I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[famdigy]

Dear Palladio,

thank you for the kind gesture but this no longer my new home, its the only home I know since I’ve been living here for most of my life. however for my parents it was the pursuit of a better life for us the children. This is something any immigrant family can relate to regardless of religion or culture.

You mentioned that Copernicus’s book was not banned by the church.

here is a quote from wikipedia

“In 1757, Copernicus’ book was removed from the Vatican’s Index Librorum Prohibitorum, the list of books banned by the Catholic Church”

 

[Palladio]

Dear Palladio,

thank you for the kind gesture but this no longer my new home, its the only home I know since I’ve been living here for most of my life. however for my parents it was the pursuit of a better life for us the children. This is something any immigrant family can relate to regardless of religion or culture.

You mentioned that Copernicus’s book was not banned by the church.

here is a quote from wikipedia

“In 1757, Copernicus’ book was removed from the Vatican’s Index Librorum Prohibitorum, the list of books banned by the Catholic Church”

Sorry I got your homeland wrong.

But it is wikipedia which is, as usual, wrong. Read Owen Gingerich for a genuine take on Copernicus.

 

[Petergee]

Not just on Non-Catholic Religions, but what feels like every single board people are saying how all muslims are violent people who want to take over the world.

Are you sure you posted this to the right site? I’ve never seen one person say this on this site.

Get a freaking grip. Everyone should just admit right here they hardly know anything about Islam apart from what they hear on the news about the latest body count from the Middle East. There are muslim terrorists and there is brutal sectarianism. Christians too have done these things in the past. Does that justify it? No but it should tell you something: that there are good and bad people of all faiths. Do you not know that there are many Muslims who despise all of this stuff? Probably not, most of you guys would likely rank them along with Santa Claus and Bigfoot.

I’m pretty sure that most people here who post about Islam know many Moslems and many of them have studied it in much depth. This site attracts precisely the typ of people who do NOT simply go by what they hear on the news. Your allegations are absurd.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

no no no… we don’t erase the words of the Creator in order to appease his creatures.

Therein lies many problems:

1. I am not a creature of the Islamic Allah. {Note: I have to say Islamic Allah all the time now because of Edwin - in case he thinks I’m referring to the Allah of the Arab Christians). Please don’t ever suppose that I am - that insults me no end.
2. The fact that you won’t erase those words (which I already knew you wouldn’t) shows that you are part of the problem - you perpetuate those ‘Hate the Infidels’ verses for the next generation of jihadists. You can’t claim to be anti-violence while you support, condone, teach and perpetuate those verses to Muslims who will act on them with violence against infidels.

Thanks for illustrating my point why ALL Muslims, including peaceful ones, are part of the problem.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Generic Man:

Not just on Non-Catholic Religions, but what feels like every single board people are saying how all muslims are violent people who want to take over the world.

I haven’t seen anyone here saying that. But I know someone who has: Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid, a Saudi cleric who is a regular of the iqra TV channel.

memritv.org/clip/en/1520.htm

Sheik Muhammad Al-Munajid: This is a nation of monotheism, and this is the Islam that Allah wants to spread throughout the world, and to rule the land it its entirety. Allah wants this. He sent down the Koran and the hadith for that purpose.

Yup - I’m sure glad there are peaceful and good Muslims around.

 

[CrypticWritings]

I haven’t seen anyone here saying that. But I know someone who has: Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid, a Saudi cleric who is a regular of the iqra TV channel.

memritv.org/clip/en/1520.htm

Sheik Muhammad Al-Munajid: This is a nation of monotheism, and this is the Islam that Allah wants to spread throughout the world, and to rule the land it its entirety. Allah wants this. He sent down the Koran and the hadith for that purpose.

Yup - I’m sure glad there are peaceful and good Muslims around.

I’m jumping into this thread late but…
May I inquire as to whether or not you are in favor of freedom of religion and it’s practice as it is in the U.S.? I was curious as I “browsed” over your thread since it caught my attention.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Countries bombed by the US in the past 25 years:

Grenada
Panama
Libya
Iraq
Iran
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Serbia
Nicaragua
El Salvador

Do all of those bombings bother you? Is the US ‘collectively responsible’ for all civilian deaths in those campaigns?

Wait, let me guess: they were all perfectly justified…right?

I’d like to recommend that you study history a bit more…some of the countries you listed are NOT correct…and why did the US drop bombs on the others?

Grenada…dropped some bombs on Cuban soldiers and revolutionary forces of the government that had overthrown the legitimate…if communist…government at the time…we invaded a country that had been invaded.

PANAMA: We overthrew a violent dictator…with the support and thanks of the locals.

Libya: State sponsor of terror.

Iraq: Invaded a nonbilligerant nation…supported terrorists…etc etc etc

Iran…we bombed Iran? When?

Lebenon: We bombed Lebenon? We might have thrown a few missles at Islamic militias…I challenge you on this one…but concede we might have in the 80’s…for the given reason.

Afghanistan: You’re darned skippy we bombed them…state sponsor of terror…protected those who planned 9-11

Serbia: Yep, I even radioed in some of the air strikes personally…they were committing GENOCIDE

Nicaraugua: When did the US bomb NIC? We supported anti Communists rebels…but when did we bomb them?

El Salvador: When did we bomb there…we incorrectly supported a nominally pro American government…but bombed?

Generally, those responsible for civilian deaths in these cases are those who are using civilians to shield themselves.

You know what would be nice to see…Moderate Muslims out in the street protesting every time the Islamists were…here in the US if the KKK is out…Christian groups are out protesting them…when the “God Hates Fags” church from Topeka is out protesting…they’re almost always outnumbered by REAL Christians protesting against them…THAT is what I personally mean when I say I want to see moderate muslims denounce Islamists.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

CrypticWritings:

I’m jumping into this thread late but…
May I inquire as to whether or not you are in favor of freedom of religion and it’s practice as it is in the U.S.? I was curious as I “browsed” over your thread since it caught my attention.

I am totally in favour of freedom of religion. What one’s beliefs are is irrelevant to anyone else. People can change religion as they change their shirts, for all I care. It’s entirely personal conscience.

 

[Palladio]

The list you demolish seems to be floating around the internet is one form or another: a long one in a Guardian blog a few months back I found quite disgusting. It must have a certain source, leftist to be sure, and circulates directly and indirectly as anti-American propaganda.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

 

[Yerusalyim]

PAL,

Thanks…the other question that should be asked…who directly killed more civilians in each of those cases the US or those we fought? Who is RESPONSIBLE for those deaths…the US or those who use civilains to shield their activities?

 

[famdigy]

dear Rodrigo,

Erasing verses of the Quran is not the solution. You want us to abandon our faith because of those who mis-interpret it?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

dear Rodrigo,

Erasing verses of the Quran is not the solution. You want us to abandon our faith because of those who mis-interpret it?

Have you considered that they are right and you are the one who are mis-interpreting it?

After all, they are using the same interpretation as Muhammad and Umar.

 

[Palladio]

PAL,

Thanks…the other question that should be asked…who directly killed more civilians in each of those cases the US or those we fought? Who is RESPONSIBLE for those deaths…the US or those who use civilains to shield their activities?

Yes, I naturally agree. We are dealing with a mentality not rich in nuance or perspective, but instead wallowing in sub-marxist bovine excreta.

I remember being in Toronto not long after 9/11, perhaps a matter of months, though it may have been just under a year later, and picking up a book by Noam Chomsky (whose political views are thought lunatic by reasonable people) that nearly induced nausea: it cast as imperial and worthy of reprisal actions abroad from the nineteenth century to 2001! This is common reading matter for the left in the U. K. and Canada.

But the problem beneath all our woes is how to revitalize the right (in what I know of history, it is easy to show up the left both here and abroad): what does it truly wish to conserve? according to what values? does it represent more than big money? what is its mission for the family?

Thanks for your post and for your service to our country.

God bless.

 

[Zooey]

I’ve seen very little “Islamophobia” on this board. Just people who reject much of what many Muslims teach and practice.

Just agreeing here…

I’m jumping into this thread late but…
May I inquire as to whether or not you are in favor of freedom of religion and it’s practice as it is in the U.S.? I was curious as I “browsed” over your thread since it caught my attention.

I can’t speak for anyone else but myself, but I am definitely in favor of freedom of religion.
I am, however, not very happy with the way it is practiced in the USA, because as a Christian, and therefore as a member of the majority faith, I have to put up with verbal abuse every time the subject of Muslims come up…We (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox)Christians are expected to give up some of our right to freedom of religion, because believing in & defending the belief in the Deity of Jesus Christ is offensive to Islam.
If we all would just say, “Oh, well, He was just a prophet”, we would be politically correct…but:

We would be denying the One Who suffered & died for our salvation.

We would be spitting in the Face of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity…who left His throne in Glory, for the sake of poor ornery people like you & me…including the ones who deny Him.

We would be calling the One Who is the Way, the Truth, & the Life, a liar & a fraud.

We would be nailing Christ to the cross of Calvary all over again.

But, that’s OK, see, because that’s what Muslims want us to say. Sorry, Charlie. When I have to make a choice between offending Muslims (who have a choice when they come to a place called Catholic Answers), and offending my Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ…There is no contest.
Freedom of religion is not freedom of religion, unless I can worship my Lord, without having to pay homage to what is, really, :nope: not a “god” at all…Allah.
I will not worship an idol.
I will not worship a pagan fertility god.
I will not call this Allah "the same as the God I worship.
I will not convert!!!

---

And that’s what really sticks in the craw of Islam.:twocents:
So, shoot me…:byzsoc:

---

 

[roman6320]

Dear Palladio,

Don’t forget that prior to the Age of enlightenment, most of the Christian world was living under the repression of the Church and King in a peasants v.s. Lords existence. With all respect for your religion, it was no thanks to Christianity that western world developed the freedom it enjoys today, rather its the fruits of the movement that advocated reason, science and rationality as the primary basis of authority above divine or natural law.

It is important to note that, while the Enlightenment did remind the Western world of the sacredness and dignity of every person created in the image of God and each person’s freedom to live as he or she saw fit, it was indeed a Christian concept they were reviving. So it is thanks, in large part to Christianity that we have our freedoms in the West.
Also, Copernicus’ book was in fact given an imprimater(official church approval) by the church when it first came out. The Church never did have a problem with the heliocentric concept, contrary to scientific mythmaking. The Church got on Galileo because he took on himself the authority of interpreting scripture even though he did not have holy orders and despite the fact that heliocentrism was not yet proven.They did allow him to teach it hypothetically. He wouldn’t do it. This in the context of the Prtestanr reformation.

 

[Montalban]

What the heck, I never said that extremism isn’t a threat, stop stuffing words down my throat. I’m saying to quit the excessive fearmongering and prejudice.

Do you think *jihad *is extreme?

It’s central to Islam, ergo, Islam is extreme

 

[Montalban]

dear Rodrigo,

Erasing verses of the Quran is not the solution. You want us to abandon our faith because of those who mis-interpret it?

You too need to read Bostom’s book The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims

He details Islamic thought over the centuries, citing from ‘great minds’ of all the major Islamic schools of thought, and, Suffism to boot!

 

[nonsumd]

With all respect for your religion, it was no thanks to Christianity that western world developed the freedom it enjoys today, rather its the fruits of the movement that advocated reason, science and rationality as the primary basis of authority above divine or natural law.

How can “reason, science, and rationality” place themselves above “natural law”? Would not the mission of those things be precisely to refine our understanding and application of “natural law”?

The freedoms of modern civil society have their roots in the medieval Catholic Church’s centuries-long campaign to limit the power of the extended family and to promote the power of non-kinship based institutions and organizations. Modern civil society would not have come into being if the Catholic Church had not asserted its autonomy from states (this while also collaborating with them) and provided a precedent and model for how non-state entities can assert themselves in the face of state power.

Enlightenment ideas separated from their Christian context are what generated the great totalitarianisms of the 20th century.

 

[Wolseley]

dear Rodrigo,

Erasing verses of the Quran is not the solution. You want us to abandon our faith because of those who mis-interpret it?

Seems to me it’s the Muslims who want Christians to abandon their faith, because the Muslims are “offended” by it.

It also seems to me that Christians were not the ones who came up with the concept of “convert, or die”.

 

[famdigy]

Have you considered that they are right and you are the one who are mis-interpreting it?

After all, they are using the same interpretation as Muhammad and Umar.

I believe that Umar although was a khalif, he did not know the proper interpretation of the Quran. I say this because historically there are many instances in which his actions contradict the Quran and he himself admits that he was too busy in the markets to learn the holy book