I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[Montalban]

and what do u hope to gain by posting this,
i can tell u now that it won’t hurt Islam in anyway, because people having been bashing them since their start.
a story can come out tomorrow where Muhammad had sex with a 6 year old and it would not change a thing.

And why do you keep asking me to justify myself here. You don’t ask Moslems that. You accuse me of diversion, and that’s all you’ve done.

It’s a typical Islamic argument technique.

Someone talks about Islam and a Moslem enters the thread and basically says “Let’s not talk about Islam, let’s question something else”

 

[Montalban]

it would have been better if u did challenge me directly rather than indirectly, yes, i agree

If I did it to you it would a diversion, because it’s a thread not about your religion. It’s why you’re not able to see that your attacks on every non-Moslem here is a diversion.

Start a thread about Christians motives.

Your actions are so deliciously ironic!

 

[Montalban]

“Certainly, however a number of people want to deny that Islam is our enemy. It is; it’s opposed to Christ”

So are you saying that Judiaism is our enemy? They are opposed to Christ?

Personally, I don’t consider a person an enemy because he or she disagrees with me.

I think they deny Christ, rather than oppose Christ.

It’s the same as the difference between one who is indifferent to religion per se, and one who attacks it.

 

[roman6320]

I’m leaving. I am sick of hearing people defend our enemies.

Nobody is defending our enemies. Some of us just don’t want to label a whole group as our enemies because of the actions of a minority.

 

[Montalban]

Well well, someone who agrees with my position. I was beggining to worry. Of course you have expressed it much better than I did.

Why not look at the concept of abrogation in Islam?

Many ‘peaceful’ passages were pronounced early in Muhammed’s career. But shortly after gaining power in Medina he became more bellicose.

Islam is full of violence if you look at this latter period.
answeringislam.net/Authors/Sene/peacepromoting.html

 

[Montalban]

Nobody is defending our enemies. Some of us just don’t want to label a whole group as our enemies because of the actions of a minority.

Muhammed was a ‘minority’ of his own faith, I suppose

 

[boog123]

If I did it to you it would a diversion, because it’s a thread not about your religion. It’s why you’re not able to see that your attacks on every non-Moslem here is a diversion.

Start a thread about Christians motives.

Your actions are so deliciously ironic!

my attacks are against people of 1 religion hating another
muslim, jew, christian, buddhist it don’t matter.

it’s why your not able to see that your attacks on every Muslim here and in other posts on other boards are so deliciously crazy.
start a thread about something other than muslims.
move on to another religion to bash and i’ll be there,
i gaurantee it
to wonder why u have so much hate

 

[Montalban]

Nobody is defending our enemies. Some of us just don’t want to label a whole group as our enemies because of the actions of a minority.

Oh, another question - how do you know they’re the minority?

 

[Montalban]

my attacks are against people of 1 religion hating another
muslim, jew, christian, buddhist it don’t matter.

You accuse others of being hypocritically judgmental, yet you judge, and you accuse me of diversion, yet you divert.

Introspection, please.

 

[boog123]

You accuse others of being hypocritically judgmental, yet you judge, and you accuse me of diversion, yet you divert.

Introspection, please.

i accuse SOME Christians of being judgmental because some of them are, and because of the quote i use as my signature that Christians are supposed to follow.

if u say Muhammad slaughtered thousands of people because they would not convert to islam, and a muslim says thats incorrect, is that not a judgement on your part?

 

[Montalban]

Let’s here about Islam, from the Moslems…

QUERIES ON ISLAM

Does a wife have the right to refuse sex with her husband ?
Allah’s Messenger (Pbuh) said, " When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven." (Al Tirmidhi Hadith No. 1160 & Ibn Ma’jah Hadith No. 4165)

From all the above mentioned Ahadith, it is Wajib upon the wife to fulfill the desire of her husband whenever he wishes. If the relationship between the husband and the wife is truly based on Islamic principles, in which both of them treat each other with love, affection, kindness, fulfilling all Islamic desires and settling all matters with mutual agreement and understanding, the question of the wife refusing the sexual desire of the husband does not arise. Nor does the question arise of the husband being insistent or getting perturbed at her not wanting to have sex.
irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/ques5.htm

See also…
Husband’s Rights Concerning His Wife
From Riyad-us-Saliheen
themuslimwoman.com/herrole/husbandsrights.htm

Should people be concerned? I believe so. It’s not “rabid Isalmophobia” though

 

[Montalban]

if u say Muhammad slaughtered thousands of people because they would not convert to islam, and a muslim says thats incorrect, is that not a judgement

Moslems don’t say this, though. They make excuses for it, such as the tribe broke a treaty. That may be, but it ended up in ALL (non-converted) men in that tribe (including teens) being slaughtered and ALL (non-converted) women and children being enslaved.

 

[roman6320]

The above bolded text is THE CRUX of the matter.

I, personally, DO in fact call islam, as delineated in the koran, as a “religion”, evil. Period.

A presumptouos statement. While it is true that Islam has been interpreted in an evil way throughout much of its history, we can’t say objectively that that it is portrayed that way in the Koran. We can only demand from Muslims that they deal with the numerous problematic and contradictory texts.

I see islam as a veneer of “religiosity” thinly disguising a blueprint for the subjugation of mankind to a thug-archic "hier"archy (the “hier” being a misuse of the term) of slavemasters.

It was certainly used as such, yes, especially by those who cared more about conquest than Islam.

Do I think that is how moslems (“good ones”) see islam? No. They see what they wish to see that best fits with that they want to do in life. If they want to be productive citizens of a country, they see it one way. If they want to be jihadis bent on instituting the umma, they see it another way.

Does my opinion of islam affect my dealings with moslems? Not really, other than my being wary of them in terms of “promotion of the political goals of islam”.

I have no problem with being wary of the Islamic world. I just won’t asume that all of Islam is bent on violent world conquest.

People are to be treated as people. I deal with people based on their behavior, not on their “inner thoughts”, as I would expect others to deal with me.

To institute “mindcrimes”, on either “side”, is an evil.

It should not be “insulting” to a moslem to hear me say, “I consider islam, as I know it, to be an evil.”

They should take that as a prompting to educate me in why I should not think that way.

Islam, and most of the islamic world through history, has shown that they consider Christianity, and Judaism, and every other religion on the planet, to be an evil that is curable only by the, if necessary duplicitious and violent, imposition, NOT CONVERSION, but IMPOSITION, of islam.

Hmmm. In one sentence you state that a Muslim should not be insulted when you consider Islam evil. In another you are clearly insulted when Islam suposedly considers Christianity evil. A bit of a contradiction there.

I have no right to impose my beliefs on anyone.

Does islam agree with me in that? I contend that those who say yes it does, do not know islam as it is, but as they’d wish it to be.

People who act well, regardless of the content of their minds, are not to be persecuted. Those who don’t, must be.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[retrovert]

Can somebody tell me the procedure on how to get myself out from under this thread. I’m more than sick of it !!!
Help please…

 

[Montalban]

if u say Muhammad slaughtered thousands of people because they would not convert to islam, and a muslim says thats incorrect, is that not a judgement on your part?

One on-site Moslem apologist tries to explain away the massacre of the Banu Quaresh here

The nearest they can do is to call it a so-called massacre
Not true at all. On the contrary, the Banu Qurayzah prior to the incident of their so-called “massacre” attempted to betray the Muslims by openly aligning themselves with the Confederate armies (consisting of the pagan Quraysh and their allies) during the beseiging of the city of Madinah, known in history as the “War of the Confederates” (al-Harb al-Adzhaab). This is a significant act of treason, because they had earlier pledged to uphold the Madinan Covenent with the Muslims, which stipulates cooperation and an alliance if the Muslims in Madinah were attacked by a foreign force.

There’s no denial they were slaughtered, only the say that they deserved it.

They were slaughtered AFTER they surrendered. Not in the heat of battle.

This was done under Muhammed’s supervision.

And here’s a modern opinion
“Question : How are prisoners of war treated in Islam?
Answer : Praise be to Allaah.

Islam is the religion of mercy and justice; it commands us to call others to the religion of Allaah in a kind and good manner, and to encourage people to enter this great religion. If some people persist in rejecting the religion of Allaah and stand in the way of ruling by that which Allaah has revealed on earth, or they fight against the call to Allaah, then we give them the choice of three things:

Either they become Muslim; or if they refuse they pay the jizyah (whereby they pay a specified amount to the Muslims in return for being allowed to remain their land, and the Muslims undertake to protect them); or, if they refuse that, there is nothing left but the way which they themselves have chosen, which is fighting and dealing violently with those who have persecuted the Muslims and put obstacles in the path of the Islamic da’wah.”
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=13241&ln=eng

 

[boog123]

Moslems don’t say this, though. They make excuses for it, such as the tribe broke a treaty. That may be, but it ended up in ALL (non-converted) men in that tribe (including teens) being slaughtered and ALL (non-converted) women and children being enslaved.

your point from all your posts (almost every post u have on this site)
is islam is violent.
in my opinion SOME of them are.
what i don’t understand is what u want to get out of these posts.
there is not a muslim on this site who will say, Montalban is right i’m leaving islam.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

I have come to the conclusion that some people will label something a “phobia” just because someone is opposed to it. It is a way of bullying that person and cut off the debate.

 

[Montalban]

your point from all your posts (almost every post u have on this site)
is islam is violent.
in my opinion SOME of them are.

That’s the problem though, you offer opinion. I offer fact. I’ve offered opinion of Moslems, you offer more of your opinion.

what i don’t understand is what u want to get out of these posts.
there is not a muslim on this site who will say, Montalban is right i’m leaving islam.

I’m here to defend the truth, regardless of who listens. It’s still the truth. I can only do this one thread at at time. However I’ll be less inclinded to answer more of your attacks here because you offer nothing but your own judgment backed up by your own opinion.

You might want to deal with any of the Moslem opinions I’ve placed here - if you’re genuinely interested in discussing this, that is.

 

[Montalban]

themiddleeastnow.com/musnazi.html

and

cdn-friends-icej.ca/medigest/may00/arabnazi.html

They both hated the Jews.

I read somewhere that Timothy McVeigh had trained with a group of neo-Nazis who had backing by the Arabs, but I can’t find the source of that at present.

 

[abu_kamoon]

“Either they become Muslim; or if they refuse they pay the jizyah (whereby they pay a specified amount to the Muslims in return for being allowed to remain their land, and the Muslims undertake to protect them); or, if they refuse that, there is nothing left but the way which they themselves have chosen, which is fighting and dealing violently with those who have persecuted the Muslims and put obstacles in the path of the Islamic da’wah.”
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=13241&ln=eng”

Gee, I spent over a year and a half in Morocco, and eleven months in Iraq. I never converted to Islam, and I never paid the jizyah. I don’t recall incurring the wrath of the Muslims I came into contact with everyday (although there were a few in Iraq that would have liked to dealt violently with me).

So my experience is, regardless of what you are telling me, I haven’t had that experience in dealing with Muslims. So, who are you going to believe, someone who has been there, or what you have read?