Im no longer going to be a Catholic

[Frank_J]

Hi

You and the question why I’m no longer going a Catholic.

That is easy one to state and I will list them.

1.Turning the Altar around and making a table of it. “Quoting Pope Pius XXll”
2. Altar girls
3. Jazz Mass
4. Novus Ordo Mass
5. Nuns nolong wearing religionist vestments.
6. Left wing Bishop
7. Tabernacle being moved to the side Altar
8. Catholic Church supporting Illegal Aliens and violate U.S. laws

I could go on and on and on if you like. Just think I haven’t got to view on faith yet…

Have a great day.

Frank J

 

[sola_scriptura]

Hi

You and the question why I’m no longer going a Catholic.

That is easy one to state and I will list them.

1.Turning the Altar around and making a table of it. “Quoting Pope Pius XXll”
2. Altar girls
3. Jazz Mass
4. Novus Ordo Mass
5. Nuns nolong wearing religionist vestments.
6. Left wing Bishop
7. Tabernacle being moved to the side Altar
8. Catholic Church supporting Illegal Aliens and violate U.S. laws

I could go on and on and on if you like. Just think I haven’t got to view on faith yet…

Have a great day.

Frank J

Man I’m not even Catholic & see little wrong with any of this?

Churches are supposed to support the meek – I’m thinking illegal aliens are about as meek as it gets? Nuns can’t wear jeans? Jesus man you’re a harsh one. Alter girls are sinful … gosh? Jazz music (even though I’m no Jazz fan) – what’s so bad about Jazz music?

The word Pharisee comes to mind?

 

[sola_scriptura]

Yes. I meant that Catholic theology is less “seeker friendly” than a lot of what shows up in the Protestant world. For example, verybody knows the Church considers contraception a deadly sin. Ditto abortion. And we hold all those quaint old ideas like Ordination may validly be conferred only on men. . . .

We scare people because everybody knows these things but nobody has ever connected the dots so that people understand how and why these things are seen as they are. The words “natural law” are virtually nonexistent in the ambient culture.

There’s many protestant churches that are equally conservative – but indeed we are more, I guess, “seeker friendly” (not that the RCC is seeker unfriendly though, I’ve been to Catholic mass & never felt unwelcome).

My own denomination has not ordained a female pastor; but I’m not sure how I feel about it? Paul did say that he would not let a woman teach to him – and dictated a rather meager role for women in the scheme of things. This sort of male dominance was central to Middle Eastern culture.

No wonder this was an alien concept to Northern Europeans. In battle against the Romans (led by their great General Marcius) the barbarian women would come out of their homes during battle and themselves engage the Roman soldiers. Their women were fierce warriors – not to be underestimated (although – of course Marcius still beat the barbarians – although he later became rather corrupt himself).

Then there’s the Viking women – indeed such a meager role for women is alien to Scandinavians; they’ve always had a very equal system in terms of gender (dating back to ancient times). You might say they’re are the prototype for the womens rights.

So this is more of a cultural nuance. One of these days I do want to explore this topic deeper. I admit I don’t like the idea of denying women a Pastoral role, but I also struggle with the fact that the words of Paul are pretty clear (and after all, I am sola_scriptura)

 

[mercygate]

There’s many protestant churches that are equally conservative – but indeed we are more, I guess, “seeker friendly” (not that the RCC is seeker unfriendly though, I’ve been to Catholic mass & never felt unwelcome).

My own denomination has not ordained a female pastor; but I’m not sure how I feel about it? Paul did say that he would not let a woman teach to him – and dictated a rather meager role for women in the scheme of things. This sort of male dominance was central to Middle Eastern culture.

LOL. Come to think of it, while Paul did not allow women to teach in church, he wouldn’t let anybody else tell him what to do either. Remember how he brags about confronting Peter “to his face” about not eating with the Gentiles – but in deference to the same pressure, he has Timothy circumcised? As a priest I know once said: “We have these two letters to the Corinthians, but we don’t have the letters they wrote back!”

BTW, there are plenty of pastoral roles for women, even in places where they are not ordained. For Catholics, of course, the whole priesthood thing kicks this up another notch and it isn’t the same question at all.

 

[sola_scriptura]

LOL. Come to think of it, while Paul did not allow women to teach in church, he wouldn’t let anybody else tell him what to do either. Remember how he brags about confronting Peter “to his face” about not eating with the Gentiles – but in deference to the same pressure, he has Timothy circumcised? As a priest I know once said: “We have these two letters to the Corinthians, but we don’t have the letters they wrote back!”

BTW, there are plenty of pastoral roles for women, even in places where they are not ordained. For Catholics, of course, the whole priesthood thing kicks this up another notch and it isn’t the same question at all.

Indeed – well stated. I think that Paul was dealing with some very contentious issues, especially with the Corinthians (and Ephesians). Here were a people freshly converted from paganism. Imagine Ephesus during the time of Paul – with that giant statute of Diana (or Artemis) – at that time considered the eighth wonder of the world. The idea of women sitting silent during a worship service must have been alien to these people.

However, Paul did have some women as disciples, so I can see where some get mixed signals. It get the feeling that there were some very spunky women in those early Christian communities, whose customs were very different than the very conservative mindset of Paul.

However, if God wished to allow women to serve as Priests or Pastors I firmly believe the Holy Spirit would have inspired the authors of the New Testament to make it clear to us. Therefore, as much as it might go against my American ideals – God said it so I obey it, simple.

Blessings

 

[Janet_S]

My own denomination has not ordained a female pastor; but I’m not sure how I feel about it? Paul did say that he would not let a woman teach to him – and dictated a rather meager role for women in the scheme of things. This sort of male dominance was central to Middle Eastern culture.

I’ve heard the explanation for why Catholics don’t have women priestessses, but it’s not based on what Paul said about women teachers. The Catholic explanation is (quickly summed up)-- Jesus established an all-male priesthood when he chose 12 male Apostles, and the Church has no right to change it. Also, since the priest stands in the place of Christ during the sacraments, he must be a male, since Christ was a male, the bridegroom, and his bride is the Church. Maleness and femaleness are real qualities with real differences, though our modern culture often doesn’t acknowledge it. The Church does, though, and the priest, as an icon of Christ, must be male.

CS Lewis wrote an article that explains the Catholic position pretty well, though he wasn’t a Catholic. “Priestesses in the Church?”
acahome.org/submenu/docs/cslewis.htm

 

[sola_scriptura]

I’ve heard the explanation for why Catholics don’t have women priestessses, but it’s not based on what Paul said about women teachers. The Catholic explanation is (quickly summed up)-- Jesus established an all-male priesthood when he chose 12 male Apostles, and the Church has no right to change it. Also, since the priest stands in the place of Christ during the sacraments, he must be a male, since Christ was a male, the bridegroom, and his bride is the Church. Maleness and femaleness are real qualities with real differences, though our modern culture often doesn’t acknowledge it. The Church does, though, and the priest, as an icon of Christ, must be male.

CS Lewis wrote an article that explains the Catholic position pretty well, though he wasn’t a Catholic. “Priestesses in the Church?”
acahome.org/submenu/docs/cslewis.htm

Interesting. In more conservative protestant circles it is Paul’s letter to Timothy that is the real basis behind our prohibition on female pastors. However, the Catholic explanation seems to make sense as well?

 

[mercygate]

Indeed – well stated. I think that Paul was dealing with some very contentious issues, especially with the Corinthians (and Ephesians). Here were a people freshly converted from paganism. Imagine Ephesus during the time of Paul – with that giant statute of Diana (or Artemis) – at that time considered the eighth wonder of the world. The idea of women sitting silent during a worship service must have been alien to these people.

However, Paul did have some women as disciples, so I can see where some get mixed signals. It get the feeling that there were some very spunky women in those early Christian communities, whose customs were very different than the very conservative mindset of Paul.

However, if God wished to allow women to serve as Priests or Pastors I firmly believe the Holy Spirit would have inspired the authors of the New Testament to make it clear to us. Therefore, as much as it might go against my American ideals – God said it so I obey it, simple.

Blessings

LOL. You and the Pope!

 

[maize]

Of course you can’t “live up to” the Catholic faith. Nobody can.

But it’s not the Catholic Church we are “living up to.” It is Jesus Christ. Anybody who thinks he can live fully in Christ under his own power needs a reality check. Christ does not call us to live a human and natural life; Christ calls us to a supernatural life. For that, we need supernatural grace.

The Catholic Church differs from some other Christian expressions in that it does not mitigate or conceal what it takes to live in a manner consistent with life in Christ. There’s no way to water this down and still have it be genuine.

you are right, thanks for your words.

after a bad week and a crisis of faith, im back on the road to conversion.

 

[mercygate]

you are right, thanks for your words.

after a bad week and a crisis of faith, im back on the road to conversion.

Big :hug3:

 

[Filius99993]

you are right, thanks for your words.

after a bad week and a crisis of faith, im back on the road to conversion.

I hate weeks like that. I experienced a particularly bad such week this February.

Glad to have you back.

 

[Greg27]

Clearly people have their reasons for leaving or joining the church. In some cases it may be particular unpleasant experiences in relation to the church or its members and ministers, and in other cases, it may be an inability to agree or conform to the church’s teaching in some area. More likely, it is a combination of several different factors and events that influence one’s conscience strongly enough to resolve firmly that one does not belong to the church anymore, or believe in what it teaches and preaches. When the term ‘Catholic’ comes to mind and you think of yourself as not belonging to the community that the term ‘Catholic’ signifies, I think it makes sense to speak of yourself as being non-Catholic and lapsed, regardless of the reasons you came to that point, and regardless of the Catholic principle that ‘once a Catholic, always a Catholic.’

 

[FreedomLiberal6]

I have been raised a catholic but over time I have realized many things. The catholic church has been nothing but corrupt since day one(not quite literally). For hundreds of years Catholics oppressed many peasants and were the rich and educated. No one contradicted the church because most could not read or right and the church was to powerful much like a tyranny.The catholic church was the only place in Europe to keep information so they could corrupt things to any extent. The catholic church was also adopted by Romans for the reason to keep a power control over there people who where losing there faith in old gods exp.Zeus,Mars, and such.

~Peace~

 

[mercygate]

I have been raised a catholic but over time I have realized many things. The catholic church has been nothing but corrupt since day one(not quite literally). For hundreds of years Catholics oppressed many peasants and were the rich and educated. No one contradicted the church because most could not read or right and the church was to powerful much like a tyranny.The catholic church was the only place in Europe to keep information so they could corrupt things to any extent. The catholic church was also adopted by Romans for the reason to keep a power control over there people who where losing there faith in old gods exp.Zeus,Mars, and such.

~Peace~

Point taken.

 

[Believe_85]

I have been raised a catholic but over time I have realized many things. The catholic church has been nothing but corrupt since day one(not quite literally). For hundreds of years Catholics oppressed many peasants and were the rich and educated. No one contradicted the church because most could not read or right and the church was to powerful much like a tyranny.The catholic church was the only place in Europe to keep information so they could corrupt things to any extent. The catholic church was also adopted by Romans for the reason to keep a power control over there people who where losing there faith in old gods exp.Zeus,Mars, and such.

~Peace~

Boy, where have you learned your history??!

 

[mercygate]

Boy, where have you learned your history??!

From the same place where he learned to “read and right.”

 

[estesbob]

I have been raised a catholic but over time I have realized many things. The catholic church has been nothing but corrupt since day one(not quite literally). For hundreds of years Catholics oppressed many peasants and were the rich and educated. No one contradicted the church because most could not read or right and the church was to powerful much like a tyranny.The catholic church was the only place in Europe to keep information so they could corrupt things to any extent. The catholic church was also adopted by Romans for the reason to keep a power control over there people who where losing there faith in old gods exp.Zeus,Mars, and such.

~Peace~

This post is so is so devoid of any factual information that one wonders if the person posting it meant it to to be a satire.

 

[estesbob]

Boy, where have you learned your history??!

For a post like that you don’t have to learn any history. You just make it up as you go along.

 

[Believe_85]

For a post like that you don’t have to learn any history. You just make it up as you go along.

In his other post he says he’s in high school, so unless he’s a troll, maybe we should cut him some slack

 

[FreedomLiberal6]

This post is so is so devoid of any factual information that one wonders if the person posting it meant it to to be a satire.

Haha the very opposite my friend but you have your right to disagree