I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[nonsumd]

An attack by a nation state; nor was Hawaii a state at the time.

You mentioned Nazism and Bushido, so I assumed you counted nation-states attacking us too.

And why were the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor?

Because they were playing the same imperialist game (all along justifying themselves in terms of “self-defense”) that all the Western powers had been playing already (including the US – why were we in Hawai’i in the first place?).

We Americans may not be living in a glass house, but we have enormous windonws (not to mention that honking sunroof).

 

[Palladio]

You mentioned Nazism and Bushido, so I assumed you counted nation-states attacking us too.

And why were the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor?

Because they were playing the same imperialist game (all along justifying themselves in terms of “self-defense”) that all the Western powers had been playing already (including the US – why were we in Hawai’i in the first place?).

We Americans may not be living in a glass house, but we have enormous windonws (not to mention that honking sunroof).

No, I didn’t mention Nazism or Bushido: I quoted that from another post, by Wolseley I think.

It is the unprecedented nature of 9/11 for the U. S. A. that should capture our attention.

I’m afraid I don’t follow your reply, though.

God bless.

 

[nonsumd]

No, I didn’t mention Nazism or Bushido: I quoted that from another post, by Wolseley I think.

It is the unprecedented nature of 9/11 for the U. S. A. that should capture our attention.

I’m afraid I don’t follow your reply, though.

God bless.

Sorry, Palladio, if I misquoted you, but you did mention “Nazis” yourself and agreed with Wolseley’s statement that referred to Bushido as well.

When Japan attacked the US at Pearl Harbor, Japan was not attacking an innocent victim, it was attacking a fellow imperialist power.

We are naturally shocked by the unprecedented nature of the 9/11 attack, but should we really be surprised by it?

I do not condone terrorism, not by any means, but I think the only way to start to fight terrorism is being honest with ourselves about our part in creating the conditions that motivate people to engage in terrorism or to acquiesce to it when done by others.

Islamic extremist terrorism apalls and frightens me; I am not indifferent to it.

But I am more apalled and frightened for Muslims – they are far more commonly the victims of Muslim extremist violence than non-Muslims, particularly in the West, are.

 

[Palladio]

Sorry, Palladio, if I misquoted you, but you did mention “Nazis” yourself and agreed with Wolseley’s statement that referred to Bushido as well.

When Japan attacked the US at Pearl Harbor, Japan was not attacking an innocent victim, it was attacking a fellow imperialist power.

We are naturally shocked by the unprecedented nature of the 9/11 attack, but should we really be surprised by it?

I do not condone terrorism, not by any means, but I think the only way to start to fight terrorism is being honest with ourselves about our part in creating the conditions that motivate people to engage in terrorism or to acquiesce to it when done by others.

Islamic extremist terrorism apalls and frightens me; I am not indifferent to it.

But I am more apalled and frightened for Muslims – they are far more commonly the victims of Muslim extremist violence than non-Muslims, particularly in the West, are.

Thanks.

No apology necessary.

America an imperium. Not sure I can agree with that: we were dragged into two World Wars…

Should we have been surprised?

It depends: Americans were, and still should be, not least because of, again, its unprecedented example.

If you are suggesting that Islamo-terrorism is rational, and could have been avoided by better foreign policy, I would disagree.

Clearly Islam terrorizes itself insofar as, apparently, far more Muslims die from Muslim terrorism than do non-Muslims: a separate problem for those who do not live in the M E or Indonesia and elsewhere.

I think that those who, like me, fear Islamo-terrorism are completely right to do so. But that they cannot stop with fear, but instead must keep a watchful eye" pure and rational self-interest. The threat is real and continues here and abroad. That the causes for it lie within Islam and its history seems more and more clear.

 

[nonsumd]

America an imperium. Not sure I can agree with that: we were dragged into two World Wars…

True, but were we dragged into dispossessing the Native Americans? Into annexing Hawaii? Into colonizing the Philippines? Into engaging in gunboat diplomacy with most nations of the Western hemisphere?

If you are suggesting that Islamo-terrorism is rational, and could have been avoided by better foreign policy, I would disagree.

Islamic extremism is not rational, it is fanaticism.

I think, however, it would have less of an appeal to reasonable Muslims or at least be less tolerated by them if our foreign policy had been more wisely, less short-sightedly, less selfishly, and, yes, more rationally conducted.

I think that those who, like me, fear Islamo-terrorism are completely right to do so. But that they cannot stop with fear, but instead must keep a watchful eye" pure and rational self-interest. The threat is real and continues here and abroad. That the causes for it lie within Islam and its history seems more and more clear.

I fear what you call Islamo-terrorism too, but I don’t equate it with Islamic civilization as a whole or with Muslims in general.

Muslims feel threatened too and not just because some passages in the Qur’an tells them to fear non-Muslims.

 

[Palladio]

True, but were we dragged into dispossessing the Native Americans? Into annexing Hawaii? Into colonizing the Philippines? Into engaging in gunboat diplomacy with most nations of the Western hemisphere?

Islamic extremism is not rational, it is fanaticism.

I think, however, it would have less of an appeal to reasonable Muslims or at least be less tolerated by them if our foreign policy had been more wisely, less short-sightedly, less selfishy, and, yes, more rationally conducted.

I fear what you call Islamo-terrorism too, but I don’t equate it with Islamic civilization as a whole or with Muslims in general. Muslims feel threatened too and not just because some passages in the Qur’an tells them to fear non-Muslims.

Sounds as if we agree much more than not. American imperialism is a red flag, however, with as many a-historical and distorted views as there are anti-Americans. I so regret the lot of the Indians here, though it started long before we were a nation. One way to imagine ‘American imperialism’ is to compare it with Roman or English: no comparisons, only contrasts. If not for the two World Wars it is all but inconceivable that we would be in a position to be the world’s policeman, but entirely so that most of Europe would either have German or Russian as their new native language. I’m conservative and republican (small r) by nature, nurture, and conscience, so I am not happy to see young men and women away from home in harm’s way for any but the very strongest of reasons. For the same reason, I can see a future, if it excludes America as a superpower, where the Red Chinese exert new and untold influence–they who have yet to be brought to justice for the murder of tens of millions of their own people. I pray that we enter a new age of the best diplomacy and best military to keep peace.

 

[BalletGirl123]

if you think about it i’m sure that the islam people are just as afraid as we are. i mean sure there are terrorist groups but that doesnt involve all of the people so saying that the islams in a whole are something to be feared makes no sence to me. i do fear the terrorists don’t get me wrong but just innocent islamic people who do nothing wrong (as in hurting people, because everyone does something wrong) are not to be feared.

 

[nonsumd]

Sounds as if we agree much more than not.

Thanks be to God!

I tend to be more skeptical/cynical about America’s role in the world than the average conservative (though I consider myself socially conservative on many issues, especially on abortion). I do not want to be unjust to any side, including the American.

There is so much to learn about any given situation – I feel I need to know as much as possible before I can feel confident that my understanding of it is based more on facts than on my own prejudices and predilections.

 

[Palladio]

if you think about it i’m sure that the islam people are just as afraid as we are. i mean sure there are terrorist groups but that doesnt involve all of the people so saying that the islams in a whole are something to be feared makes no sence to me. i do fear the terrorists don’t get me wrong but just innocent islamic people who do nothing wrong (as in hurting people, because everyone does something wrong) are not to be feared.

Those are very nice and sensible things to say. Careful on this site, though: a lot of bad talk that might hurt you or your faith. Be sure your mom and dad know that you are here.

God bless.

 

[Palladio]

Thanks be to God!

I tend to be more skeptical/cynical about America’s role in the world than the average conservative (though I consider myself socially conservative on many issues, especially on abortion). I do not want to be unjust to any side, including the American.

There is so much to learn about any given situation – I feel I need to know as much as possible before I can feel confident that my understanding of it is based more on facts than on my own prejudices and predilections.

Glad to speak with you.

God bless.

 

[abu_kamoon]

Neo-cons made the Iranians take hold of the American embassy in Teheran in 1979 where they
held American citizens hostage for 444 days and there are still 12 bodies unaccounted for?
That was the neo-cons?

That was the CIA removal of the elected leader of Iran (because he nationalized the oil fields) and installation of the Shah. That infuriated millions of Iranians. Eventually the reaction was directed at US diplomatic personnel. And as a result, we then had to deal with an Islamic Republic. Check out this video on Youtube: Is Ron Paul serious? Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup?

Actions have consequences. The Neo Cons are good at perpetuating wars around the globe and installing a police state at home.

 

[obadiah]

Neo-cons made the Iranians take hold of the American embassy in Teheran in 1979 where they
held American citizens hostage for 444 days and there are still 12 bodies unaccounted for?
That was the neo-cons?

That was the CIA removal of the elected leader of Iran (because he nationalized the oil fields) and installation of the Shah. That infuriated millions of Iranians. Eventually the reaction was directed at US diplomatic personnel. And as a result, we then had to deal with an Islamic Republic. Check out this video on Youtube: Is Ron Paul serious? Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup?

Actions have consequences. The Neo Cons are good at perpetuating wars around the globe and installing a police state at home.

Very good point. Do you have more info about the elected leader who was deposed by the evil CIA who installed the Shah on to the Peacock throne?
For some reason, the link to youtube did not appear.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Not every Moslem is violent and it is certainly absurd to imply otherwise.

However, anyone that is not aware of the brute violence used in trying to convert people or keep people from converting, not to mention the suicide bombing, destruction, violence to supress independent thought and women… is niave. The Pope (Benedict) was absolutely correct and the moderate Muslims need to bring these other forces under control.

Radical elements in Islam seek to get their way through intimidation and violence. Women stoned to death in Saudi Arabia for riding in cars with a man they are not married to, women murdered by Taliban in Afghanistan for all sorts of minor offenses (while vendors sell snacks in the stadium), banned from practicing medicene, etc. Beheadings, behandings, murder for beliefs, etc. Radical Islam is ignorant, brutal and anti civilization. It is horrible and comes across as muder incorporated. Again, Benedict XVI is correct. Moderate Muslims need to band together and suppress this so that they can get their message out there.

Yes Christianity has done some not so nice things but this is 2007 and not 1597. Who would want to live under the hellish world created by radical Islam in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Rev North

Im sure that the majority of Muslims are not violent but it wont be them who change governments once the majorities of Muslims are in charge. IMHO, Peaceful Muslims in charge of western legislatures will no doubt be pressured into instigating Sharia law mindsets into laws being passed and if not may have to brave threats of bodily harm and even death if these fanatics arent heeded. We need more moderate Muslim demonstrating against their more fundamental Muslim brothers to cease their antics and their danger to life and limb. But where are the moderates demonstrating???

 

[guanophore]

Once you think about it, The nuclear bombings on Japan probably took more innocent lives than Islamic terrorists. With just two bombs!

I doubt that, but it still does not make it right.

The idea that Muslims are generally violent people has been heavily implied. Hateful and violent teachings? Go ask a Muslim if he hates and wishes pain upon anyone who is not Muslim. Guess what the answer will be.

There are probably as many lukewarm or nominal Muslims as there are Catholics, or Christians. Ask most "Christians’ if they are willing to die for their faith! Guess what the answer will be?

 

[obadiah]

Check out this video on Youtube: Is Ron Paul serious? Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup?

Actions have consequences. The Neo Cons are good at perpetuating wars around the globe and installing a police state at home.

Where is the video from youtube ?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Where is the video from youtube ?

You want to know what a police state is? Live in the USSR. America is NOT a police state. Exaggeration does not prove your case.

 

[obadiah]

You want to know what a police state is? Live in the USSR. America is NOT a police state. Exaggeration does not prove your case.

I never said the USA is a police state. I’m only asking about a video.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I never said the USA is a police state. I’m only asking about a video.

I’m sorry that last comment wasn’t meant for you. I should have made it clear. I should have addressed it to Abu Kamoon.
Abu Kamoon:

Actions have consequences. The Neo Cons are good at perpetuating wars around the globe and installing a police state at home.

Cheers.

 

[jedi]

Rodrigo Bivar is so right in most of his statement, maybe he lived in muslim country before.

God bless Rodrigo. he won’t betray Yesus. if all the western people just like Rodrigo, then European and america is safe. the european root of christian is safe…

 

[obadiah]

I’m sorry that last comment wasn’t meant for you. I should have made it clear. I should have addressed it to Abu Kamoon.

Cheers.

No problem. USA ALL THE WAY ( except for Bush).