I'm not "protesting" anything...

[Angainor]

Fidelis:

Really? And just who has the authority to decide what things are more important than others? Unless the whole exercise is subjective which, of course, renders it meaningless.

Perhaps I didn’t think this quite through.

First of all, nobody decides what is most important, some things just are more important.

Second of all, “important” was a poor choice of words. All thruths are important. How about “essential”? Is sincere belief in purgatory essential for salvation?

 

[Katholikos]

Angainor:

Perhaps I didn’t think this quite through.

First of all, nobody decides what is most important, some things just are more important.

Second of all, “important” was a poor choice of words. All thruths are important. How about “essential”? Is sincere belief in purgatory essential for salvation?

It is for a Catholic. God revealed it, so we are expected to believe it. Jesus and the Apostles believed in Purgatory, so why wouldn’t we?

But the Catholic Church teaches that others may be saved.

Catechism of the Catholic Church 847 (in part) “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

One must be invincibly ignorant of the truth and necessity of the Catholic Faith in order to be saved outside the Church. After all, Christ founded the Church as an extension of Himself for the salvation of the world.

CCC 846 (in part) Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

“Essentials” is a nonsensical standard. For a Lutheran, Baptism is essential. For a Baptist (strangely enough) it is not. And that disparity holds true for every Christian doctrine – thousands of denominations, little agreement. Where is the list of “essentials” in the Bible for you Sola Scriptura believers? Who gets to choose the “essentials”?

There is within Catholicism, however, a hierarchy of beliefs, all of them equally true and therefore “essential,” but obviously the Trinity would rank higher than the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin.

JMJ Jay

 

[Robert_in_SD]

There’s a great article on the definition of the word “catholic” in this month’s issue of This Rock magazine that’s directly on point with the discussion here. In short, there was no “C”/“c” distinction made between the Catholic Church and the “catholic” church until quite recently. The idea of a “spiritual” catholic church waters down the whole concept of a truly universal catholic church and renders the phrase “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic” nearly meaningless. The term Catholic (“C” or “c”) refers to the physically present institution that was founded by Christ on Peter, and which is the only institution that has persisted without interruption through the ages just as He promised.

Just my two cents… :twocents:

Charity,

 

[Curious]

One must be invincibly ignorant of the truth and necessity of the Catholic Faith in order to be saved outside the Church. After all, Christ founded the Church as an extension of Himself for the salvation of the world.

What would happen if someone started doing their homework, learned a bunch about the Catholic Church, decided it was true, and still didn’t join? That sounds dumb, but I bet it happens…people afraid to join because of their families or friends, or have difficulty in letting go of their protestant stuff. But it’s an honest question. They wouldn’t be ignorant of the truth anymore. Would they be damned?

That’s disconcerting. Maybe ignorance really is bliss.

 

[Fidelis]

Angainor:

Perhaps I didn’t think this quite through.

First of all, nobody decides what is most important, some things just are more important.

Second of all, “important” was a poor choice of words. All thruths are important. How about “essential”? Is sincere belief in purgatory essential for salvation?

OK then, essential. Who has the authority to decide what things are essential and those things that are not? It is no use acknowledging that something is more essential than something else unless there is a way do decide what those things are. What is that way, and, more importantly, who decides?

 

[Courage_to_ride]

Angainer,

I am a fellow Michigander (stationed in Texas), former Free Methodist, Former Non-Denom and Former Lutheran. Basically, I was Protestant. THANKFULLY, I am now Catholic. I didn’t have all this animosity toward the Catholic Church that you seem to. I came for very simple reasons. I just wanted to participate in church with my wife, who is Catholic. RCIA was an enlightening experience for me. Once you put your wall down and listen, you will see the Truth.

Now I have seen quite a few Protestants come to this forum and get into “discussions” with the more experienced Catholics. Each and every time something is brought up, they say “I don’t believe that is the way it was”. Why not? It is clear as day. Then they switch to another “protest” with the Catholic Church. You started out this thread saying you weren’t protesting anything. Indeed you are my friend. The history of the Church may not impress you, but it should teach you. Many denominations claim they worship the way early Christians did. Prove it. The bottom line is that the Catholic Church has the authority to teach and preach the way early Christians did.

Stop following human doctrine and follow Jesus Christ’s doctrine. Come on in! We welcome you with open arms, minds and hearts!



God Bless

ck

 

[Angainor]

Courage_to_ride:

You started out this thread saying you weren’t protesting anything. Indeed you are my friend.

I did start out not protesting anything. I guess I had more on my mind than I thought.

Thank you for your patience.

 

[Courage_to_ride]

No problem, I am here for you man!

God Bless

ck

 

[Annunciata]

Angainor:

…but for the lack of a better term, you may call me Protestant.

Seriously though. Do you also think the term “Protestant” is just a left-over label that isn’t really appropriate in this day and age?

Well…when I was a Baptist I referred to myself as a Protestant…I didn’t know till I became a Catholic the meaning though…
Methinks I was protesting too much…

 

[Katholikos]

Curious:

What would happen if someone started doing their homework, learned a bunch about the Catholic Church, decided it was true, and still didn’t join? That sounds dumb, but I bet it happens…people afraid to join because of their families or friends, or have difficulty in letting go of their protestant stuff. But it’s an honest question. They wouldn’t be ignorant of the truth anymore. Would they be damned?

That’s disconcerting. Maybe ignorance really is bliss.

Here it is again, my e-friend:

Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 (in part) Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

It is better to obey God than to cave in to family or friends. Life on earth is short. Eternity is forever.

And besides all that, being Catholic is a wonderful, joyful way to view the world and to live. Receiving absolution for my sins and being able to receive the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist every Sunday – or even daily – are treasures beyond measure and joys beyond all telling. Now that’s true bliss.

Jay jumps in air, clicks heels together, and shouts, I LOVE THIS CHURCH!

:dancing:

 

[Malachi4U]

Angainor:

…but for the lack of a better term, you may call me Protestant.

Seriously though. Do you also think the term “Protestant” is just a left-over label that isn’t really appropriate in this day and age?

A group starts to protest the Iraq war. It is devoutly anti-War. If you join that group because you like their opinions and company and they have great theatre acts, speakers and social envents, does that make you a war protester? Does that make you anti-war?

A person does not believe in Satan. The person sins and is eventually judged by Jesus and sent to hell, the domain of Satan. Does that make the condemned a follower of Satan? A follower of Satans influence? A member of Satans band of brothers?

When you join a group you become affiliated with that groups identity. As a protestant you are protesting the Catholic Faith that Christ founded. You are protesting by your membership in a group founded on protest.

If the “RE”- formation was really founded to reform Christs one holy and apostolic Catholic Church, then why did they leave it? How can you reform a Church by dividing it? Does that mean that the North was wrong and the South was right in the Civil War? Should we allow the Confederacy to return since we wrongfully forced them to stay in our “UN”-reformed country? Were Southern Baptists right for splitting off to form a new Baptist sect in order to kep their slaves? Do Southern Baptist black Americans know that their sect started to preserve slavery?