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MrS
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And when he came down from the mountain the first time, he witnessed the original "Liturgy in the Round"smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif
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Lisa4Catholics
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Isn’t that the truth
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rschermer2
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You mean there’s a church on earth that claims it is the way the truth and life? Which one is that? I’ve never heard of it before. It must be one more of those obscure evangelical type church’s
RS
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Catholic4aReasn
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Hi Angainor!
Christ is the way the truth and the life. How interesting that you’ve come to believe that the Church makes this claim for herself. How have you come to believe that?
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
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Hi Angainor!
Angainor:
*Acts 5:38-39 * if this plan or this undertaking is of human origin, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them—in that case you may even be found fighting against God!"
In Christ,
Nancy
You certainly have a lot of interesting ideas about the Church. Where’d you get the idea that the Church wishes to put herself between you and you salvation?
Where did you get the idea that the Church teaches that the pope has authority over anyone’s soul?
The Catholic Church is an institution full of humans but established by God:
*Acts 5:38-39 * if this plan or this undertaking is of human origin, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them—in that case you may even be found fighting against God!"
In Christ,
Nancy
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Katholikos
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Oh, really. A Church that was founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D. has no more validity than one founded in the 21st century?
Yeah, sure, that’s exactly what the Catholic Church wishes to do – come between you and your salvation. Atta boy! (or girl).
These are the inflammatory arguments of a rabid anti-Catholic. They’re just plain riduculous.
Even when they’re divinely protected and guided? Was Jesus lying when He said He would be with the Church always (Mt 28:20) and that “the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Mt 16:18-19)? Did He mean it when he promised that the Holy Spirit would be with the Apostles (and their successors) always (Jn 14:16-18) and that the
Spirit would teach them everything and remind them of what He had taught them (Jn 14:26)? And guide them to all truth (Jn 16:7-13)?
Was He lying when he said the Church speaks for Him, and that to reject the Church is to reject Him? (Luke 10:16)
Well, you have rejected Him!
Did God ever abandon Israel because she strayed? Church members can sin, but the Church is holy and without blemish (Eph 5:27). The Church is a hospital for sinners and a school for saints.
I would call you anti-Catholic. You, who claimed you weren’t protesting anything, have taken a whack at my Mother – Holy Mother Church – without knowing the slightest thing about what she teaches.
Stick around, open your eyes and heart, and learn a little something about Whom you’re attacking. The Church was founded by Christ for the salvation of the world and is an extension of Himself, His dwelling place; it is the “household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Tm 3:15). The Church is Christ’s Bride (Eph 5:25-33; 2 Cor 11:2, Rv 21:9-14, Rv 22:17). It is His very Body (Col 1:15-18, 1:24, 2:19; Eph 1:22-23, 4:4-7, 4:11-16, Rm 12:4-5, et al.).
Christ asked St. Paul, “why are your persecuting ME?” And, again, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.” Saul (Paul) was, of course, persecuting the Church (Acts 9:1-9). Jesus said that when the Church is persecuted, it is He who suffers.
JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
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MrS
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You’ve been on a journey, haven’t you. I guess I could be jealous of your experiences… but my own were enough of a burden. Welcome home.
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Catholic4aReasn
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Hi Angainor!
Angainor:
John 14:6 ** “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” “Catholicism”, as you say is “the Church”; “the Body of Christ”. We are saved by Jesus through his body. It’s all about Christ. It seems that you’ve been taught that we believe otherwise though.
John 8:32 you will know the truth
*John 8: 32 * and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
In Christ,
Nancy
Nah! Jesus is the only way to get to heaven:
John 14:6 ** “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” “Catholicism”, as you say is “the Church”; “the Body of Christ”. We are saved by Jesus through his body. It’s all about Christ. It seems that you’ve been taught that we believe otherwise though.
Where’d you get that idea?
The Church is of divine origin. God is the authority. You seem to have been taught otherwise though.
Rather it seems that each protestant claims authority for himself, each being able to decide for himself what’s true. Ultimately no Protestant can really be sure that he knows the truth, even though scripture tells us that truth is knowable:
John 8:32 you will know the truth
Why would Christ make truth the thing that sets us free when the best we can have is a mere attempt at discerning it?
*John 8: 32 * and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
This is one of the big differences between Catholics and Protestants. To Catholics the Church is the foundation of truth ( 1 Tim 3:15) and we accept what she teaches to be true. Protestants seem to see themselves as the foundation of the truth and so search for the church which most closely teaches what they believe to be true. The Protestant way seems backwards to me. JMHO
In Christ,
Nancy
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Katholikos
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What evidence do you have to substantiate this claim? The last Apostle alive was was St. John, who died about A.D. 100. His student, St, Ignatius of Antioch, referred to the Church founded by Christ as the Catholic Church in 107 (Letter to the Smyrnaeans). He was a student of St. John, was ordained by St. Peter, and was close friends with St. Paul. It is likely that the Apostles called the Church “Catholic” and that Ignatius learned the name from them.
There is not now and never was a catholic church. There is only the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and those splinters who broke away from Christ’s Body, based on the Bible only, all with different interpretations of that same Bible.
Luther invented new doctrines. He “found” Sola Fide in Romans – a complete innovation. It’s called “eisogesis” – reading doctrines into the Scriptures. He made no pretense of finding Sola Scriptura in Scripture – it isn’t there – he simply declared it to be true. When he wasn’t finding new doctrines in the Bible, he was busy cutting Scriptures out of it.
Who was the founder? When?
Did this catholic church give you a baptismal certificate?
Where are the headquarters of this catholic church?Who else is in this catholic church besides Lutherans? Do all the varous Lutheran churches believe this? An LCMS won’t darken the door of an ELCA, but they’re united in this catholic church? The church started by Luther had splintered within his lifetime and no longer exists. If I’m wrong, please tell me which Lutheran church was the original?
JMJ Jay
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Angainor
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This seems to be a reoccuring theme, and one I would like to clear up. Protestants don’t claim authority for themselves. God’s Word is its own authority.
If I may compare it to the Constitution of the USA: Some say the US Supreme Court has ultimate authority about what the Constitution says. If I speak up, from my small town in Michigan, and say “But there is no right to abortion in the Constitution!” I am not claiming authority upon myself. I am pointing out a Truth. The Constitution is its own authority, and there simply is no right to an abortion anywhere in there. The US Supreme Court does not have authority to declare the Constitution says whatever it wants it to say.
Protestants seek the Truth. Creeds and declarations of faith describe the Truth the best we know it. The Truth is its own authority.
True! Few people have ever been granted the gift of certain knowledge. Faith plays a role. God gave us His Word to show us the way. The Truth is also written in our hearts, very faintly.
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Katholikos
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Thank you! By the grace of our merciful God, who took pity on me when I was wallowing in the pig pen of atheism after escaping the illogical trap of Sola Scriptura, I’ve been Catholic for a while. And I’ve been delirious ever since! Inebriated with joy at finding the Truth! My conversion story is at www.chnetwork.org should you or anyone care to read it. Click on “conversion stories” at the home page, then scroll down to my name. PRAISE AND EXALT HIM FOREVER!
Jay Damien
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Angainor
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Well, I have to go to Mass, right? Mass has to be said by a Priest, right? That Priest has to be approved by the institution that is “The Catholic Church”, right? That Priest has to say all the right words that are approved by the institution that is “The Catholic Church”, or that Mass isn’t valid, right?
It seems no one comes to the Father but by the institution that is “The Catholic Church.”
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jimmy
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The word protestant is used because those churches are the result of the protestant reformation, which was a protest against the Catholic Church. I saw on your profile that you are Lutheran, which is what I would say to be the main Church of the protestants, since it was the first.
I don’t see why it is unappropriate.
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mercygate
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And the Church is the Body of Christ. Kind of inescapable logic. Once you understand that, to sidestep the consequences would be perverse. You seem to think there’s something wrong with the idea that Jesus has given us the Church.
BTW, who wrote those Creeds you Lutherans recite: the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds? Um. The Catholic Church.
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Angainor
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The catholic church is made up of the community of all true believers. I do not have a list of individual names. I do not claim that everyone who calls himself Lutheran is on the that list. I have no doubt Catholic names are on the list.
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Katholikos
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Again, Angainor, the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and is an extension of Him. It is through His Church that he chooses to abide in us and we in Him (Jn 6:56). Only through His Church can we (literally) touch Him and be touched by Him. He’s the one that planned it that way! He established the system.
JMJ Jay
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Katholikos
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The Bible is a collection of writings. Where’s is the God-given list of the writings that belong in the Bible?
Every Protestant is his own authority in interpreting the Bible – and of even deciding which writings should be included in the Bible! Your claims to the contrary, I know all Protestants state that their biblical interpretation is “true.” There are as many “truths” as there are denominations – thousands.
There are many “Bibles” – here’s a Methodist website that asks “Whose Bible? Which canon?”
gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/canon2.stm
If there is no absolute truth in religion, if it’s just multiple guess, lemme outta here! But there is – and it’s to be found only in the Catholic Church! So I’m staying! I’m like a tree planted near a river – Psalm 1.
JMJ Jay
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mercygate
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Could you help us understand how that works? I would expect some kind of corroboration before Truth could be recognized and validated.
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Angainor
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People keep saying things like that, but it isn’t so. Protestants seek to understand the Thruth the best they can.
Of course they think it is true, they wouldn’t believe it otherwise.
There is but one Truth, and we all seek to understand it the best we can.
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Angainor
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For me, I know Jesus was the Truth. Jesus tought the deciples. The deciples wrote The New Testament. The New Testament is the closest thing I am aware of to the Truth. That is why I look to it primarily.
But the New Testament is not always clear, of course. You would be right to look to some kind of corroboration.
No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briaers. Luke 6:43-44
Good fruit cannot come from false Truths. The fruit that comes from claims of truth are one way to evaluate truth.
Another way would be to constantly compare claims of truth to what we know in our hearts. We are not completely blind to truth. God gave us a conscience, even if its voice is often a whisper.
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