I'm not a Catholic because

[Whadyamean]

As Catholics we defend the Faith the way it was handed down to us from Christ through the Apostles to the best of our ability. We pray for enlightenment for ourselves and others.

The praying is very admirable and may be useful.It is the “hand(ing) down to us from Christ through the Apostles to the best of our ability” that is of concern. Given the ideas of say the discipline of general semantics, we know tthat everything from witnessing, through collecting, translation, interpretation, building a canon, etc, etc, is an exceptionally chancy matter not unlike the game of “telephone” as played by children, all genuine sincerity, good intention, devotion, etc., aside. So even if there is a skeleton of truth referring to actuality, what that actuality is may be functionally distorted even by a slight deviation.

We do not go by our own understanding. We seek, always, the Truth of God.Which again must be done by anyone of Faith or Knowledge.

But “Faith” necessarily has a factor of ignorance, culpable or not, that renders it incomplete. So again, while devotion and piety are necessary and useful, it may not be wise to claim, as some seem to on here, that their,or the Church’s knowledge is whole or complete. And even if it is Truly sanctioned, there is yet the factor of interpretation, as a purely "spiritual’ transmission is yet interpreted at the level of understanding of the mind(s) doing the “interpreting.”

We stand corrected when we get off track and make mistakes.

This is sound teleology, somewhat difficult for some folks to deal with. Again, I am reminded of the (true) story of the woman who refused to learn a new language because “God writ the Bible in English, so that’s good enough for me!”

We always go back to the beginning of the New Covenant to be reminded of the Truth.

A friend of mine said “The purpose of repetition is penetration.” no better activity can be had than deeply examining the New Covenant and its implications, even beyond what we might ordinarily consider.

I like to recommend a book of simplicity about early Church fathers, Four Witnesses ,author Rod Bennett, Ignatius press. Peace, Carlan

That is great, as long as we remember that even Eusebius admitted that in his “history” he embellished what made the Church look good, and diminished that which didn’t.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by Carlan: As Catholics we defend the Faith the way it was handed down to us from Christ through the Apostles to the best of our ability. We pray for enlightenment for ourselves and others.

REPLY By Whadyamean
The praying is very admirable and may be useful.It is the “hand(ing) down to us from Christ through the Apostles to the best of our ability” that is of concern. Given the ideas of say the discipline of general semantics, we know that everything from witnessing, through collecting, translation, interpretation, building a canon, etc, etc, is an exceptionally chancy matter not unlike the game of “telephone” as played by children, all genuine sincerity, good intention, devotion, etc., aside. So even if there is a skeleton of truth referring to actuality, what that actuality is may be functionally distorted even by a slight deviation.

My Response PJM

Actually it is not chancy at all. WHY? Because the claim of 2 Tim. 3:13-17 must be true or there is ZERO value to the bible.

One must never overlook the FACT that Jesus Himself warrants, guides, and protects the teachings of the CC; the Pope and the Magesterium Both out of God’s Desire to do so and because it is a ABSOLUTE necessity that he, God do so.

I do not claim that this or that translation can’t be in error; BUT ONLY that the Church; The Pope and the Magesterium cannot be in error. One must acknowledge that significant difference.

Matt.10: 1 -8 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity.
[2] The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother; … These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, … And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
***Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without ***paying, give without pay.

**Jn.4:16-17 “And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.’ THIS IS FULFILLED IN Jn.20:21-22 [Pentecost Sunday] “[21] Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." **And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.”

And ONLY Christ CC has Jesus Himself as the warranty of her Teaching without EVEN A POSSIILITY of error on All matters of Faith to be believed by All, and ALL moral matters. Jn.17: 17-19 “Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.”

One MUST assume that a Bible approved by the CC is completely true, even if not always factual.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[CMatt25]

“Faith” necessarily has a factor of ignorance, culpable or not, that renders it incomplete. So again, while devotion and piety are necessary and useful, it may not be wise to claim, as some seem to on here, that their,or the Church’s knowledge is whole or complete.

That is great, as long as we remember that even Eusebius admitted that in his “history” he embellished what made the Church look good, and diminished that which didn’t.

Expect someone to say all in which God has revealed through the Catholic faith is truth. But not necessarily that everything has been wholly or completely revealed. Or something like that. I’ve been down the “definition of faith” path.

 

[1voice]

Why are you not a Catholic?

I have a deep, abiding, personal relationship with Christ. He never told me that I need to become a member of any specific denominational expression of Christianity.
I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I attend a Church that adheres to Biblical Christianity and the basic truth that we must be salt and light and be transformed through the renewing of the mind … by the washing of God’s word.

 

[Carlan]

Expect someone to say all in which God has revealed through the Catholic faith is truth. But not necessarily that everything has been wholly or completely revealed. Or something like that. I’ve been down the “definition of faith” path.

What do you mean Matt? who said , not necessarily everything has been wholly or completely revealed. I thought revelation ended with the death of Saint John.
Peace, CArlan

 

[PJM]

=1voice;8751554]I have a deep, abiding, personal relationship with Christ. He never told me that I need to become a member of any specific denominational expression of Christianity.

I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I attend a Church that adheres to Biblical Christianity and the basic truth that we must be salt and light and be transformed through the renewing of the mind … by the washing of God’s word.

***Actually my friend he did and has.

NOT one place in the entire Bible does God permit or tolerate ANY faith beliefs otherthan His One set; that he has intrusted along with the Keys to Heaven; St. Peter and todays CC. Nor has God ever allowed anyone to choose HOW they would, or would NOT Worship and Obey Him.

Does you’re church Understand and ACCEPT the real Presence? The Absolutely necessary Sacrament of Confession for actual FORGIVNESS of sin? Or the primacy of peter and the CC? ALL of these are biblically proveable, so you’t can’t ACTUALLY be a bible-believing-church without accepting these and other teachings.***

Because of space limitations I can’t share the entire story here, but IF you’re actually seeking the truth, send me a Private Message and we can discuss it further.

If you’re NOT afraid of THEE Truth send me a private message.

God Bless you,
Pat [FYI: I’m the OP of this thread]
PJM on this Forum
Pat

 

[xyzzjp]

because most catholics do not sin in fear of redemption.
and this religion does very little to satisfy my 21-year old hermonal needs.
If I do not live my life according to catholic rules I will go to hell although I try my best to help all around me. that’s not right.
Happy new year!

 

[Bev17243]

I have a deep, abiding, personal relationship with Christ. He never told me that I need to become a member of any specific denominational expression of Christianity.
I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I attend a Church that adheres to Biblical Christianity and the basic truth that we must be salt and light and be transformed through the renewing of the mind … by the washing of God’s word.

sorry, friend but if you actually spoke with Jesus, and have a deep personal relationship with him, he seem to forgot to tell you that church is the pillar and foundation of truth. And how do you know that YOUR church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the one on the next street over, cause I’m sure they are thinking the same thing about themselves
I’m not trying to make fun actually because I used to attend same kind of church that you attend now. Then, I read history of Christianity and everything changed. You might want to do the same. I have a feeling you might be afraid though because your beliefs in everything will be challenged

 

[fbl9]

**because most catholics do not sin in fear of redemption.**and this religion does very little to satisfy my 21-year old hermonal needs.
If I do not live my life according to catholic rules I will go to hell although I try my best to help all around me. that’s not right.
Happy new year!

Welcome to the forums xyzzjp
i don’t understand what you mean (section i bolded)
i can’t think of any other christian denomination meeting these needs either
but you are not helping yourself when you satisfy these needs.

 

[1voice]

And how do you know that YOUR church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the one on the next street over, cause I’m sure they are thinking the same thing about themselves

The pillar and foundation of truth is God’s word… in the Bible. “Be transformed by the renewing if your mind through the washing of God’s word.”

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The pillar and foundation of truth is God’s word… in the Bible. “Be transformed by the renewing if your mind through the washing of God’s word.”

Interesting quote --who is the author?

It still puzzles me that if the pillar and foundation of truth is God’s word ‘in the Bible’ the Bible itself doesn’t actually say so, but some ‘anonymous’ quote does. . .

 

[Whadyamean]

Actually it is not chancy at all. WHY? Because the claim of 2 Tim. 3:13-17 must be true or there is ZERO value to the bible.

 

[Bev17243]

The pillar and foundation of truth is God’s word… in the Bible. “Be transformed by the renewing if your mind through the washing of God’s word.”

Wrong again, brother. In order to understand what I just wrote you have to know the history. At the time of Jesus and the Apostles, there was NO Bible. The only thing in existence was the Old Testament. The passage that I quoted come from New Testament which haven’t been compiled yet(and wouldn’t be until several hundred years later).

So the passages that you are talking about are not refering to the Bible in any way, shape or form. Church of Jesus has existed already but sorry, there is nothing in the Bible that says that “Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth”. It always refers to the Church and you are ignoring this passage- 1 Timothy 3:15"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth". Where does it say that pillar and ground of truth is the Bible?
Church is the AUTHORITY:thumbsup:

 

[Bev17243]

Interesting quote --who is the author?

It still puzzles me that if the pillar and foundation of truth is God’s word ‘in the Bible’ the Bible itself doesn’t actually say so, but some ‘anonymous’ quote does. . .

I would love to know too where this quote is found in the Bible.

 

[PRmerger]

I have a deep, abiding, personal relationship with Christ.

Of that I have no doubt, 1voice.

However, what you are lacking is the the most intimate of unions with Christ–the One Flesh Union of the Eucharist.

It is like having a deep, abiding, personal relationship with your beloved, but not being able to consummate this love.

 

[1voice]

Interesting quote --who is the author?

Romans 12: 1-2
do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect
will of God.

Ephesians 5: 26-27
So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word.

It still puzzles me that if the pillar and foundation of truth is God’s word ‘in the Bible’ the Bible itself doesn’t actually say so,

Matt 24: 35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Psalm 138:2
for you have exalted your Word above all your name

Psalm 119:89
Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.

 

[PRmerger]

]The poster said that she was not about to live with her husband as brother and sister. That sounds unrepentant. But I also see in her posts a great deal of sorrow.

Indeed. And if she is unrepentant, and has no desire to “go and sin no more”, then, sadly, she cannot receive Him.

That is what Jesus has said, and we cannot edit His message, even if we would love to change it to make it more to our liking.

I know that if I were in charge this would be my decree: anyone who wants to come and receive Him can and should!

But, alas, I am not in charge.

And it is a most trenchant observation that the fact that my hypothetical decree does not agree with what God has decreed tells me that I am in the right Church.

For if all my hypothetical decrees are the same as the church of my choice, then, well, it is the church of the Almighty Self that I’ve joined, no?

 

[PRmerger]

Romans 12: 1-2
do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect
will of God.

Ephesians 5: 26-27
So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word.

Matt 24: 35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Psalm 138:2
for you have exalted your Word above all your name

Psalm 119:89
Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.

Did you forget this one:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Tim 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[PRmerger]

As Catholics we defend the Faith the way it was handed down to us from Christ through the Apostles to the best of our ability. We pray for enlightenment for ourselves and others.
We do not go by our own understanding. We seek, always, the Truth of God.
We stand corrected when we get off track and make mistakes.
We always go back to the beginning of the New Covenant to be reminded of the Truth.
I like to recommend a book of simplicity about early Church fathers, Four Witnesses ,author Rod Bennett, Ignatius press. Peace, Carlan

:clapping:

 

[PRmerger]

Many would argue that if you lie to priest about your sorrow (and I’m not sure that it is even possible to make such a lie),

Of course it’s possible to make such a lie.

then the absolution is invalid and lost.

Sure. Doesn’t that make sense? Even out of the confessional reason dictates that if you apologize to your friend and receive her forgiveness, but you absolutely did not mean a single word of your apology, your friend’s forgiveness is false and invalid.