I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Generic Man:

The idea that Muslims are generally violent people has been heavily implied. Hateful and violent teachings? Go ask a Muslim if he hates and wishes pain upon anyone who is not Muslim. Guess what the answer will be.

Read my first post - if you don’t find that hateful and violent, please tell us why not.

If you don’t find Sheikh al-Munajid’s sermon hateful and violent please tell us why not.

Is this peaceful and nonviolent?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
…
Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”

You have a strange notion of what is peaceful and non-violent. I, for one, think anyone who wants to fight me for disbelieving his religion to be hateful and violent towards me.

Perhaps it’s just me. I have this super-sensitivity when someone wants to harm me and my own.

I also don’t need to ask - I know as some of my relatives are Muslims.

 

[Generic_Man]

Proletarian, I think you too, along with Generic Man, need a lesson in Islam.

Elaborate.

If I keep getting recyclyed arguments I will just ignore you.

 

[Edward62]

I completely agree with you, and I applaud your great sense of justice. Just because they are different does not mean that we should be afraid of them or mean to them… a great deal might be achieved if members of each religion could hold productive diologues, and the absence of such a summit is as much our fault as theirs.

 

[Generic_Man]

Read my first post - if you don’t find that hateful and violent, please tell us why not.

If you don’t find Sheikh al-Munajid’s sermon hateful and violent please tell us why not.

Is this peaceful and nonviolent?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
…
Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”

You have a strange notion of what is peaceful and non-violent. I, for one, think anyone who wants to fight me for disbelieving his religion to be hateful and violent towards me.

Perhaps it’s just me. I have this super-sensitivity when someone wants to harm me and my own.

I also don’t need to ask - I know as some of my relatives are Muslims.

You dodged my point.

 

[RevDrNorth]

In what? All I have been saying throughout the topic is that Muslims are not necesarily violent hateful people, a message I have felt has been propagated throughout this board. I never said Islam was perfect. I never said there are serious problems in the middle east. Look over my first post carefully.

Actually,your first post appears to be a rant against people on this board and although I have not read the threads on Islam you seem to smear this board with a broad brush of being ignorant bigots. **You **might want to look at your first post carefully yourself.

Rev North

 

[Zooey]

Not every Moslem is violent and it is certainly absurd to imply otherwise.

However, anyone that is not aware of the brute violence used in trying to convert people or keep people from converting, not to mention the suicide bombing, destruction, violence to supress independent thought and women… is niave. The Pope (Benedict) was absolutely correct and the moderate Muslims need to bring these other forces under control.

Radical elements in Islam seek to get their way through intimidation and violence. Women stoned to death in Saudi Arabia for riding in cars with a man they are not married to, women murdered by Taliban in Afghanistan for all sorts of minor offenses (while vendors sell snacks in the stadium), banned from practicing medicene, etc. Beheadings, behandings, murder for beliefs, etc. Radical Islam is ignorant, brutal and anti civilization. It is horrible and comes across as muder incorporated. Again, Benedict XVI is correct. Moderate Muslims need to band together and suppress this so that they can get their message out there.

Yes Christianity has done some not so nice things but this is 2007 and not 1597. Who would want to live under the hellish world created by radical Islam in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Rev North

Exactly…in America just because your sister went to work today or road home in a car with a man she is not married to we do not murder her. We do not chase your sister down and kill her because she refused to go through with an arranged marriage so she insulted our family. Because you decide to check out a Baptist Church your are not executed or beaten and imprisoned for the rest of your life. We don’t beat your mother for uncovering her face. All these elements are present in countries run by radical Islam. It is so niave and simplistic to suggest radical Islam does not pose a major threat to civil liberites and ideas we hold dear. This is what the Dutch confronted in the Netherlands with the murder of that producer or the violent and stupid reaction to that cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.

Again, that is why Benedicts statement was on target and a good appeal to moderate Muslims. I was so proud of the Holy Father for having the courage to say what he did. It was a refreshing change from the Politically Correct…“The terrorists just don’t know how to express their anger at the injustice of the West so they have to blow up innocent people”. There have been several reports from Britian of home grown radicalized youth who wish to harm or at least sympathize with the brutality of radical Islam. We have to address this issue through education and so on. That is NOT implying that your Muslim neighbor is going to blow you up.:doh2:
Rev North

Great posts, Rev North!!

So now you’re insinuating that all muslims are terrorists…

When the rest of the Muslim world stands up, & turns against the terrorists, then we can talk again.

If we were living in a different time, or a different world, we wouldn’t have to have this conversation. But, right now, …unless you’re about to reveal a humongous plot on the part of a splinter group of Jains living in exile somewhere in Finland, then the facts remain: while all Muslims are **not ** terrorists, it is a fact that all modern day terrorists are Muslims.

Don’t blame** us**. We didn’t bomb the World Trade Center.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Generic Man:

The idea that Muslims are generally violent people has been heavily implied. Hateful and violent teachings? Go ask a Muslim if he hates and wishes pain upon anyone who is not Muslim. Guess what the answer will be.

You said I dodged your point? What was your point that I have not answered?

I already said that all Muslims bear collective responsibility as they CONDONE, SUPPORT and TEACH the hateful and violent teachings of their prophet.

To deny those teachings would mean those Muslims become no longer Muslims.

I think I have answered it loud and clear.

 

[pro_universal]

Generic Man,

You are wasting your time.

Most of the people who will argue with you about this simply repeat whatever they read at anti-Islamic websites.

If you look through Rodrigo Bivar’s post history, for example, you’ll find that he routinely cut and copied material from anti-Islamic websites and pasted it as if it were his own writing. No analysis, no research, no thought: just straight cut from the web, and paste without quotations.

You can’t reason with people who will repeat whatever they are told from sources like that. I wish you luck in trying, but I can’t say I expect much.

 

[dparker]

Do you not know that there are many Muslims who despise all of this stuff? Probably not, most of you guys would likely rank them along with Santa Claus and Bigfoot.

Radical islam is indeed dangerous. but what the heck does that have to do with this thread?

“We” may not know because “Muslims who despise” radicalism are a silent and apparently powerless element in the Muslim community. Understandable, really, because they are no doubt in fear for their lives.

Why else are these vast numbers of peaceful Muslims so quiet?

Or, perhaps it is because the Muslim Fundamentalists really do embrace the Fundamentals of Islam and are truly acting according to the spirit and letter of the Qur’an and are in full accordance with the life, teachings and example of Muhammad.

Either way…a tough spot to be in, I imagine.

 

[pro_universal]

“We” may not know because “Muslims who despise” radicalism are a silent and apparently powerless element in the Muslim community. Understandable, really, because they are no doubt in fear for their lives.

Why else are these vast numbers of peaceful Muslims so quiet?

Or, perhaps it is because the Muslim Fundamentalists really do embrace the Fundamentals of Islam and are truly acting according to the spirit and letter of the Qur’an and are in full accordance with the life, teachings and example of Muhammad.

Either way…a tough spot to be in, I imagine.

Dparker,

Can you please name one large Muslim organization that **has not condemned terrorism **publicly?

If you can’t name such an organization, then where do you come up with the basis for your claim that Muslims don’t condemn terrorism?

 

[swariffin]

Every negative thing? Well let’s see: Muslims can build Mosques in the United States. Catholics can’t build churches in Saudi Arabia.

That’s true, and perhaps true in most islamic country. But that is not the point for us as christian is it not? We are govern by love, and we have our own interpretation to our faith. We do not have to follow other’s way of doing things, nor other’s way of thinking. Just focus on our own faith, being developed by the holy spirit, and be the salt and the light for this unjust world. Well, the world has to be unjust, or there is no need for God to promise heaven to us. No need for us to “take revenge”. Let them do what they believe is correct, and let us do what we believe is correct. I myself live in moslem majority country. Most of my friends are moslems. All of them (yes, all) do not share the idea of terrorism who unfortunately used Islam to justily their way of thinking. For them, the terrorist are not moslems. As the American, you should be proud of yourselves for letting the moslems build their mosques within American soil. That shows that America really an adult country, and home for adult people.

 

[mesquite_magic]

Here’s an interesting thought, what do you think the average American thinks about President Truman or the crew of the Enola Gay?

My guess is they’d say, “huh, who’s that?” Ever watch Jay Walking on The Tonight Show?

I will admit that I know next to nothing about Islam. My good friend is married to an Iranian born man. I know he is a really nice person and doesn’t seem radical at all. I’d hate to see him lumped in with the extremist groups simply because he’s Muslim.

There are good and bad in all religions and all ethnicities. Remember the Murrah Building in OK City. It was a few white extremists who pulled that off. Funny how Americans aren’t screaming that all white men are bad.

Unfortunately, America can be very racist. Every decade a different group is treated poorly. We have forgotten how the Irish and Chinese immigrants were treated in the 1800’s. Let’s see, during WW2 the Japanese Americans lost their homes simply because we were at war with Japan. Appearently America forgot we were at war with Germany and Italy as well. Though, Italian immigrants suffered at one time too. During the Korean and Viet Nam wars, God help you if you look the least bit Asian. In the '80’s the Russians were the bad guys. Now we have the Arab groups to hate. Can’t forget the Hispanic Americans, and of course Native and African Americans as well.

Sad isn’t it?

Kim

 

[Generic_Man]

Actually,your first post appears to be a rant against people on this board and although I have not read the threads on Islam you seem to smear this board with a broad brush of being ignorant bigots. **You **might want to look at your first post carefully yourself.

Rev North

It was a very angry post, yes. But nothing about my post changes in that light.

Great posts, Rev North!!

When the rest of the Muslim world stands up, & turns against the terrorists, then we can talk again.

If we were living in a different time, or a different world, we wouldn’t have to have this conversation. But, right now, …unless you’re about to reveal a humongous plot on the part of a splinter group of Jains living in exile somewhere in Finland, then the facts remain: while all Muslims are **not ** terrorists, it is a fact that all modern day terrorists are Muslims.

Don’t blame** us**. We didn’t bomb the World Trade Center.

All Muslims are terrorists? Are you being hyperbolic are are you honestly such a fool? And are you insinuating that since they’res not as much anti-terrorism remarks from Muslims (or maybe those are just ignored, you know the MSM loves to hate them) they deserve no respect or tolerance or civility?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edward62:

I completely agree with you, and I applaud your great sense of justice. Just because they are different does not mean that we should be afraid of them or mean to them… a great deal might be achieved if members of each religion could hold productive diologues, and the absence of such a summit is as much our fault as theirs.

To conduct a meaning dialogue both parties must agree on what a dialogue means. To Muslims an interfaith dialogue means for you to shut up while they harangue you about how your religion is false and how their religion is true.

I’m also not keen to conduct dialogues with people who hate and wish to do me harm. Drop the sword and we shall speak as equals. But the moment you pick up that sword, dialogue time is over.

Let us talk under a flag of truce, not while you are trying to oppress or harm me and my own.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Don’t blame** us**. We didn’t bomb the World Trade Center.

Good point BUT in the latest twist of bizarre conspiracy theories supported by people such as Rosie O’Donnell who ranted about it on a program and some other crack pots…we did just that. According to their theories GWBush blew it up and that is why the building fell down as if in a controlled explosion and then we pinned it on some poor Muslims.

I feel song a coming on by Golden Earring…“I’m stepping in to the Twilight zone,”:whacky:

Or maybe it is an undiscovered plot of the Jeusit/Knights of Columbus/Masonic conspiracy to dominate the world. Hmmmmm or Fox Cable news…yeah that is the ticket.

Rev North

 

[Proletarian]

Proletarian, I think you too, along with Generic Man, need a lesson in Islam.

Absolutely, I’m always eager to learn about other peoples and cultures. However I sincerely doubt you are qualified to give me such a lesson. What are your credentials? Why should I consider you an authority on Islam?

 

[Generic_Man]

To conduct a meaning dialogue both parties must agree on what a dialogue means. To Muslims an interfaith dialogue means for you to shut up while they harangue you about how your religion is false and how their religion is true.

I’m also not keen to conduct dialogues with people who hate and wish to do me harm. Drop the sword and we shall speak as equals. But the moment you pick up that sword, dialogue time is over.

Let us talk under a flag of truce, not while you are trying to oppress or harm me and my own.

I’m ignoring you… your last post is pure bigotory.

 

[swariffin]

Dparker,

Can you please name one large Muslim organization that **has not condemned terrorism **publicly?

If you can’t name such an organization, then where do you come up with the basis for your claim that Muslims don’t condemn terrorism?

The majority of Indonesian moslems condemn terrorism. They are the Muhammadiah and the Nahdlatul Ulemas. Together, they represent almost 100% of Indonesian moslems.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Give it a rest, pro_universal. You continue the same anti-Rodrigo rants only because you have failed to land any blows for Islam on this board.

The fact that you come to a Christian board and expect us to swallow only pro-Islamic propaganda is laughable.

I stand up for all the Christians who have been oppressed by Muslims in the name of their Islamic Allah. You stand against me - which means you stand FOR the oppressors of Christians.

Good show.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What the heck, I never said that extremism isn’t a threat, stop stuffing words down my throat. I’m saying to quit the excessive fearmongering and prejudice.

You started it. Why get upset now? What did you expect from the hate filled group that we all are. Now, where’d I put my pick up truck and shotgun? Oh, it must be behind my trailer out in the hills and hollers.

CDL