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Palladio
Guest
It is way off topic: you got us here with your aggressive appeal to incredulity.
But you won’t search a library catalogue to read a book?
Very poor.
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But you won’t search a library catalogue to read a book?
Very poor.
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Montalban
Guest
You’re the one making the appeal to incredulity!
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obadiah
Guest
Back to Islam.Yes, it’s all false (how about that for an appeal)
WWW’s available for you.
You do that !
O
obadiah
Guest
Palladio originally got us off topic. Back to Islam
O
obadiah
Guest
BACK TO THE TOPIC. I.E. ISLAM.
O
obadiah
Guest
YOU ARE THE ONE THAT THREW THE TOPIC OFF. BACK TO ISLAM
O
obadiah
Guest
AL HAMDULILAH. ( Thanks be to God,)
P
Palladio
Guest
I corrected an historical analogy by a previous poster by pointing out facts. The very clear purpose was to prevent any facile equations of Islamo-terrorism with any other sort, e.g., the IRA.
You finished with a brave flourish of ignorance by insisting on believing that the IRA is a Catholic organization, whatever that means, and resolving, apparently, to read no books. It was just such ignorance I was trying to correct, as another poster also saw. You flatly and stubbornly denied him, too.
You are the cause of this, from sheer and willed ignorance.
It’s never too late to learn.
God bless.
F
famdigy
Guest
Rodrigo says Internal Jihad has nothing to do with extending good will to non-muslims. This is simply not true because internal Jihad includes extending good will to all of humanity be it Muslim or not. It includes regulating our human instincts, such as anger, passion, lust etc…
The Quran says
“Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just…” Quran 60:8
And what better examples of kindness and Just behavior do we have other than the prophet muhammad (sa) and his blessed family.
After the battle at Karbala Iraq, in 680AD between the Umayad dynasty’s Yazid I and the prophet muhammad’s (sa) relatives. The prophet Muhammad’s (sa) family were taken prisoners and forced to march from Iraq to Syria on foot, they were paraded from town to town, city to city. One of the prisoners was the Prophet’s grandson Ali bin Hussain, shackled and chained, tired and thirsty. During one of their frequent stops, a man named hasin bin namir was in charge of the prisoners, giving them food and some water. When he reached the prophet’s grandson, this man denied him water and poured it on the sand instead. Many years later after he has been released from the prison the tables had turned. The prophet’s grandson was back in Makka and Hasin bin namir lost his post and became destitute, seeking food and water he ran into a man that was well provisioned and begged for some water, when he saw the marks on his wrists he recognized this is the same man he escorted as a prisoner a few years back, he asked if he recognized him and the prophet’s grandson answered
I know that you are the murderer of my brother and father and that you denied my father water and food till his martyrdom but that shows who you are and my generosity shows what I am, we are not of those who are vindictive, the water and food he provided was because hasin was a human being in need.
This is the example of generosity, kindness, and forgiveness we follow and aspire to imitate in the internal Jihad against ourselves and why we refuse to accept the interpretation of the narrow minded puritans.
Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good (Quran 3:134)
The Quran says
“Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just…” Quran 60:8
And what better examples of kindness and Just behavior do we have other than the prophet muhammad (sa) and his blessed family.
After the battle at Karbala Iraq, in 680AD between the Umayad dynasty’s Yazid I and the prophet muhammad’s (sa) relatives. The prophet Muhammad’s (sa) family were taken prisoners and forced to march from Iraq to Syria on foot, they were paraded from town to town, city to city. One of the prisoners was the Prophet’s grandson Ali bin Hussain, shackled and chained, tired and thirsty. During one of their frequent stops, a man named hasin bin namir was in charge of the prisoners, giving them food and some water. When he reached the prophet’s grandson, this man denied him water and poured it on the sand instead. Many years later after he has been released from the prison the tables had turned. The prophet’s grandson was back in Makka and Hasin bin namir lost his post and became destitute, seeking food and water he ran into a man that was well provisioned and begged for some water, when he saw the marks on his wrists he recognized this is the same man he escorted as a prisoner a few years back, he asked if he recognized him and the prophet’s grandson answered
I know that you are the murderer of my brother and father and that you denied my father water and food till his martyrdom but that shows who you are and my generosity shows what I am, we are not of those who are vindictive, the water and food he provided was because hasin was a human being in need.
This is the example of generosity, kindness, and forgiveness we follow and aspire to imitate in the internal Jihad against ourselves and why we refuse to accept the interpretation of the narrow minded puritans.
Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good (Quran 3:134)
Z
Zooey
Guest
I’m tired of little old Irish ladies strapping pastic explosives to their walkers and blowing themselves up at the Wal-Mart.
Gee, Scott, you’ve
ruined my plans for the weekend. 
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
there was a born again christian teenager who blew up a mosque in saudi arabia. christianity is a religion of violence because of this 1 out of 2billion incident.
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famdigy
Guest
Hey zooey thats a cool emoticon :bowdown:
Its how we Muslims pray. I’m curious, do Christians pray like that as well?
Its how we Muslims pray. I’m curious, do Christians pray like that as well?
S
Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Some do, yes.
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
Sometimes. Christians pray in various ways.
Some christians pray like this…
Some pray like this…
some like this…
:grouphug:
some like this…
even like this…
:crying:
G
Genesis315
Guest
At certain times, Catholics pray prostrate:
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nonsumd
Guest
Our Holy Father of blessed memory, Pope John Paul II, officially and publicly apologized for all the sins committed by Catholics in the name of Christ and the Catholic Church including against Muslims.
He did not seem it was wrong to feel guilty and beg for forgiveness for the evil Christians do in spite of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
He did not make excuses like “but the non-Catholics started it first…”
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nonsumd
Guest
If you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that I essentially agree with you. Muslims do believe that even Adam was a Muslim, indeed the first prophet of Islam.
All I was saying was that the Qur’an in that particular passage does seem to allow Muslims to give Jews and Christians the “benefit of the doubt” as to whether they are genuine followers of the revelations given to their prophets.
History shows Muslims giving Jews and Christians this “benefit of the doubt” as well as, of course, showing Muslims not giving them it.
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nonsumd
Guest
Nonsense.
Just because some Christians abuse the Gospel does not mean that I should be condemned if I still want to proclaim the Gospel.
If the shoe fits, wear it. Bigots are still human beings, and a human being who is acting inhumanely is still a human being. It was you who cried “ad hominem” and so I just played around with your language.
BTW, you claim that you do not hate your Muslim relatives. I shudder to think how you would talk about their religion if you actually did hate them.
I just think to declare Islam an evil religion is simply to ignore the complexity of reality, which includes the fact that many Muslims draw the inspiration to do good, including to non-Muslims, from their religion.
As a Catholic Christian, I can listen all day to people listing all the evil done by Christians and all the scriptural passages that can be read (and often are often hard to avoid reading) as commanding violence and other evil, but that will not make me “admit” that Christianity is an “evil religion.”
I do not mind reminding Muslims that Muslims have done evil in the name of Islam. I would not even shrink from pointing out to them that state-building is central to Islam but not to Christianity and that does have implications for how legitimate the use of force is.
But I will not tell them their religion is evil or nothing but evil because I see there is some good in it and it has inspired many of its followers to do good.
I am tired of all this talking about religions motivating people in isolation from other factors.
A Muslim who engages in terrorism and one who does not are reading the same Qur’an, aren’t they? Do we explain why one is a terrorist and the other not a terrorist by asserting that the Qur’an teaches a message of violence and nothing else, nothing to counter the message of violence?
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Moneo
Guest
This is fine as far as it goes. But exactly how far does it go? Let’s address just the Crusades here. Did the Holy Father apologise for the Crusades? No. Oh, that’s what the secular news sources said he did, but it isn’t what he said. He apologised for the sins committed by Catholics during the Crusades, but never did he say it was wrong for European Catholics to undertake the Crusades, nor did he say that everything done during the Crusades was sinful.
From an interview with Dr. Thomas Madden of St. Louis University about the subject of the Crusades:
The full text of the interview can be found here.
There is no evidence that he felt guilty, since feeling guilty for something in which one has not been personally involved doesn’t make any sense and is pointless. There is evidence that he felt, as the Church’s chief pastor and principal teacher, the need to make some sort of statement about the sins committed by Christians during the Crusades and at other points in history.
No, he didn’t. But he also did not say that it was a mistake or a sin for the Catholics of that time to respond militarily to Islamic aggression. It bears repeating: he apologised for the sins that the Catholics who participated in the Crusades, but he did not condemn the Crusades or even apologise for them.
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nonsumd
Guest
Are you telling me that Latin Catholics only started persecuting Jews in 1215?
As soon as Christianity became the official religion, as opposed to a tolerated one, of the Roman empire (under Theodosius I), Christians started to impose restrictions on Jews to remind them that they had rejected Christ.
Lines from the Gospel such as the Jews being quoted as saying “Let his [Jesus’] blood be upon us and our children” have been taken time and again as justification for suppressing the Jews. Some Christians have even argued that not giving the Jews an easy life was showing “Christian charity” to them because they would have the incentive to convert.
Of course, suppressing Christians would not be central to Christianity!
Some people (I don’t agree with them) argue that hostility towards Jews is central to Christianity. They point to the way the Gospels themselves talk about “the Jews.”
It is an unfortunate fact that eras of great Christian piety, of what we nowadays would call “revival,” have often been accompanied by an increase in violence against the Jews.
It was a wonderful that the early Franciscans succeeded in focusing Christians on the human sufferings of Christ. Unfortunately, focusing on the Passion led many Christians to obsess about the Jews as “deicides” and to attack and kill Jews in order to “avenge” Christ (the popes themselves spoke out against such perversions of devotion to the Suffering Christ).
But let me repeat, Christians do not persecute Jews only because they believe (I think wrongly) that their religion is telling them to – there are always many other factors motivating such hatred - economic rivalry, class tension, political calculations, etc.
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