I'm sick of all the cafeteria, lukewarm, irreverant, uncatechized, cultural catholics

[Debora123]

Let’s be optimistic. I bet the “1 star” voter was someone who never took the time to read the post before voting.

I dunno… it’s not the first time I’ve seen nice threads of this nature get rated very badly.

But you’re right, one can only hope…

 

[Nom_the_Wise]

I’m sorry about the title, that I tricked everyone with a misleading title.

Don’t worry about that. Yahoo! News does that all the time!

“Johnny Depp almost died in a plane crash” was a recent title and it turned out that he was on a plane in severe turbulence, and thought he might die. That is not the same as almost dying in a plane crash. For that to occur, the plane has to have crashed and you have to have not died. Or at least the plane has to have come close to hitting an object large enough/strong enough to resist the plane’s inertia, and then not to have hit it, resulting in an “almost crash,” where Johnny Depp could have conceiveably almost died.

At least when I clicked on *this *thread, I learned something and found some charity being passed around. It’s going to be a good day.

 

[Diosesamor]

Thanks for sharing your stories (to all that have shared). Before I became a Catholic my father would encourage us to go to Church and make a donation from our summer job paychecks. I was there dropping bills and coins even during mass— what a distraction! I was even encouraged to receive Communion at least once by my dad. I honestly didn’t know as a teen that there was a process of joining. In time I felt pulled to God beyond my prayers to him in my bedroom or in my journal… And even with the anti-Christian Catholic climate in my university, I was baptized in 2000. In 2002 I lived a Cursillo de Cristiandad and the love story of my conversion grew more profound than I could have dreamed.

So patience and love and PRAYERS for the cell phone answering, gum chewing and etc. is a must!

 

[Diosesamor]

Thanks for sharing your stories (to all that have shared). Before I became a Catholic my father would encourage us to go to Church and make a donation from our summer job paychecks. I was there dropping bills and coins even during mass— what a distraction! I was even encouraged to receive Communion at least once by my dad. I honestly didn’t know as a teen that there was a process of joining. In time I felt pulled to God beyond my prayers to him in my bedroom or in my journal… And even with the anti-Christian Catholic climate in my university, I was baptized in 2000. In 2002 I lived a Cursillo de Cristiandad and the love story of my conversion grew more profound than I could have dreamed.

So patience and love and PRAYERS for the cell phone answering, gum chewing and etc. is a must!

 

[TrueLight]

We should remember to be compassionate towards our lukewarm, maybe disbelieving brothers and sisters and pray for their souls. But we also need to point out inconsistencies and provide correction.

I often encounter the attitude that “everyone is on their own path, etc, etc.”

This is the new age “everyone is going to heaven” spirituality that is popular today in so many churches including the one I attended for six years. In those churches, there is no final judgment. Everyone eventually finds enlightenment.

Yes, everyone is on their own journey, but I know I would not want to watch someone moving ever and ever away from the Lord without my saying a thing. I have that responsibility.

Only God knows the heart. But I’m going to do my part and preach the Gospel. One can either accept it or not accept it.

Tim, I am happy your journey led you to a deeper relationship with Christ.

However, sometimes one’s journey ends faster than one expected. We don’t all have 40 years.

Today is the day of salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:1-2
1 As God’s co-workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 For he says,
“In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you.
I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

I dunno… it’s not the first time I’ve seen nice threads of this nature get rated very badly.

But you’re right, one can only hope…

I think that we, (Catholics that is), can be a tough bunch. It just makes me appreciate the gifts the Holy Spirit instills in our priests and nuns.

 

[Michaela1]

I agree with Crenfro’s comments on the issue of “cafeteria Catholics” with one exception: Whereas many Catholics today view correction of such people to be uncharitable, calling it “criticism”, such correction really is completely charitable. It is, in fact, our duty, to point out to such individuals (but civilly and with kindness) that they are on the wrong path. The idea that we should not do so because it might not be “their time” to come over to God is nonsense! When we see cafeteria Catholics committing adultery, stealing, or supporting such things as abortion and gay marriage, regardless of whether or not it is “their time” to accept God’s teachings, we should and must admonish and instruct them privately about God’s feelings on such matters. When we see affluent families coming to Mass dressed down in too-casual or disrespectful attire, they should be spoken to about it. And certainly, far too many “cafeteria Catholics” hold public office or positions in our parishes, setting new policy based on their non-Catholic views. It is our silent tolerance of virtually anything and everything contrary to Catholic teachings in the Catholic community that has led to the serious weakening of the Catholic Church today. How many of you would refuse to correct your child’s destructive and harmful impulses because “he might not be ready to come to adult behavior?” Cafeteria Catholics, like the rest of us, are just “children of God” and they could possibly benefit from sincere and gentle correction, backed up by good example, which might help turn them sooner from their sinful course and draw them closer to God so they don’t have to spend decades in sinful activity and possibly die unrepentant. Think about it - the stakes are high.

 

[raaucoin]

Hey Tim,
Quit telling my story! On second thought–keep yelling it to the highest hights.

Thank you Lord, that we are not alone, and may we be waiting, willing, and welcoming when you send others like us our way.

 

[mathematoons]

I’m not sick of them. They are me ten years ago.

You say “Treat them with kindness”. What do you mean by that?

How is labeling someones belief “Garbage” showing kindness? How is being sick of anyone showing kindness?

-Tim-

What I mean is that we have to be nice to them in spite of the fact that we know how sinful and destructive their beliefs are. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

The Church claims to be the voice of God. Cafeteria “Catholics” disagree, which is nothing less than calling this claim blasphemy (which it would be if it were not true).

 

[TimothyH]

However, sometimes one’s journey ends faster than one expected. We don’t all have 40 years.

Today is the day of salvation.

So when is God’s cut off time?

What is it to us if God want’s someone to take 40 years?

When do we approach the sinner in the pew and say, “Sorry, too late buddy. Were going to have to ask you to leave. You are going to hell anyway so we might as well get this over with now. It will be easier on you if you just go quietly and don’t make a fuss.” ?

At what point do reclaim that pew space for someone who really deserves it?

When does St. Monica get the memo…

**Dear Monica;

Save your tears. He’s not going to convert. Try to be realistic about this. It’s time to move on. You have your own salvation to worry about anyway. Pay no attention to that singing. It’s just a bunch of kids anyway.

Sincerely,
Your Fellow Catholic**

-Tim-

 

[Joe_5859]

We should remember to be compassionate towards our lukewarm, maybe disbelieving brothers and sisters and pray for their souls. But we also need to point out inconsistencies and provide correction.

True. Christianity is not a “Live and let live” type of religion. We have Good News that we want to share.

However, I think the point being brought up in the thread is that we needn’t “rage” against those we perceive to not yet be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect.

If I’m at my in-laws parish visiting for Christmas and in the pew in front of me is a guy in ripped jeans and an inappropriate t-shirt who slouches his way through Mass and then still goes up to receive Communion, it would only be spiritually harmful to myself to sit there in judgment of him as if I know the state of his soul. It would be wrong of me to go up to him after Mass and tell him that I am apalled by his lack of reverence and that if he didn’t know how to dress for Mass he shouldn’t bother coming.

But if I’m at my own parish and I see the same type of guy who I know to be the brother of a guy I know from the parish softball tournament, I may go up to him and welcome him, be a friend to him, and share the Good News with him in the ways that the Spirit leads me to do.

Certainly, we are not New Agers. But there are times and ways that are more fitting to share the Good News. And sharing the Good News never needs be done in a way that is condescending or condemning.

 

[Luvtosew]

True. Christianity is not a “Live and let live” type of religion. We have Good News that we want to share.

However, I think the point being brought up in the thread is that we needn’t “rage” against those we perceive to not yet be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect.

If I’m at my in-laws parish visiting for Christmas and in the pew in front of me is a guy in ripped jeans and an inappropriate t-shirt who slouches his way through Mass and then still goes up to receive Communion, it would only be spiritually harmful to myself to sit there in judgment of him as if I know the state of his soul. It would be wrong of me to go up to him after Mass and tell him that I am apalled by his lack of reverence and that if he didn’t know how to dress for Mass he shouldn’t bother coming.

But if I’m at my own parish and I see the same type of guy who I know to be the brother of a guy I know from the parish softball tournament, I may go up to him and welcome him, be a friend to him, and share the Good News with him in the ways that the Spirit leads me to do.

Certainly, we are not New Agers. But there are times and ways that are more fitting to share the Good News. And sharing the Good News never needs be done in a way that is condescending or condemning.

Great Post.

 

[TrueLight]

So when is God’s cut off time?

What is it to us if God want’s someone to take 40 years?

When do we approach the sinner in the pew and say, “Sorry, too late buddy. Were going to have to ask you to leave. You are going to hell anyway so we might as well get this over with now. It will be easier on you if you just go quietly and don’t make a fuss.” ?

At what point do reclaim that pew space for someone who really deserves it?

When does St. Monica get the memo…

**Dear Monica;

Save your tears. He’s not going to convert. Try to be realistic about this. It’s time to move on. You have your own salvation to worry about anyway. Pay no attention to that singing. It’s just a bunch of kids anyway.

Sincerely,
Your Fellow Catholic**

-Tim-

Why are we talking about pew spaces and asking people to leave the Church? Is that what is in your original O.P.? We might be having two different conversations.

I don’t understand why you posted that parody of a quote with St. Monica. Is that what you get from what I’m saying?

Monica continued to pray for her son and did not shy away from telling him the truth.

Souls who have either drifted away from God or who have one foot in the church and one in the world need prayer and the no-nonsense truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I would hope if I ever drift away, loving, caring Catholics will speak the truth to me, so that even if I get annoyed, when the lights are out and I retire for the night, I will ponder those words.

 

[TrueLight]

If I’m at my in-laws parish visiting for Christmas and in the pew in front of me is a guy in ripped jeans and an inappropriate t-shirt who slouches his way through Mass and then still goes up to receive Communion, it would only be spiritually harmful to myself to sit there in judgment of him as if I know the state of his soul. It would be wrong of me to go up to him after Mass and tell him that I am apalled by his lack of reverence and that if he didn’t know how to dress for Mass he shouldn’t bother coming.

Well, I agree with this.

That is a superficial issue. I hope we are talking of deeper things than that.

 

[Amer_Was_Amazed]

Cafeteria Catholics… Lukewarm Catholics… Cultural Catholics… Self-excommunicated by their own disobedience… Irreverent Catholics… Damned to eternal hell…

What I always try to remember is that I was not unlike that person long ago, and that I have no idea when that person may be converted. What I always try to remember is that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, least of all myself.

God waited patiently for me - waited 43 years - all the time keeping me safe from harm, keeping me alive and safe in spite of my every attempt to kill myself through drugs, car wrecks, smoking and drinking, and just general stupidity. I was bound in a lifestyle of habitual sin and I’m sure many looked at me as an uneducated, disobedient, cafateria Catholic who was not worthy of the sacraments and damned by my own choices, by my own free will, to eternity in Hell. I remember in my mid-20’s, a woman I worked with and one of my former teachers from high school talking about me right in front of me like I wasn’t even there. They were wagging their heads and saying that I might as well just go overdose on drugs right then-and-there because that is what was going to happen eventually anyway and that I was just a waste of life. What they said still hurt, in spite of the drugs.

But God waited patiently for 43 years, slowly getting me to quit drugs and cut my hair, giving me a wife and and children - which I didn’t deserve - and using them to teach me responsiblity. When my daughter died, God gave me a chance to turn to him but I wasn’t ready so he waited patiently for another dozen years while I continued in sin, until the departure of my wife finally broke me and I had no place to go but to God. And the whole time, God kept me safe and out of harms way because he knew that it was just a matter of time. The whole time he called to me, whispered to me, said “Psssst! Over here…”, and slowly changed me, imperceptively, until I was ready. God had a plan which I wasn’t aware of.

When I see “Cafateria Catholics”, I see myself. When I see lukewarm Catholic, I see myself. When I see uncatechized Catholics or people who are addicted to sin or who recieve the Eucharist in a state of sin, I see myself. I try to remember that not long ago, I was exactly like them. And I try to always remember that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone. He could have big plans for that cafateria Catholic, or that sinner, or that sex addict, or that guy who shows up at Mass in bermuda shorts and topsiders. I have no idea when that person is going to be converted. I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, let alone myself.

That’s one of the reasons why I chose St. Augustine as my confirmation saint. He was a drinker and bound by slavery to habitual sexual sin. But God can convert anyone, and we really don’t know who or when it will happen. St. Augustine and I undersand that.

Go easy on the guy in bermuda shorts and topsiders because he may be at Mass to pray to God that he be granted freedom from addiction to porn. Give the guy in a sweatshirt and sneakers a break because he might have just had his frist sober month in many hears and those are all the clothes he owns. Cut the Methodist husband of that Catholic woman a break, because he doesn’t understand - it’s not his fault - and he just might read John 6 one day and suddenly it all makes sense.

Lighten up a little… please. We don’t know God’s plan.

-Tim-

I always remind myself when I’m about to judge someone that only God knows what that person is truly going through, and only He can ultimately judge. Peace

 

[Big_Feet]

I always remind myself when I’m about to judge someone that only God knows what that person is truly going through, and only He can ultimately judge. Peace

I wish more of us would remember this exact thing more often. It is the truth, and if thought about by all more frequently, there would be A LOT more charity in these forums and in this world, I think.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

The posts in this thread remind me of a quote from Mother Teresa, “If you judge other people, you have no time to love them.”

 

[veilofveronica]

** Thank you for your post. I know I need to be reminded to exercise humility when I get aggravated with “C&E Catholics” (Christmas and Easter attendees), those that arrive late and chat through Mass, etc etc (I won’t go on).

I had quite the colorful past before I came back to the Church just last year. I was practicing Wicca, living with an abusive man, and had done basically everything that was leading me down the wrong path. God in His Wisdom delivered me and I am so thankful. I have to remember that…that others are where I was and that I have to be patient and humble. Patience is not one of my virtues…I have to pray to work on that.

God Bless!
Jillian**

 

[Oneofthewomen]

We should remember to be compassionate towards our lukewarm, maybe disbelieving brothers and sisters and pray for their souls. But we also need to point out inconsistencies and provide correction.

I often encounter the attitude that “everyone is on their own path, etc, etc.”

This is the new age “everyone is going to heaven” spirituality that is popular today in so many churches including the one I attended for six years. In those churches, there is no final judgment. Everyone eventually finds enlightenment.

Yes, everyone is on their own journey, but I know I would not want to watch someone moving ever and ever away from the Lord without my saying a thing. I have that responsibility.

Only God knows the heart. But I’m going to do my part and preach the Gospel. One can either accept it or not accept it.

Tim, I am happy your journey led you to a deeper relationship with Christ.

However, sometimes one’s journey ends faster than one expected. We don’t all have 40 years.

Today is the day of salvation.

There is much about this post that troubles me, TrueLight.

First, why do you feel it is your “responsibility” to correct others? Why do you feel a “need” to point out someone else’s error?

The only person I am responsible for is myself, not anyone else.
And as an adult, I probably would not take to kindly to someone, no matter how well meaning, “correcting” me, unless I asked them for their correction.

Secondly, and the thing that really bothers me is your attitude that the “journey” ends.
The journey toward God continues until we take our final breath.
It is only then that it ends, and at that time I am only judged on what 'I" did,
not what others did or didn’t do.

I sometimes find myself falling into the idea that I must “correct” someone,
especially considering that I am considered "very orthodox, border line “traditional” to most of my friends and family.
My wonderful spritiual director, who knows me well,
asked me why I thought it was my job to “correct” these things. *** “Are you doing it for God, or for your own ego”,*** is actually what he asked me.

Now, everytime I get the “urge” to correct someone, I think of this question.
99% of the time, I now keep my mouth shut, and try to “live” the Gospel!

 

[TrueLight]

There is much about this post that troubles me, TrueLight.

First, why do you feel it is your “responsibility” to correct others? Why do you feel a “need” to point out someone else’s error?

Out of love. If you have a Catholic friend who is sleeping with her boyfriend, will you never tell her that it is against Catholic teaching? Will you stay quiet because she is not your responsibility?

I believe it is our responsibility to let a brother or sister in Christ know if they are doing something that is against Catholic teaching, if the opportunity arises. It doesn’t mean you beat them over the head. You let them know and then you pray for them.

St Augustine said,

“If you are silent, be silent out of love; if you speak, speak out of love; if you correct, correct out of love; if you forgive, forgive out of love, may the root of love be in you, because from this root nothing can come that is not good” (7, 8: PL 35).

The only person I am responsible for is myself, not anyone else.
And as an adult, I probably would not take to kindly to someone, no matter how well meaning, “correcting” me, unless I asked them for their correction.

Most people don’t like when they are corrected, including myself. It takes swallowing your pride and being open, and understanding that the person doing the correcting is doing it because they care about you.

Secondly, and the thing that really bothers me is your attitude that the “journey” ends.
The journey toward God continues until we take our final breath.
It is only then that it ends, and at that time I am only judged on what 'I" did,
not what others did or didn’t do.

I don’t have an “attitude” that the journey ends before we die. Where did I say that? Just because I’m a new Catholic doesn’t mean I don’t know anything. That’s basic Christianity.

When I said not everyone has 40 years, I mean we don’t know how long we have until we take our last breath. We may have 30 or 20. At some point it ends, so we can’t say, “I will return to God in 20 years.”

I sometimes find myself falling into the idea that I must “correct” someone,
especially considering that I am considered "very orthodox, border line “traditional” to most of my friends and family.
My wonderful spritiual director, who knows me well,
asked me why I thought it was my job to “correct” these things. *** “Are you doing it for God, or for your own ego”,*** is actually what he asked me.

Now, every time I get the “urge” to correct someone, I think of this question.
99% of the time, I now keep my mouth shut, and try to “live” the Gospel!

Anytime we think about correcting, we must really listen to the Holy Spirit. There is a time to speak and a time to be silent.

But some people think we must never correct, and that I disagree with.