Im no longer going to be a Catholic

[uglygal]

Once I stepped aside from debates over salvation, atonement,
justification, categories of grace, categories of sin,
sources of authority, indulgences, mediators - and great
rest and inner quiet was found, in acknowledging the God of
Israel as the one God. It was coming home.

I stopped practicing Catholicism in 1965. I did aplogetics
for decades, in the sense of defending the Church, if I heard
her doctrines or practice mis-stated. I did this because I felt
that if one is going to reject teaching, one does well to understand,
thoroughly, that which one is rejecting.

My purpose, now, is to speak to those who have found
no home, within Christianity - yet who know that God exists.
The earliest faith remains the true faith. Judaism. There
is no call to convert to same, for that is not needed.

I always knew, from childhood, that there was something
too complex about Catholicism. Later, I came to the same
conclusion about Christianity itself, as I followed the debates.

Like the lions, surrounding Daniel, I found Christianity far too
complex to be the true faith.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/lionsasanxietiesaboutsalvation.jpg

The quiet of His pasture is better. We are to live so that the
world is a better place for us having lived. Born into this world
in innocence, we are to do our best to chose good. When we
fail, we turn back to Him, and ask forgiveness.

I have found that man complicates, not God.
And in finding this, I found Him.

reen12

I like reens answer.

My reasons:
Catholicism was a prison cell from which there was no escape. Where there was no shelter or sanctum of repose. It became a faith I became terrified of, and one that I would not be able to die with.
The catholic god is too complicated, too preoccupied with recording wrongs, too cold.
There was no where to run to and find peace.
I believe in Gods mercy … but don’t forget God is just
I believe God is just … but don’t forget he is mercy
which is greater? his justice.
From your conception he has hated you, you who are infected with original sin. For every single blemish you deserve eternal torment because you offend his … majesty?
No you don’t understand catholic doctrine, you don’t understand.
Pray more, now your praying too much.
The sacraments are graces, the sacraments are essential. The sacraments are god.
The gaze of god is ever upon you. He is love yet he wills suffering because he loves you.
Theodicy no.1
theodicy no.2
Does the true God need a theodicy?
Jesus loves you uncondictionally, he will admit you to heaven conditionally. Please explain? no … this is a mystery. You don’t understand. You got it wrong. You are wrong.
Catholicism believes in the Father … shame on you for believing in the Father.
I trust in Gods mercy … the sin of presumption
oh well, I’m going to hell … the sin of despair. catholicism came and the gates of heaven closed.

Too much confusion.

 

[estesbob]

I left because the RCC no longer resembles what Jesus established as his Church. For each individual reason, there are really too many to list. I am an ex-cradle Catholic and left the church a few years ago. I have a far deeper and more meaningful relationship with God in these current times.

Funny-I have read your posts and the Church you left in no way resembles the Church I belong to. Now having attended the seminary and gone to Mass all over the Northern Hemisphere I have never come across anything resembling the Church you claim to have lefr. Are you sure you werent a cradle Mormon?

 

[sola_scriptura]

well very long story but for myself it started with an incomplete confession and then i lost faith in just about every single catholic doctrine.save for the Eucharsit but even that was an incomplete beleif,i beleived that He was present in any church’s communion service in the same manner a catholic believes He is present…then with almost all my faith gone i jumped ship…my eyes and hearted opened up to the truth and came crawling back home to the fullness of the truth,His Body,His bride,His church,my mother.

Ahhh … should have gave the Presbyterian church a shot??? Anyway glad you’re back in a Christian church

 

[sola_scriptura]

Funny-I have read your posts and the Church you left in no way resembles the Church I belong to. Now having attended the seminary and gone to Mass all over the Northern Hemisphere I have never come across anything resembling the Church you claim to have lefr. Are you sure you werent a cradle Mormon?

Even as a Protestant I would have to say the church, as society, is better today than in former years in many ways; but we are also worse in many other ways.

Obviously the counter-reformation did much to improve the church. Thankfully (on my side of the bench) we’re past the Puritan era. Civil rights, the end of communism, the defeat of Nazi Germany, the end of slavery, womens rights, the global economy that is slowly reaching every corner of the globe, etc.

Even though we may be less dogmatic we’re behaving much better as a human race. I do think the church (to include all Christian churches) has been slacking though. We take trips to Africa and perform missionary work yet the only ones I’ve ever seen knocking on my door are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. So we’re allowing cults free reign to operate unchecked by real Christians. We need to get our buts off our couches & start knocking on doors.

Wouldn’t it be nice one day for people to get a knock on the door and have someone say Hello, we are from the local Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, or Catholic church and we just wanted to introduce ourselves and leave a brochure with you telling you about the benefits of joining our church. We could have seminars discussing our faith and feed people a nice meal when they come.

There are so many needs of families that the church is equipped to answer, which could draw people into to our communities.

We could have more youth groups that focus not only on Biblical fluency but also academics more generally speaking, to meet the challenge of education. None of this even requires money quite frankly. Yet we’re becoming an exceedingly isolated people and I blame the church in part … again all Christian churches. When will we wake the heck up?

We’re also such a judgmental people these days. All I see on TV is cop and lawyer shows. We love the good guys against bad guys stuff to the point where we have formed a love for chastisement. Are we any better than the pharisees were? I don’t see much relevant things being done to reach out to people in crisis. Sure, we have AA meetings at churches; but we hardly reach out to disaffected people; and when we do we still judge them. We’re a bunch of gossips, which is exactly what Jesus couldn’t stand.

We’ve become distracted by quibbling over Apostolic Succession and all these things rather than getting down to core business, exactly what Paul warned us against. It’s no wonder people are losing faith – we’re slowly conforming to the world; and as we conform to the greed, pride, gossip, and pharisaic nature of society why would anyone want to be Christian? Jesus said His sheep will hear His voice — so it seems to me if we want His sheep we need to speak with His voice.

Why not reach out to poor rural and inner city churches and have “sister church” relationships (like every city has a sister city or cities)? I mean it’s really up to us. Will we face the challenge of Islam in the coming years? I know globally Jesus will win; but what about in our nation who has such a profound Christian heritage? Will we dwindle to a bunch of heathens while China becomes the most Christian nation on earth? Not that China slowly becoming more Christian isn’t a good thing, it’s great. However, we already have people who at least say they’re Christian yet we take trips around the world instead of around the corner? Perplexing.

 

[estesbob]

Even as a Protestant I would have to say the church, as society, is better today than in former years in many ways; but we are also worse in many other ways.

Obviously the counter-reformation did much to improve the church. Thankfully (on my side of the bench) we’re past the Puritan era. Civil rights, the end of communism, the defeat of Nazi Germany, the end of slavery, womens rights, the global economy that is slowly reaching every corner of the globe, etc.

Even though we may be less dogmatic we’re behaving much better as a human race. I do think the church (to include all Christian churches) has been slacking though. We take trips to Africa and perform missionary work yet the only ones I’ve ever seen knocking on my door are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. So we’re allowing cults free reign to operate unchecked by real Christians. We need to get our buts off our couches & start knocking on doors.

Wouldn’t it be nice one day for people to get a knock on the door and have someone say Hello, we are from the local Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, or Catholic church and we just wanted to introduce ourselves and leave a brochure with you telling you about the benefits of joining our church. We could have seminars discussing our faith and feed people a nice meal when they come.

There are so many needs of families that the church is equipped to answer, which could draw people into to our communities.

We could have more youth groups that focus not only on Biblical fluency but also academics more generally speaking, to meet the challenge of education. None of this even requires money quite frankly. Yet we’re becoming an exceedingly isolated people and I blame the church in part … again all Christian churches. When will we wake the heck up?

We’re also such a judgmental people these days. All I see on TV is cop and lawyer shows. We love the good guys against bad guys stuff to the point where we have formed a love for chastisement. Are we any better than the pharisees were? I don’t see much relevant things being done to reach out to people in crisis. Sure, we have AA meetings at churches; but we hardly reach out to disaffected people; and when we do we still judge them. We’re a bunch of gossips, which is exactly what Jesus couldn’t stand.

We’ve become distracted by quibbling over Apostolic Succession and all these things rather than getting down to core business, exactly what Paul warned us against. It’s no wonder people are losing faith – we’re slowly conforming to the world; and as we conform to the greed, pride, gossip, and pharisaic nature of society why would anyone want to be Christian? Jesus said His sheep will hear His voice — so it seems to me if we want His sheep we need to speak with His voice.

Why not reach out to poor rural and inner city churches and have “sister church” relationships (like every city has a sister city or cities)? I mean it’s really up to us. Will we face the challenge of Islam in the coming years? I know globally Jesus will win; but what about in our nation who has such a profound Christian heritage? Will we dwindle to a bunch of heathens while China becomes the most Christian nation on earth? Not that China slowly becoming more Christian isn’t a good thing, it’s great. However, we already have people who at least say they’re Christian yet we take trips around the world instead of around the corner? Perplexing.

As I said before you continue to spout total ignorance of the the Church you claim to have left. . If the unbridled chaos we see since the "reformation " is progess God help us.

What would be nice if if everyone returned to the One True Church and quit making things up as they go along.

 

[KingAlfred]

Ha ha fooled you…
But seriously, what i want to know is, why do people leave the Catholic religion.
Please explain your reasons why you left…
Thanks
Dolphy

One major reason is that they don’t understand it. Ours is a historical faith. Without a historical understanding, the individual Catholic is vulnerable to confusion, boredom, and inner rebellion. I’ve had a number of students who abandoned the Church to join the screaming rabble of evangelical denominations. Privately, I always wonder how a rational person could do such a thing. I write it off to a lack of knowledge about the significance of everything the Catholic Church does and teaches.

 

[Irene72]

I was catholic by birth right I guess.
But the last few years I have been reading about the church and Christianity and have not been too impressed with it from that stand point.
I am not looking into Islam; but have not left the church yet; I am more of a gnostic who goes to catholic mass.

 

[rikkk1958]

I had been raised Catholic from birth…and I joined the Army in 1967. Before I went to Vietnam in 1968…those of us that were Catholics were called to a chapel where we met with a Catholic Chaplain… He spoke to us and it was all about the fact that all of us were going to war. He spoke about the fact that many if not most of us would experience combat and face the eventuality that we would have to kill another human being or be killed ourselves. I already knew that and accepted that fact…I was from a military family…my father was a career officer in Combat Arms who fought in two wars… But what the Chaplain told us was: Don’t worry about having to kill the enemy… God is on our side. For some reason, that statement angered me deeply. I knew the realities of the war in Vietnam, and I knew that even though we were going to be fighting communists… I also knew that Catholicism was strong in South Vietnam, and there had been Catholics all over Vietnam…and that the likelihood that many of them had been pressed into serving the VC and the NVA was very high. This was strongly on my mind and actually caused a rift in my mind and heart. It caused me to fall away from the Church. I served my country in Vietnam…I did my duty and my mission was to eliminate the enemy. I could not help but wonder…how many of my brother Catholics met their deaths due to my mission and its successes.

Amen to you RobHom and I am glad you came back to the truth. I almost left also during my college days just because I was in a baptist college and dating a baptist girl. I was so confused because if you do not dig yourself deep into catholic practice, the tendency for many catholics are easily get swayed from catholicism. I found the baptists were very devout in the Holy Bible and are everywhere to sit besides you whenever they have a chance and ask you “are you born again”? With this question, a half baked catholics will almost say that they do not know the question and want further explaination. The articulation and sweet talking style of those who wants you to be like them will most of the time can make you more accommodating and will ultimately lead you to accept their way of beliefs. After 9/11, I got hooked on digging deep into our faith again and found many things I have not learned or perhaps forgot about our cathechism. Yes, I believe that catholicism is a very free religion where we are left to understand and make our own choices unlike other religions where they are spoon feed with what they have to do and learn. This is what I like abut our faith. I believed that our Church have already established the Dogma of Faith and that all we have to do is to follow. this is why I am very attentive now to the sermons of the priests alone not to the variety of interpretations all of these so called reverends of other faith. We beleived as catholics that the scriptures were already scrutinized with utmost clarity and that the priest can only take scriptures within its context and needs only to explain how it can relate to our lives.

 

[reen12]

…Catholicism was a prison cell from which there was no escape. Where there was no shelter or sanctum of repose. It became a faith I became terrified of, and one that I would not be able to die with.
The catholic god is too complicated, too preoccupied with recording wrongs, too cold.
There was no where to run to and find peace…

…No you don’t understand catholic doctrine, you don’t understand.
Pray more, now your praying too much…

Jesus loves you uncondictionally, he will admit you to heaven conditionally. Please explain? no … this is a mystery. You don’t understand. You got it wrong. You are wrong.
Catholicism believes in the Father … shame on you for believing in the Father.
I trust in Gods mercy … the sin of presumption
oh well, I’m going to hell … the sin of despair. catholicism came and the gates of heaven closed.

Too much confusion.

Hello, uglygal. How are you?

I read your post, and I could sure understand
what you are saying.

Christians debate matters of authority:
Magisterium of the CC, sola scriptura.

One church will hold that righteouness is
‘imputed’ righteouness, while the CC asserts
that an ontological change takes place, with baptism.
A change in the very being of man, not a mere ‘imputed’ righteousness.

The claim itself ----> that original sin is a reality,
is simply accepted as true.

Now things get really complex.

For 700 years, there was the teaching on limbo.
Declared not to have been an ‘official’ teaching of the Church,
it was a thing to be memorized, as late as the 1950’s,
[Baltimore Catechism.] A very official ‘unofficial’ teaching.
Since an infant cannot express baptism of desire, what of
the eternal fate of this infant?

The CC is still addressing this issue. I can’t believe that it takes
a great deal of thought, considering the eternal fate of an
unbaptized infant. An example of the continued complexity -
with regard to this matter? From the Vatican website:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

Grace is now treated as commodity.
[the ‘economy’ of salvation.] Indulgences. Treasury of Merit.

newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

Viewing all of this, from the perspective of Judaic monotheism,
one is amazed, at the now complex route to salvation.

In the Hebrew scriptures, there is peace to be found in His pasture.



The God of Israel welcomes all, forgives sin, and offers eternal life.

Come now, let us set things right, says the Lord. Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow…[Isaiah 1: 18]

Can a mother forget her infant? Be without tenderness for the child of her womb?
Even should she forget, I will never forget you.
See? I have written your name on the palm of My hand.
[Isaiah 49: 25-16]

A far cry from Jesus of Nazereth saying:

How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. Matt. 7:14

God walk with you, uglygal.

reen

 

[nice2000]

Ha ha fooled you…
But seriously, what i want to know is, why do people leave the Catholic religion.
Please explain your reasons why you left…
Thanks
Dolphy

That was funny.
You pulled me right on in with this one.

I wanna know why too?

I’ll continue to read on to see what the people’s answers are.

By the way, My Mother-in-law’s Sister, was a “Catholic Nun” and became Protestant. still is

I never had the nerve to ask her why she converted to Protestant, I wanna know why though?

 

[sola_scriptura]

As I said before you continue to spout total ignorance of the the Church you claim to have left. . If the unbridled chaos we see since the "reformation " is progess God help us.

What would be nice if if everyone returned to the One True Church and quit making things up as they go along.

You would have us content with a flat earth, and a universe with earth at its center. Well, no thanks!

 

[mercygate]

You would have us content with a flat earth, and a universe with earth at its center. Well, no thanks!

The Catholic Church built one of the first astronomical observatories. Its roots can be traced to Pope Gregory XIII who established a committee to study the scientific data and implications involved in the reform of the calendar in the 16th Century. Nobody gave Copernicus any grief over positing a heliocentric solar system – well before Galileo came along. Some 35 craters on the moon are named for Jesuit priest-scientists, and, in fact, Astronomy was at one time known as “the Jesuit science.”

 

[estesbob]

You would have us content with a flat earth, and a universe with earth at its center. Well, no thanks!

You would be better off just letting us think you were ignorant of the Catholic Faith rather than make posts proving it.

 

[estesbob]

The Catholic Church built one of the first astronomical observatories. Its roots can be traced to Pope Gregory XIII who established a committee to study the scientific data and implications involved in the reform of the calendar in the 16th Century. Nobody gave Copernicus any grief over positing a heliocentric solar system – well before Galileo came along. Some 35 craters on the moon are named for Jesuit priest-scientists, and, in fact, Astronomy was at one time known as “the Jesuit science.”

Copernicus was a Catholic Priest and his research was supported by the Churh.

 

[estesbob]

Now things get really complex.

For 700 years, there was the teaching on limbo.
Declared not to have been an ‘official’ teaching of the Church,
it was a thing to be memorized, as late as the 1950’s,
[Baltimore Catechism.] A very official ‘unofficial’ teaching.
Since an infant cannot express baptism of desire, what of
the eternal fate of this infant?

Are you refering to LIMBUS PATRUM or LIMBUS INFANTIUM?

Or did you know there was a difference? Can you point to any Church document that declares the teachngs on either of these as a doctrine? Just what is it we Catrholics supposedly memorized about Limbo in the 1950S? I was in grade School then and I dont recall it all.

The CC is still addressing this issue. I can’t believe that it takes
a great deal of thought, considering the eternal fate of an
unbaptized infant. An example of the continued complexity -
with regard to this matter? From the Vatican website:

Since it is such a simple matter what the fate of infants that die before Baptism is please explain it to us and give us your source .

Viewing all of this, from the perspective of Judaic monotheism,
one is amazed, at the now complex route to salvation.

So why are there so many differing Jewsih denominations? if it is so simple wouldnt only one be required? And as far as complexity are you claiming that eating “Kosher” and folowing the Rules that Orthodox Jews follw is simple???

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

“You would be better off just letting us think you were ignorant
of the Catholic Faith rather than making posts proving it”

Touche!

 

[cathopologist]

I had a friend who claimed was born-Catholic:

• He left because he preferred crackers and ribena juice.
• He left because the church he was attending didn’t have better looking chicks.
• He left because he felt it wasn’t bible orientated.
• He left because he wanted more freedom, and felt mass was like attending kindergarten.
• Most of all, he left because his girlfriend (from New Creation church) felt uncomfortable during mass. Maybe she thought she could have been the next victim of an exorcism.

Amazing but true.

 

[Irene72]

You would be better off just letting us think you were ignorant of the Catholic Faith rather than make posts proving it.

Then I think the church is the ignorant one then. After all it is (was) the churches perception of the universe . Then again a man changed it to not “upset” any balance of power the church had.

Who gave the pope the “divine authority” to change this “original thought”? Do you really think he speaks for God?

Where in the bible does it say the church can change what was taught by Jesus?

Do you really think If Jesus came back today he would go straight to a catholic church? A church that is NOTHING like the ideas he once taught?

 

[Namesake]

The Catholic Church built one of the first astronomical observatories. Its roots can be traced to Pope Gregory XIII who established a committee to study the scientific data and implications involved in the reform of the calendar in the 16th Century. Nobody gave Copernicus any grief over positing a heliocentric solar system – well before Galileo came along. Some 35 craters on the moon are named for Jesuit priest-scientists, and, in fact, Astronomy was at one time known as “the Jesuit science.”

Copernicus did not publicly represent his science because he knew full well that to do so would result in extreme conflict with the RCC. Galileo went against the RCC teachings and for that he was destroyed by the RCC just as Copernicus would have been. The RCC is anachronistic and only was dragged kicking and screaming into enlightenment because of incontrovertible scientific evidence. Mendel maintained his RCC position only because it afforded him the means to conduct his science, not because of his dedication to RCC ideas, some of which his research tended to dispute, ie; it was a part of what we know about evolution. The RCC eventually was forced to capitulate because of the preponderance of the evidence that basically made the position of the RCC untenable regarding our origin.

 

[catharina]

I came here with no ideas of ever leaving the church. The fact that I disgreed with Her on many issues didn’t bother me a great deal. I had never had the occasion to meet ultra orthodox Catholics and find them akin to fundamentalists whom I consider dangerous across the board.

A very good friend told me about her Catholic experience. She, her husband and her priest were in sync theologically. They were very happy in the Church. Her priest was reassigned and a new one on his first Sunday held up the CCC and announced “if you don’t accept every word in this book, you are separated from the Church and not entitled to communion.” They never returned. I realized that I was not about to invest years in a parish only to have this happen to me.

I have left for the Anglican faith which I find simply refreshing in its friendship and openness. The service is nearly identical, all my favorite rituals are in place.

It’s not about being too hard to be Catholic, its that the Church is not available to people. It is not available to gays, divorcees, second marriages and folks like that. I will not turn over my conscience to any institution. The Episcopal faith would be shocked at the suggestion. They are based on bible, tradition and reason. If anything Catholicism is in a sense too easy, since it does your thinking for you, you need only obey. For those who like that kind of structure, its easy. For the rest, most simple ingore what they don’t like. Eight-five percent of all Catholics contracept for instance, and I would agree that this is not the teaching of the church. I finally realized that the extreme right here were right in trying to drive me out. It is hypocritical to remain in a church that you are in serious disagreement with.

When I met Father Bill, my new priest, he told me first off that he was ordained in the Catholic faith. I said that I was an unhappy Catholic. He and Rev. Barbara both burst into gentle laughter. “We get a lot of Catholics here.” The first parishioner I met was also a ex-Catholic.

As I see it, Catholicism has lost Europe, is losing America, and Latin America and a good deal of the East. It’s being split in many directions, much of it going to evangelicals. The ultra orthodox here say they are fine with a church 1/10 the size if it can be purified of dissent. I wish them well.

**This is saddening news but not surprising news. **
**Faith that is ridiculed rather than nurtured dies. **