroit:

Many of you know that I converted to the Roman Catholic Church from Islam over a year ago. The experiences that I have had within the church have been amazing. I’ve enjoyed every minute of my time.

After some reflection this evening, the doctrines I thought I believed…it turns out that I do not. This evening it’s like a shelf collapsing.

I am not here to convince you that you are wrong. The only thing I wanted to point out is your post sounds an awful lot like what a man would say when the honeymoon phase of his marriage just ended. His first year of marriage was amazing and he enjoyed spending every minute with his new bride. But now that a year has gone by he no longer believes about her what he believed when he fell in love with her. When they got married her little quirk didn’t bug him so much. But now that it’s been a year instead of continuing to love her and try to work through to come to a better understanding he decided he needs to do what is best for him and he just can’t deal with her quirk (Eucharist) anymore.

I mean no disrespect but this sure does sound like a guy who is no longer feeling the excitement he first felt.

God Bless

To continue this analogy, the solution when that happens is to find other ways the marriage is special, not to look for a new marriage. Once the honeymoon is over, you don’t try to recreate puppy love or find it somewhere else. You continue to engage in acts of love for your wife and find that your love manifests itself in new ways, and you accept that you change, she changes, and your relationship changes with time.

Likewise, if the puppy love phase of your faith is over, you don’t try to find some contrived way to reproduce those original feelings. You continue to practice the faith and find that, rather than recreating the initial feeling, it creates new spiritual growth that will not be exactly what you looked for or expected. God has changed you; you’re no longer the same person you were, and in light of that there’s no reason to think that your relationship with God should somehow stay the same throughout that change.

 

[Niblo]

Courageous decision. Ultimately a man must follow his conscience, even when it takes him in a direction that seems to go against Church teaching. Pope John Paul 2 was quite clear on this. So if a man’s consience tells him he must leave the Church, either temporarily or permanently, he must do so. It would be a mistake to stay while one knows in one’s heart one is called to leave.

Exactly…

 

[TheLittleLady]

We will leave the light on for you

Peace to you and your family.

 

[lilypadrees]

This isn’t aimed at you but one of the things that boggles my mind is how leaving the Church is the same thing as leaving God in the mind of Catholics

Not all Catholics feel this way.

Where two or more are gathered together, He is there also. Catholics feel closer to Him in the Catholic Church. We believe Jesus is the Founder of the Catholic Church. We believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth.

My late grandmother belonged to the Methodist church. She was a living example of His love. She felt as close to Him belonging to her church as I do in mine. I would never accuse her of leaving Him just because she wasn’t a member of the Catholic Church. She was the epitome of Proverbs 31:10-31.

God doesn’t look at the name above the church door. He looks at the heart. He comes to each person where they are in life and He remains with us to the end. We are the ones who decide whether or not we remain with Him by the way we behave and live our lives. Even if we turn away, He is there waiting for us to return.

Whether you choose to return to the Catholic Church or not, you are a Christian. Your religion is Christianity, the religion all Christians, regardless of the name above their church door, belong to.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I understand. Convert here. If for some reason I could not remain in the Catholic Church, I would be very inclined to believe nothing at all. Might explore Judaism but that would be after a long time. I get it.

As you mourn, I will suggest you pray one prayer “Help my unbelief”.

 

[Mary888]

Praying for you and may God illumine on what He wants from you through all these struggles and in general.

 

[MiserereMei25]

So only a year and your leaving?
The doctrine you have an issue with is the Eucharist.

Is there mire to the story? For a while I struggled with the Eucharist. I didn’t even believe in purgatory for a time.

I guess I’m not surprised. A year after converting I started engaging in New Age. But then I ended up returning to the Church.

We will leave the Light on I guess. Your always welcome home.

Do we really want to trust our own judgement on this one though? Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

 

[Aquinas11]

Haha, nooo, I’m leaving because of another’s opinion. Instead, because of my opinion that the Church is not the true church. Thank you for taking the time to post.

And no I won’t be going to another religion. Once you leave Catholicism there really isn’t another Church to attend. When you stop believing in the mother of all the Churches all the others fall flat

not sure what you mean here - the Church isn’t the “true” Church but is “the mother of all Churches”?

 

[Niblo]

Friends I’ve had an amazing time here on CAF. I’ve made many friends and have met some of you in person.

Many of you know that I converted to the Roman Catholic Church from Islam over a year ago. The experiences that I have had within the church have been amazing. I’ve enjoyed every minute of my time.

After some reflection this evening, the doctrines I thought I believed…it turns out that I do not. This evening it’s like a shelf collapsing.

It’s with sorrow my friends that I say Goodbye & I wish you all the best. Happy New year!

Remember the story of the father who had asked the disciples to cast an evil spirit out of his son, but they could not. Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) reminded him that all things are possible to one who has faith. The father replied ‘Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!’ (Mark 9:24).

I left the Church because – over the space of about nine years – I came to disbelieve several key doctrines. It would seem that you are not yet at this stage. Perhaps you should give yourself more time.

There is no reason why you should not continue to attend Mass – to share in its spirituality and prayers. If you doubt the Real Presence, then hold yourself back from receiving the Host. There is no harm in that. Receive Yeshua in your heart instead; saying: ‘Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!’ And find yourself a good and trusted spiritual advisor (I would recommend a Trappist, they are great for this sort of thing. A letter to any US Abbey should do the trick. You can communicate with an Adviser by mail - I know of no Abbey close you. Failing this, try the Carmelites!). And don’t leave the Forum!

I wish you God’s help. For sure, He will not fail you.

 

[lagerald24]

@CatholicDetroit, why would you want to leave the true Church? The One Church that Jesus established? From this Church, we receive great grace and assistance from God Himself through the powerful sacraments Jesus Christ instituted. The Eucharist, as the source and summit of the Christian life, gives us grace to face the trials in our life, to do God’s will, and to be in a close communion with Him. Even if you are going through a period of spiritual dryness, don’t leave the Church because Christ is our Shepard and the Church is His fold. Many great saints have had times in their lives when they didn’t feel God in their lives directly yet they trusted in Christ’s promises and persevered to the end. In regards to your objections to the Eucharist, I think it would be very helpful to take a look at the Early Church Fathers.

Ignatius of Antioch, who had been a disciple of the apostle John and who wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans about A.D. 110, said, referring to “those who hold heterodox opinions,” that “they abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again” (6:2, 7:1).

Forty years later, Justin Martyr, wrote, “Not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished, . . . is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” ( First Apology 66:1–20).

 

[EricF]

You aren’t leaving the Catholic Church. You may be leaving the practice of Catholicism, but since baptism and confirmation inscribe indelible marks on your soul, you shall ever more remain Catholic. My prayers are with you.