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sola_scriptura
Guest
To the contrary “knowing” is faith:
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Namesake
Guest
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sola_scriptura
Guest
So you’re saying, within the context of faith, believing something is true is different than having “knowledge” of the truth?
Obviously in common English usage knowing carries more force that believing. The latter implies something thought to be true while the former implies knowledge of fact. However, do you just think God might exist or do you know He exists?
The words are also synonymous in many ways as well. For example we are called to come to “knowledge of the truth.” If we accept Biblical knowledge as truth that is faith is it not?
But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind (James 1:6).
What do you think happens to ships that are “blown and tossed” around by the wind? Usually a shipwreck.
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Namesake
Guest
Exactly.
If you had said sometimes instead of usually I would agree.
Then show me that God exists. I believe He does, but I can’t know for sure and no one else can know for sure. But we can all believe. Faith isn’t about knowledge, in a scientific sense, it’s about belief that is beyond knowledge.
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sola_scriptura
Guest
I’m not sure about your overall premise here. I will only say when a brother has doubts we need to help them through it, not chastise them.
Do you think James was a being a bit overly dogmatic with his statement about doubt? Throughout my life I have had doubts about God – not now but in the past yes. So I’m not one to engage in pharisaic judgment of someone going through a period of doubt. I do, however, think James is saying we need to come to a solid belief, a knowledge of truth. Without it endurance is more difficult. I accept the words of James in this regard.
With regard to saying science can know something in an empirical way, which religion cannot – I reject that idea. Frankly I can make a logical case for God & I have in discussions with atheists.
Don’t you know God wants all men to come to “knowledge” of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4)? Yes faith is hope and belief but it should develop into knowledge and accepting the existence of God as fact not just a possibility. To say God might exist is the definition of agnostic not Christian.
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Namesake
Guest
Some people can live comfortably for a whole lifetime with doubt. It isn’t a bad thing because it keeps you looking for answers. People who get comfortable with what they think is truth probably know a lot less than they could know. Doubt provokes us to learn more. If that’s agnostic, fine with me.
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sola_scriptura
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Your statement has a profound element to it, but is this how we really approach Christianity? I mean I have no doubts about God. Even more than that I have a certainty that I will persevere. However, this doesn’t prevent me from learning more about God each day. Hey I blog in this forum and learn new things constantly. So I think you’re view is okay … but I would think there’s a balance? This is all I’m saying.
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1ladybug
Guest
To me faith is this seed or flower bud inside that just knows/believes without proof or scientific knowledge or necessarily logic that something is true. That doesn’t mean that there won’t be times when there will be doubt. But even then deep inside we will know the truth. As we study and learn at work at strnghtening that faith that seed or flower bud will very gradually grow and open and our faith will increase and become stronger. That is if we are open to and nourish that seed inside us. If we denie it, trampol it down, give in to our doubts, that faith will die. This is true wether it is faith in God or in our own abilities. The more we exercise that faith and protect that faith the more it will grow. In the case of faith in God the more we pray and do good works for others less fortunate, the more we try to understand and excercise compassion for others, the more we try to see God in others the more our faith in God will grow.
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reen12
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BINGO.
Faith-based statements - relying on tiers of unsupported assertions = ‘faith.’
reen12
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reen12
Guest
Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
Good. Now we know where we are.
reen12
Good. Now we know where we are.
reen12
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sola_scriptura
Guest
I think in the first instance the thing to understand about faith is God gives faith to us, we do not acquire faith through our own endeavor.
However, God does also give faith in different measures (Romans 12:1), by grace (Eph. 2:8), to the elect (Eph. 1:4-5), who will persevere to the end (Romans 8:38-39).
Amen!
However, God does also give faith in different measures (Romans 12:1), by grace (Eph. 2:8), to the elect (Eph. 1:4-5), who will persevere to the end (Romans 8:38-39).
Amen!
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reen12
Guest
Faith is based on the conditional:
If…then.
If there is original sin, then man needs a savior.
If the scriptures were inspired by God, then they
are reliable sources of knowlege, as to belief and practice.
Grant given assertions…and all the rest follows.
Oh. Wait a minute. All the rest apparently doesn’t follow.
Christianity does have scriptures.
Who decided what writings were inspired by God - and not so inspired?
Who has the authority to interpret these scriptures?
What practices then flow - from given interpretations?
In the realm of belief, the conditional is critical.
If Peter was the rock, then Linus was, too.
The early Church was promised the protection of the Paraclete.
If Linus was chosen, then Linus became Peter.
1000 years, after Peter, Orthodoxy began to refer to itself as holding
orthodox doctrine, when Rome defined the ‘procession’ within the Trinity.
500 years after this became the reality, the Reformation Churches were formed.
Does each claim that they are the true Church of Jesus?
If we, Rome, state that Apostolic succession is critical, then it is critical.
If…then.
reen12
If…then.
If there is original sin, then man needs a savior.
If the scriptures were inspired by God, then they
are reliable sources of knowlege, as to belief and practice.
Grant given assertions…and all the rest follows.
Oh. Wait a minute. All the rest apparently doesn’t follow.
Christianity does have scriptures.
Who decided what writings were inspired by God - and not so inspired?
Who has the authority to interpret these scriptures?
What practices then flow - from given interpretations?
In the realm of belief, the conditional is critical.
If Peter was the rock, then Linus was, too.
The early Church was promised the protection of the Paraclete.
If Linus was chosen, then Linus became Peter.
1000 years, after Peter, Orthodoxy began to refer to itself as holding
orthodox doctrine, when Rome defined the ‘procession’ within the Trinity.
500 years after this became the reality, the Reformation Churches were formed.
Does each claim that they are the true Church of Jesus?
If we, Rome, state that Apostolic succession is critical, then it is critical.
If…then.
reen12
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reen12
Guest
I hope the sure and the certain won’t be too discommoded,I think in the first instance the thing to understand about faith is God gives faith to us, we do not acquire faith through our own endeavor.
However, God does also give faith in different measures (Romans 12:1), by grace (Eph. 2:8), to the elect (Eph. 1:4-5), who will persevere to the end (Romans 8:38-39).
Amen!
when they find heaven chockablock with the feckless. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Faith is defined as a ‘gift of grace.’
That’s why I go bonkers, when someone states that they have
prayed for faith, to no result.
“You haven’t prayed hard enough.”
“You don’t really want faith.”
“You just don’t want to rise early for Mass, on Sundays.”
“You wish to remain steeped in your sinful ways.”
“If you are genuine, in seeking to believe,
then you would accept the teachings of
the first ecclesial entity. Obviously these
teachings reflect truth, and nothing but the truth.”
‘Gee. I thought you said faith was a gift of grace.’ http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
reen12
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sola_scriptura
Guest
Of course it’s a gift of grace … that’s what I’ve been saying.
Why do you think confidence in our standing with God is such a bad thing? Didn’t He promise that if we believe in His Son we would not be put to shame? Do you think God will break His promises?
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cazayoux
Guest
Good thing the church doesn’t claim infallibility in astronomy.You would have us content with a flat earth, and a universe with earth at its center. Well, no thanks!
I’m actually surprised to see this post from you.
You are typically not responding in this manner.
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cazayoux
Guest
After reading your 42 posts so far, I seriously doubt you can name even one teaching of Jesus’ that the church changed.
He’s already there.
NOTHING? Is there even one thing that he taught that is in the church today?
michel
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catholiconce
Guest
CAtholic answers and EWTN RADIO and Mr patrick madrid. Also Priest who hurt litle boys and the fact that The RCC covered it up .Ha ha fooled you…
But seriously, what i want to know is, why do people leave the Catholic religion.
Please explain your reasons why you left…
Thanks
Dolphy
That however is just the tip of the Iceberg. I will continue when I get a chance.
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cazayoux
Guest
No doubt, there are, have been, and will be chaff with the wheat.
This does not change the validity of the truth taught by the Catholic Church.
As difficult as it is to see the hurt that has happened, don’t let that turn you from Jesus’ truth.
Men fail us, Jesus’ truth never will.
Separate the teachings of the church with the actions of some within the church.
with prayers,
michel
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Fitswimmer
Guest
My experience is very similar. I wandered in here last year looking for some conversation about religion-since it’s not something I normally do with co-workers and friends. Wow, what an eye-opener! I’ve been Catholic for all of my nearly 50 years, and have followed the teachings of the Church to the best of my ability, only to find out that my desire NOT to expect everyone else on the planet to be forced to make the same choices branded me an “infidel”.
I find fundamentalism unnerving, no matter who is practicing it and I had the naive impression that Catholicism didn’t have such a thing. I’m wide awake now.
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catholiconce
Guest
Leaving the Catholic church is NOT leaving Jesus. He is across the street in the Lutheran church as well.
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