I'm scared, really scared (afterlife?)

[Robert_Sock]

I will begin by saying how scared I really am.

So I was watching the disney movie “frozen” with my friend, and I can’t find but got hooked on it because of how beautiful it is. I watched it for many times until one day I realized :

“gosh, that’s an amazing story, and I’d bet many people in real life also have story like these or better, parental love, sibling love or romantic love is so beautiful I wish they last forever for those who find them”.

my life goal is to dedicate my life for those who find happiness, or to help others to find happiness, I’m an engineer and my goal is to work in the bio-mechanical field such as medical devices or prosthetics. I graduated a year ago and although I am working in a unrelated field, I believe it is my stepping stone to my life goal.

anyways, what has always kept me going is my belief that there’s an afterlife, that all good things can last forever or something even better will kick in, but as a man of science, I must also admit the fact that there are more scientific evidences suggesting that human consciousnesses is just a process of the brain and “I” don’t really exist. And there are really little evidences that show that afterlife, or soul exist.

throughout my life I have always been nourished by the faith of a loving God, an afterlife, yet recently I just go into this deep depression and fear of the oblivious. If nothing will last, why bother fighting? why bothering studying so hard or working so hard to make lives better? to help others to find happiness when nothingness is inevitable?

I am afraid of not being, I feel depressed because all good things will come to an end and everything I have ever done will be in vain, never in my life have I truly understand the fear for death, it is not because of the pain that you may endure, nor the uncertainty of what lies ahead, but the oblivion that awaits me ahead and “I” will no longer be.

Does anyone ever feel the same way? like ever?

I fear this life!!! I’m retired with very limited income, and homelessness is a possibility. I actually want to die, and I often pray that my life would come to an end. The Hereafter amazing me to think about.

LOVE!

 

[MPat]

But then what of patients of brain damage and such? people have changed behaviors entirely after accidents, so what does that mean to their soul?

There is a joke: “A scientist puts a cockroach in a jar. He hits the jar and the cockroach moves. Then he takes the cockroach, cuts its legs off and repeats the experiment. The cockroach doesn’t move. The scientist concludes that cockroach hears using its legs.”… But isn’t the same reasoning used here? Such evidence can lead us to conclusion that those parts of brain are necessary for some behaviours, but they are not enough for any conclusion about sufficiency. We could get this result if those parts are making decisions, but we could also get those same results if they are just channels of communication with “decision maker”.

anyways, what has always kept me going is my belief that there’s an afterlife, that all good things can last forever or something even better will kick in, but as a man of science, I must also admit the fact that there are more scientific evidences suggesting that human consciousnesses is just a process of the brain and “I” don’t really exist. And there are really little evidences that show that afterlife, or soul exist.

As you can see, those “scientific evidences suggesting that human consciousnesses is just a process of the brain” are not very convincing (to say the least)… And there is a clear fact that no one seems to have any idea how to explain the human consciousness (or “qualia”) materialistically, beyond vague “The scientists will think of something. Um, eventually…”. That might not be a full proof that souls exist, but that is still evidence. And then we have all kinds of public and private revelation. And “near death experiences”. And I guess it could be possible to add even more. There are many pieces of evidence that at least suggest afterlife.

So I was watching the disney movie “frozen” with my friend, and I can’t find but got hooked on it because of how beautiful it is. I watched it for many times until one day I realized :

By the way, that could be a good pretext to thank God - for giving inspiration to the creators of the movie, for letting you see it etc. Philosophy is not the only solution you should try.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

But then what of patients of brain damage and such? people have changed behaviors entirely after accidents, so what does that mean to their soul?

PS : Really thank everyone who are replying, knowing there are people out there trying to help is already helping me depression somewhat, please don’t be offended if I am slow to reply since I have a weird shift, I just started working at Boeing as the matter of fact (graduated recently) so I am trying to put on a learner mode.

Good Evening Hihiip. That’s actually quite simple. If a certain part of the brain is damaged, then it loses the associated function, just like any other integrative instrument. For instance, we don’t lose memory, we would simply lose access to that file from the conscious database, which I think is shared and transpersonal, and as in the case with a television, your brain simply loses a given channel. It can also tune into a channel that doesn’t fit the particular venue we find ourselves in. The other part of the problem you pose is explained by our tendency to identify with the storyline associated with a particular permutation of sentient experience, or bodies for instance. We should consider that this aspect of our existence isn’t primary. It’s just one story in a broader conscious experience. Sentient experience is not the same as consciousness. It’s simply an aspect of it. A small one, It think.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[GEddie]

As you can see, those “scientific evidences suggesting that human consciousnesses is just a process of the brain” are not very convincing (to say the least)…

Human consciousness in the earthly world is impossible without the brain and the senses of body. That’s no biggie.

If you have a blocked nose, you will not be conscious of smells.

If you are blindfolded, you would be without visual awareness.

With bound limbs, you would not experience touch sensations.

Yet in every instance, your conscious mind is unimpeded.

Likewise, our brain is the organ we use for earthly consciousness, just as we use eyes for sight, and hands for touch sensation. If it did not work we would be unconscious of earthly being. But we already know that Eternal life is not dependent upon earthly being.

ICXC NIKA

 

[LongingSoul]

throughout my life I have always been nourished by the faith of a loving God, an afterlife, yet recently I just go into this deep depression and fear of the oblivious. If nothing will last, why bother fighting? why bothering studying so hard or working so hard to make lives better? to help others to find happiness when nothingness is inevitable?

I am afraid of not being, I feel depressed because all good things will come to an end and everything I have ever done will be in vain, never in my life have I truly understand the fear for death, it is not because of the pain that you may endure, nor the uncertainty of what lies ahead, but the oblivion that awaits me ahead and “I” will no longer be.

Does anyone ever feel the same way? like ever?

I experienced this around the time of my early forties. (Ten years ago). Even though I have always been a practicing Catholic and never experienced any doubts in the face of clever atheistic arguments… my experience began as physical rather than intellectual. I felt as if I was existing on the edge of a great black chasm or abyss that was sucking me in. I tried to ignore it and work against it but one day I felt it ‘get’ me and I was spiralling down into it. I was more terrified than I’d ever been and prayed and prayed the rosary over and over. Eventually, I had to give up trying to fight it and said God if You are there only You can save me. Almost instantly I experienced a sensation of being scooped up by a huge Fathers hand and the lightness was the most wonderful thing I’ve ever experienced. It was the first time in my life that I had met with the Lord in that way.

Since that time there is a certain type of fear that I’ve lived without. I still have some other fears about my worthiness and whether I’m ‘hurting’ God and others by my weaknesses and sins, but I find that I want to be a better person not so much to save myself from hell (which is how I’d subconsciously lived up to that point )… but so as not to harm others and God. (I know that God cannot be harmed by me, but as my Father, my care about Him in that way seems right).

As Catholics, we are so blessed to have the food for the soul in the Eucharist and the place of cleansing and renewel in the sacrament of Reconciliation. I can’t stress to you enough how important they are to you in this life.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Human consciousness in the earthly world is impossible without the brain and the senses of body. That’s no biggie.

If you have a blocked nose, you will not be conscious of smells.

If you are blindfolded, you would be without visual awareness.

With bound limbs, you would not experience touch sensations.

Yet in every instance, your conscious mind is unimpeded.

Likewise, our brain is the organ we use for earthly consciousness, just as we use eyes for sight, and hands for touch sensation. If it did not work we would be unconscious of earthly being. But we already know that Eternal life is not dependent upon earthly being.

ICXC NIKA

Imagine showing a television to a lost tribe of people who have had no contact with the outside world. Now try explaining to them that the picture and sound of the television comes from broadcasting companies. The tribal people would probably look at you like you were nuts, insisting that the sound and picture were originating from within the television set itself.

Now, rethink where consciousness comes from; might it be that this is the working of spirits that originate from afar, and not merely a product of our brain? And, just as the picture of the TV would be disrupted through a malfunction, so too with the brain.

It’s interesting to note that human beings make great television antennas. I do not think this is coincidental. Think about it, how is it that TV and radio signals pass through the human body?

LOVE!

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Now, rethink where consciousness comes from; might it be that this is the working of spirits that originate from afar, and not merely a product of our brain? And, just as the picture of the TV would be disrupted through a malfunction, so too with the brain.

It’s interesting to note that human beings make great television antennas. I do not think this is coincidental. Think about it, how is it that TV and radio signals pass through the human body?

LOVE!

Exactly!

 

[tonyrey]

It is worth remembering how Socrates faced death with courage and serenity:

"Let us reflect in another way, and we shall see that there is great reason to hope that death is a good, for one of two things: - either death is a state of nothingness and utter unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration of the soul from this world to another. Now if you suppose that there is no consciousness, but a sleep like the sleep of him who is undisturbed even by the sight of dreams, death will be an unspeakable gain. For if a person were to select the night in which his sleep was undisturbed even by dreams, and were to compare with this the other days and nights of his life, and then were to tell us how many days and nights he had passed in the course of his life better and more pleasantly than this one, I think that any man, I will not say a private man, but even the great king, will not find many such days or nights, when compared with the others. Now if death is like this, I say that to die is gain; for eternity is then only a single night.

But if death is the journey to another place, and there, as men say, all the dead are, what good, O my friends and judges, can be greater than this? If indeed when the pilgrim arrives in the world below, he is delivered from the professors of justice in this world, and finds the true judges who are said to give judgment there, Minos and Rhadamanthus and Aeacus and Triptolemus, and other sons of God who were righteous in their own life, that pilgrimage will be worth making. What would not a man give if he might converse with Orpheus and Musaeus and Hesiod and Homer? Nay, if this be true, let me die again and again. I, too, shall have a wonderful interest in a place where I can converse with Palamedes, and Ajax the son of Telamon, and other heroes of old, who have suffered death through an unjust judgment; and there will be no small pleasure, as I think, in comparing my own sufferings with theirs. Above all, I shall be able to continue my search into true and false knowledge; as in this world, so also in that; I shall find out who is wise, and who pretends to be wise, and is not. What would not a man give, O judges, to be able to examine the leader of the great Trojan expedition; or Odysseus or Sisyphus, or numberless others, men and women too! What infinite delight would there be in conversing with them and asking them questions! For in that world they do not put a man to death for this; certainly not. For besides being happier in that world than in this, they will be immortal, if what is said is true.

Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know this of a truth - that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death. He and his are not neglected by the gods; nor has my own approaching end happened by mere chance. But I see clearly that to die and be released was better for me; and therefore the oracle gave no sign. For which reason also, I am not angry with my accusers, or my condemners; they have done me no harm, although neither of them meant to do me any good; and for this I may gently blame them.

Still I have a favor to ask of them. When my sons are grown up, I would ask you, O my friends, to punish them; and I would have you trouble them, as I have troubled you, if they seem to care about riches, or anything, more than about virtue; or if they pretend to be something when they are really nothing, - then reprove them, as I have reproved you, for not caring about that for which they ought to care, and thinking that they are something when they are really nothing. And if you do this, I and my sons will have received justice at your hands.

The hour of departure has arrived, and we go our ways - I to die, and you to live. Which is better God only knows."

Socrates demonstrated how philosophy led to spirituality five hundred years before the birth of Jesus. The world was ready for the coming of the Messiah who would face death not only with courage but confidence in divine love:

“Today you will be with me in paradise”…
.

 

[hihiip201]

Isn’t this akin to the definition of neurotic…watching the same movie over and over…especially in a short time period…and indwelling on an issue presented?
I only ask because I, unfortunately, tend toward the same…

I think so…but the movie is so beautiful that I cannot help but keep watching it again and again.

 

[hihiip201]

. The only solution I can offer to your fear is concentrating on your work which involves helping people, appreciating the beautiful moments of life, and trusting and loving G-d and others. IOW if you live a life of meaning and purpose, you may achieve more than a modicum of well-being despite your fear and uncertainty.

But that’s kind of back to my source of problem right? If I can’t even find the meaning or purpose anymore, how can I believe that I am living a life of meaning and purpose? I can’t seem to go on , this depression is haunting me especially when I sleep(could be the dark? or just the thoughts), I feel so alone and depressed that there doesn’t seem to be anyone watching over me anymore, used to be that I believed God would pet me (metaphorically)to sleep every night (yes , I am a grown 20+ yo and I believed in that a few months back) , but now all that seems to shatter.

 

[hihiip201]

I have had many deaths close to me and have been close a few times myself. I don’t really have an answer for you regarding the loss of your individuality at death, since that is not something I’ve really considered, but I think your plan for the years you have is an admirable one.

Have you sought any professional help, or is there someone close who you can talk too. When I am down I find that walking in a quiet environment helps. Maybe it is just the quiet, or the old “voices on the wind” notion (I’ve never heard any).

If I can give any thoughts they would be that I doubt that the I will matter much in any afterlife there may be. Live your life the best way you can, and leave death to the dead.

I have talked to my friends sometimes, not professional help though since it costs

Being around someone helps, unfortunately I am also not very social, it takes a long time for me to develop friendship with someone so I don’t have a lot of friends, so it’s not possible for me to bug them all the time, which is why I turn to the online community.

 

[hihiip201]

hihiip201
Below is my response submitted in this forum to another thread on the same subject in January of this year. It my also apply to your OP.

*I am 80 years old and more and more, each day, heaven becomes a very important object of contemplation. I’ve decided that since I have never seen a description of Heaven that is both imaginable and plausible and also accounts for that other possibility we call Hell, I stopped guessing what Heaven and Hell are like and began to imagine what I would liked them to be. It is easier to describe my Heaven than my Hell because fortunately this lifetime was closer to a Heaven than to a Hell. So here’s what I would like Heaven to be like:

My mother, father will be in the same age-relationship with me as they were this time around. They won’t be teenagers and they won’t be ageless, they will be my mother and father. So too will my brothers and sisters, my children, their children and all the people I have known in this life time will be there just as they are or were in this lifetime. Yes, there will be the same animals, flowers, oceans, stars, and all the things I’ve experienced in this lifetime.

I will fall in love again with the same beautiful woman and live an entire married life immersed in romance, good humor, and friendship. My Heavenly life will be filled with the same or more of the laughter, wonder, love, joy, fun, peace, nostalgia, and piety that has filled this life. I will hit a baseball again; I will hear La Boheme for the first time again; I will sing babies to sleep in the middle of a quiet night again. I will eat peanuts, smell roses, hear a whippoorwill, see the ocean for the first time; see Broadway musicals, watch my children graduate, marry the same persons, and have the same children again. You get the idea.

On the Hell side, there will be diseases, earthquakes, plaques, floods, and all sorts of physical evil. But that stuff will be diminished just as social evil such as wars, bigotry, injustice, tyranny, and poverty also will diminish. Since I have had a minimum of disappointments in this life, I can’t describe a vision of a personal Hell but it would consist of far too many regrets and sins, none of which I care to share. But if I have done this life correctly, and have confessed those sins and regrets, then they won’t happen in the Heaven that is my next lifetime because I will enter into it with a more effective conscience.

So my Heaven and Hell would look a lot like my present life except there would be fewer regrets and sins committed. In other words it would be palpably better. Kind of like the movie “Ground Hog Day” in which Bill Murray repeatedly wakes up on the same day, but each new repeat, he alters his behavior for the better, and experiences more and more joy. Each new life would be closer to Heaven and farther from Hell until I and all the rest of humanity achieved that goal and we reach the fullness of the Mystical Body of Christ.*

*And how would this sort of Heaven/Hell come about. Well there does happen to be a scientific solution for my hope. It is called the Many World Interpretation of the Schroedinger wave equation. Before any of you puritanical Catholics accuse me the heresy of reincarnation, google the Many World Interpretation and ask yourself whether living a parallel life as yourself is reincarnation. I don’t think it is. And if the MWI is real, consider what that would mean if not successive lifetimes.

Anyway I am not saying with certainty that this is a theological view of Heaven in accordance with scripture and the “defined dogma” of the Catholic Church, it is merely what I what Heaven to be like. On the other hand, it describes how those that have been derived of a full lifetime of wonder, peace, and joy, like a young teen age girl with a fine mind and a body wracked with Spina Bifida can have a clear vision of hope. It also allows those now suffering in a life that Hell to eventually escape, so that all souls are saved.

In the meantime, we are making our way through our personnel purgatories in which we too often make the wrong choices by failing to respond to God’s grace. Eventually we will all escape our personal Hell’s and arrive at that perfect world we call Heaven.
*

Yppop

Oh WOW, you know what’s funny, I didn’t read your post until just now, but I was just thinking how my heaven would be like and I came to the same conclusion which involves the multiverse theory.

I’m not sure if I want to share too much details about my heaven because it is pretty embarrassing, but it does involved something very similar to what you are describing scientifically.

 

[Robert_Sock]

But that’s kind of back to my source of problem right? If I can’t even find the meaning or purpose anymore, how can I believe that I am living a life of meaning and purpose? I can’t seem to go on , this depression is haunting me especially when I sleep(could be the dark? or just the thoughts), I feel so alone and depressed that there doesn’t seem to be anyone watching over me anymore, used to be that I believed God would pet me (metaphorically)to sleep every night (yes , I am a grown 20+ yo and I believed in that a few months back) , but now all that seems to shatter.

God is close to the brokenhearted.

I suffer from depression too, but not like you’re experiencing. I do suffer from panic attacks though, in which I feel absolutely driven to suicide; they are absolutely terrible!!! If you can carry your cross, your rewards will be GREAT, either in this life or the Hereafter. I’m praying for you! May God bless you abundantly!

LOVE!

 

[ynotzap]

I will begin by saying how scared I really am.

anyways, what has always kept me going is my belief that there’s an afterlife, that all good things can last forever or something even better will kick in, but as a man of science, I must also admit the fact that there are more scientific evidences suggesting that human consciousnesses is just a process of the brain and “I” don’t really exist. And there are really little evidences that show that afterlife, or soul exist.

I am afraid of not being, I feel depressed because all good things will come to an end and everything I have ever done will be in vain, never in my life have I truly understand the fear for death, it is not because of the pain that you may endure, nor the uncertainty of what lies ahead, but the oblivion that awaits me ahead and “I” will no longer be.

Does anyone ever feel the same way? like ever?

What does science say about the fact "I know that I know, " self consciousness. According to Newton matter is part outside part. How do they explain how a person can be aware of himself the same time he is communcating. or observing, this not a physical phenomenon How do they explain the abstraction of ideas from sensation? How do they explain knowledge that goes beyond sensation. Is truth tangible, is math tangible? Is love tangible. Is understanding tangible. Material science has never transcended the physical. So they are stuck in the physical world, and you are too if you believe them in this matter. I know of the existence of spiritual beings we call “fallen angels,” and I have witnesses to what I know. Stick with the Catholic Church and her teachings. She is centered on Jesus Christ and His spiritual kingdom for which we were created. By the way souls are spiritual and you have one, matter can’t destroy it, and science can’t even destroy matter, just change the way it exists. Trust God and don’t worry.

 

[CandideWest]

I will begin by saying how scared I really am.

So I was watching the disney movie “frozen” with my friend, and I can’t find but got hooked on it because of how beautiful it is. I watched it for many times until one day I realized :

“gosh, that’s an amazing story, and I’d bet many people in real life also have story like these or better, parental love, sibling love or romantic love is so beautiful I wish they last forever for those who find them”.

my life goal is to dedicate my life for those who find happiness, or to help others to find happiness, I’m an engineer and my goal is to work in the bio-mechanical field such as medical devices or prosthetics. I graduated a year ago and although I am working in a unrelated field, I believe it is my stepping stone to my life goal.

anyways, what has always kept me going is my belief that there’s an afterlife, that all good things can last forever or something even better will kick in, but as a man of science, I must also admit the fact that there are more scientific evidences suggesting that human consciousnesses is just a process of the brain and “I” don’t really exist. And there are really little evidences that show that afterlife, or soul exist.

throughout my life I have always been nourished by the faith of a loving God, an afterlife, yet recently I just go into this deep depression and fear of the oblivious. If nothing will last, why bother fighting? why bothering studying so hard or working so hard to make lives better? to help others to find happiness when nothingness is inevitable?

I am afraid of not being, I feel depressed because all good things will come to an end and everything I have ever done will be in vain, never in my life have I truly understand the fear for death, it is not because of the pain that you may endure, nor the uncertainty of what lies ahead, but the oblivion that awaits me ahead and “I” will no longer be.

Does anyone ever feel the same way? like ever?

Hey,

I experienced something very similar. You’re definitely not the only one who has had this feeling. But I’m afraid I’d rather keep such detailed discussions off a public thread.

I’ve sent you a PM if you’d like to discuss further.

Otherwise I wish you all the very best

Take care

Candide

 

[organgrinder]

I understand and appreciate your fears. However, the written word of God we know as the Bible, makes it clear there is an afterlife and that those who are born-again Christians (repented and confessed Jesus as Lord and begin walking with him) have absolutely nothing to fear at all.

God is not a mental concept but Someone who wishes to have daily relationship with us. That was made possible by the one-time sacrifice of Jesus at calvary. Those who are born-again Christians and boldly enter God’s throne room and ask the Father for what is needed.

The scripture says perfect love cast out fear and Jesus is that perfect love given to us. Begin to accept and believe God’s word and your life will change.

Mine did as did many other who came to know Jesus as Savior and Lord.

God bless.

-Speedy