Im no longer going to be a Catholic

[Cinette]

im not going to become a catholic anymore. i just cant live up to it.

Just being Christian is hard enough, so what are your plans?

 

[Cinette]

Hi

You and the question why I’m no longer going a Catholic.

That is easy one to state and I will list them.

1.Turning the Altar around and making a table of it. “Quoting Pope Pius XXll”
2. Altar girls
3. Jazz Mass
4. Novus Ordo Mass
5. Nuns nolong wearing religionist vestments.
6. Left wing Bishop
7. Tabernacle being moved to the side Altar
8. Catholic Church supporting Illegal Aliens and violate U.S. laws

I could go on and on and on if you like. Just think I haven’t got to view on faith yet…

Have a great day.

Frank J

I understand you BUT…Is there no Jesus?

The reason why the Tabernacle was moved to the side Altar was so that the Priest would not turn his back on Jesus during Mass.
I also asked the question.

I don’t think you make a valid case but this is your choice.

 

[Cinette]

well – what about cause & effect? In other words doesn’t every event or action have a preceding cause? Maybe you’ve already taken physics & have learned that for every action there is a reaction – and inversely every action has a preceding cause.

Now science thinks the universe began with a big explosion (the big bang). This means the universe is not infinite – it had a beginning (so much has pretty much been proven – I’m sure you’ve learned this stuff already).

Science also believes that if you reverse the big bang the universe collapses into essentially nothing. Some say it collapses into an infinitely small but unimaginably dense particle of matter (that would be invisible to the eye). However, when they crunch the numbers it doesn’t shake out exactly (if I remember right they wind up with these probability solutions that put the probability at more than 100% which of course means it must be wrong – like when they try to conflate relativity with quantum mechanics) . So for all intents and purposes we can say it pretty much collapses into nothing.

So from nothing came everything. If the physical laws of the universe demands that every event has a preceding cause – but yet we started from nothing – then what caused our universe?

We know it seems like nothing – but we also know it can’t be nothing (because everything requires causation). So would you say there’s absolutely no possibility there could be some sort of divine force, say a God, who created this universe?

My daughters are married - pity!

 

[seeker777]

What I can’t understand are all the cafeteria Catholics who hate the Church and hate what it teaches and stay in anyway.

Likely because that’s all they know, they’ve been going their entire lives and they only attend on holidays, so it’s just not a big deal for them.

They might also be scared to leave, having been taught that for Catholics, there’s no salvation outside the Church.

I too do not understand why someone would choose too worship where they disagree with so many of the teachings or where they are miserable.

 

[Cinette]

Likely because that’s all they know, they’ve been going their entire lives and they only attend on holidays, so it’s just not a big deal for them.

They might also be scared to leave, having been taught that for Catholics, there’s no salvation outside the Church.

I too do not understand why someone would choose too worship where they disagree with so many of the teachings or where they are miserable.

I left the Church for 27 years and then one day I came back - just like that. I am convinced now that it was the H Spirit who led me.

I realised that I did not really know my faith before. Now I am learning every day something more and I find it so exciting. I believe and trust that Jesus kept his promise that He would be with us always and that the H Spirit would guide us. I believe in the Church, the Pope and the Magisterium and I feel a certain comfort that I can always look for guidance from the Church.

I fight like cat and dog if something is not right and I argue sometimes and get my answers.

We are not perfect but at least we know that we have the deposit of faith and if we come across a priest who is not “kosher” we can rectify this - just go to another parish. We were in a Parish with a “marvellous” Priest and I loved him - I could not conceive of the thought that I may have to leave the Parish. The parishioners respond and are devout and he the priest is popular but with time and as my faith developed I found myself becoming more orthodox in my approach and we decided to move to another parish.

We actually have two parishes - one during the week and the other on week-ends. The latter is a Jesuit Parish and the young priests are on fire and are more conservative. I never imagines that I could ever approve of anyone conservative. I guess that what it is that I like is that there should be no compromise.

We live in the information age. We have access to so much information. Even with the Doctors - in the old days they would give some pills and/or injection and never felt it necessary to explain. Not today. We have more enquiring minds and keep doctors and priests on their toes.

Well that’s my contribution to this thread for now.

 

[maize]

Just being Christian is hard enough, so what are your plans?

see post #306

 

[Cinette]

see post #306

Bravo! :yup:

 

[a_cermak]

You can’t be serious. Zoning and abortion–there’s no comparison. The Church doesn’t have an official stand on zoning. Some issues are absolutely contrary to the faith, and abortion–the killing of an innocent human being-- is one of them. Would it be okay for a Catholic to vote for a racist segregationists? To me, voting for a racist or voting for a pro-abortion politician would be the same thing.

But, if you don’t believe in the Church, at least you’re honest about it and leave. What I can’t understand are all the cafeteria Catholics who hate the Church and hate what it teaches and stay in anyway.

What if a vote came up that involved our local abortion clinic and it’s zoning? Or Planned Parenthood’s zoning variance for parking expansion (they don’t do abortions at that location–just ABC)? Or one of our Catholic Church’s zoning? Honestly, I saw it as making an impediment between me and my voting conscience, therefore becoming an item between me and my constituents. I honestly believe in We the people being the basis of all of our laws and politics. I am a child of the enlightenment first and foremost. That alone would tend to mitigate against me remaining a Catholic.

 

[mercygate]

I am a child of the enlightenment first and foremost. That alone would tend to mitigate against me remaining a Catholic.

That is a rational position. If the “Enlightenment” is your “first and foremost” allegiance (God help you) then Christianity in any meaningful form, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant really cannot be part of your baggage.

 

[sola_scriptura]

That is a rational position. If the “Enlightenment” is your “first and foremost” allegiance (God help you) then Christianity in any meaningful form, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant really cannot be part of your baggage.

I tend to agree with you in principal (it’s sort silly for any Christian to think the principals of the enlightenment somehow override our faith).

If any enlightenment figure abrogated a single word found between Genesis and Revelation – then they were a heretic … period! Many of them were Christians, though some weren’t (or were at least agnostic).

As for me – I’m a “child of God”

As for any church that abrogates scripture – they are also heretical. Some churches think they may invent their own rules, whether it’s venerating images or icons, or daring to anoint a homosexual heathen as a minister in the house of God.

However, God’s elect will never fooled.

 

[seeker777]

However, God’s elect will never fooled.

Are you talking about the Hindu’s, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Christians, the Jews, the Sikh’s or another faith group?

 

[sola_scriptura]

Are you talking about the Hindu’s, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Christians, the Jews, the Sikh’s or another faith group?

The Christians and Jews were the only ones ever elected by God!

 

[Thing]

…As for any church that abrogates scripture – they are also heretical. Some churches think they may invent their own rules, whether it’s venerating images or icons, …, God’s elect will never fooled.

God is a heretic…interesting idea, don’t think it will catch on though.

He designed the ark of the covenant … cherubim (images ) … Himself. His rules.

Catholic churches follow His lead with cherubim, angels, saints (who are honoured (venerated) because they are His friends and they point us by their example of friendship with Him, to Him) etc. etc. all of this bringing the focus onto the Tabernacle, in which He dwells…

Anyway you know all this

 

[sola_scriptura]

God is a heretic…interesting idea, don’t think it will catch on though.

where did I say such a thing? I never did, yet you slander me. Slanders and gossips are an aberration to God, so I would implore you to examine yourself before judging others.

He designed the ark of the covenant … cherubim (images ) … Himself. His rules.

Catholic churches follow His lead with cherubim, angels, saints (who are honoured (venerated) because they are His friends and they point us by their example of friendship with Him, to Him) etc. etc. all of this bringing the focus onto the Tabernacle, in which He dwells…

Anyway you know all this

Yes God designed the Ark & commanded us NOT to unilaterally create images for use in worship. Show me where any Catholic source claims God spoke to church leaders & instructed the church to create images for use in worship? Let me save you the time – you won’t find one.

 

[Thing]

Let me paraphrase you;

…they are also heretical… [who] …venerate images or icons…

The ark and its decorative images were designed by God.
The ark was so holy nobody could touch it without falling dead immediately.

The ark was treated by the people with the greatest respect [veneration] [honour] … and care.

I’m assuming the designers of heretical images are themselves also heretics.

Those are your words, resolve them as you will…

 

[sola_scriptura]

Let me paraphrase you;

slandering and paraphrasing are two different words – perhaps you skipped that class?

…they are also heretical… [who] …venerate images or icons…

yes

The ark and its decorative images were designed by God.
The ark was so holy nobody could touch it without falling dead immediately.

God commanded US not to UNILATERALLY create images for use in worship. However, GOD also commanded the Jews to build the Ark for use in their atonement ritual (it was kept in the sanctuary and not venerated per se, but that’s another issue).

So WE may not created images or anything UNLESS God commands us to for some reason.

The ark was treated by the people with the greatest respect [veneration] [honour] … and care.

I’m assuming the designers of heretical images are themselves also heretics.

Those are your words, resolve them as you will…

These are not my words – rather under the fallacious banner of “paraphrasing” you slander my words and present your own convoluted nexus between the Ark and veneration of icons.

It’s a favorite Roman pastime to use the Ark for all sorts of bizarre typologies. I’m aware of them all & your sophistry will not sway me.

 

[Thing]

Yes God designed the Ark & commanded us NOT to unilaterally create images for use in worship. Show me where any Catholic source claims God spoke to church leaders & instructed the church to create images for use in worship? Let me save you the time – you won’t find one.

The Temple [the place man built for God to reside in] was extensively decorated with images;

homepage.ntlworld.com/ritmeyer/Cibachromes.html
myjewishlearning.com/culture/Art/TO_ArtOverview/ArtHistory/JewishArtAncient.htm
jewish-art.org/ancient-jewish-art.html

 

[Thing]

hahaha… make your mind up.

you:

me:

…they are also heretical… [who] …venerate images or icons…

yes

you:

These are not my words –

But read the links above, they’re very interesting.

 

[sola_scriptura]

The Temple [the place man built for God to reside in] was extensively decorated with images;

homepage.ntlworld.com/ritmeyer/Cibachromes.html
myjewishlearning.com/culture/Art/TO_ArtOverview/ArtHistory/JewishArtAncient.htm
jewish-art.org/ancient-jewish-art.html

God also commanded the Jews to destroy opposing armies (women and children included) under Saul.

Does this mean that we may go around slaughtering our enemies? Of course not – however, if God commands us to we must (or unless the war is in accordance with God’s law allowing for self-defense, even a preemptive war can be justified as a defensive tactic – of course as long as it really is a defensive tactic).

If we see a sick man dying on the Sabbath do we let him die or take him or her to the hospital? What would Jesus have done? We know what He would have done because He healed the sick on the Sabbath.

The Ark was not made for veneration or worship – even to touch the Ark meant death. It was where the covenant of God was kept and where the blood of the Yom Kippur sacrifices were sprinkled until the coming of the Messiah. So there isn’t even any valid parallel between the Ark and the use of icons – and even if there were it doesn’t matter.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luck]

The 1st century church was “full gospel” the present day Catholic Church is not. There are many, many other distinctions that prove Catholicism lacks the fullness of faith.

Out of curiosity, like what? The statement seems to be a bit vague.