I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[nonsumd]

This is fine as far as it goes. But exactly how far does it go? Let’s address just the Crusades here. Did the Holy Father apologise for the Crusades? No. Oh, that’s what the secular news sources said he did, but it isn’t what he said. He apologised for the sins committed by Catholics during the Crusades, but never did he say it was wrong for European Catholics to undertake the Crusades, nor did he say that everything done during the Crusades was sinful…

I agree with everything that you have written.

I do not argue that that the Crusades were absolutely wrong any more than I would say that there are no circumstances under which a just war could be waged.

The common Muslim view that the Crusades were unprovoked aggression and nothing more is wrong as well.

 

[nonsumd]

If you love Islam so much, CONVERT. ISLAM IS A BLOODY RELIGION. Why do you as a Catholic defend the ANTICHRIST?

obadiah, calm down.

It is you who are saying that I “love Islam.”

You equate not hating the totality of it with “loving it.”

If I were to hate absolutely everything taught by Islam, I would have to reject the idea that God is one and that God is merciful and compassionate, meaning I would be rejecting things that Christianity also teaches.

I would have to assume that when I see a Muslim showing kindness to anyone, including a non-Muslim, that it is the Devil’s malice working in him and not God’s grace.

I have met many anti-Catholic Protestant posters who speak of Catholicism in a way that forces me to conclude that their “Christianity” consists of nothing but hating Catholicism. Now I meet many whose talk suggests to me that their “Christianity” consists of nothing but hating Islam.

In any case, I do not “love” Islam (what could it mean to “love” a set of ideas?), but I love Muslims (or, more accurately, try to). Our Lord teaches us that we should love our enemies, so I should love even those Muslims who hate me as an “infidel.”

 

[Booklover]

Buddy, buddy, buddy,

You project your Christian sensibilities onto Muslims and Islam. I tell you the truth about Islam and you don’t believe me even when I show you the naked evidence from their scriptures. You don’t challenge the scriptures but talk out of ignorance. You then accuse me of hatred for revealing the hatred for Christians in Islam.

Rodrigo

This is the problem with many people, they make the mistake of believing that the Muslim mindset is the same as ours.

Vickie

 

[KimL]

obadiah, calm down.

It is you who are saying that I “love Islam.”

You equate not hating the totality of it with “loving it.”

If I were to hate absolutely everything taught by Islam, I would have to reject the idea that God is one and that God is merciful and compassionate, meaning I would be rejecting things that Christianity also teaches.

I would have to assume that when I see a Muslim showing kindness to anyone, including a non-Muslim, that it is the Devil’s malice working in him and not God’s grace.

I have met many anti-Catholic Protestant posters who speak of Catholicism in a way that forces me to conclude that their “Christianity” consists of nothing but hating Catholicism. Now I meet many whose talk suggests to me that their “Christianity” consists of nothing but hating Islam.

In any case, I do not “love” Islam (what could it mean to “love” a set of ideas?), but I love Muslims (or, more accurately, try to). Our Lord teaches us that we should love our enemies, so I should love even those Muslims who hate me as an “infidel.”

 

[blacktiger057]

I’d have to agree with the starter of this thread. There are way more posts here that are meant to anger muslims than there are to anger Wiccans, and hat really surprises me. Hardly any of them are terrorists. Besides, it’s not likke there isn’t one person on earth who calls himself Catholic and is on drugs and is a murderer. You’d say, “Well, he isn’t a true Catholic.” The same applies here: terrorists are not true Muslims.

 

[AgnosTheist]

There are way more posts here that are meant to anger muslims

And so what?

 

[pismopal]

The evidence I have seen and I follow the subject very closely, indicates to me that the term “angry Muslim” is redundant.

 

[Moneo]

I agree with everything that you have written.

I do not argue that that the Crusades were absolutely wrong any more than I would say that there are no circumstances under which a just war could be waged.

The common Muslim view that the Crusades were unprovoked aggression and nothing more is wrong as well.

This is very good to hear, though I didn’t automatically suppose that you would, despite the number of people that do. What I said was more to sound you out than anything else. This means that we could have (I believe) some very interesting and productive conversations as a result.

By the way, where does the photos on your posts come from? Is it a mosaic vault in Rome or something. It’s really lovely.

 

[KimL]

The evidence I have seen and I follow the subject very closely, indicates to me that the term “angry Muslim” is redundant.

Just because some Muslims dont show or have compassion does not mean we should follow in their foot steps!

this forum (as others) do have members that are very hateful toward Muslims and others. To be honest this type of discussion and person should be banned because it makes us all look bad and it brings the forum down as well as bring in the trolls.

 

[Montalban]

Just because some Muslims dont show or have compassion does not mean we should follow in their foot steps!

Unless that Moslem is Muhammed - whom Moslems believe to be the ideal-type Moslem.

this forum (as others) do have members that are very hateful toward Muslims and others. To be honest this type of discussion and person should be banned because it makes us all look bad and it brings the forum down as well as bring in the trolls.

That’s right. All intolerant people should not be tolerated! (unless their Moslem - in which case make ample argument for them)

 

[Aramis]

I’d have to agree with the starter of this thread. There are way more posts here that are meant to anger muslims than there are to anger Wiccans, and hat really surprises me. Hardly any of them are terrorists.

I’d say that they are meant not “to anger muslims” but to “defend the faith against muslims’ misrepresentations of themselves.”

And, for the most part, Wiccans are far more like Christians than many care to admit in their moral viewpoint than muslims are; still, a goodly way apart. For the Wiccan Rede: “Do what thou whilst, aine ye harm none,” is a far sight more in line with the the messages of Christ: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and love your neighbor as yourself. Further, Wiccans, as a “body” are far less likely to preach.

AS with any sola scriptura religion, Islam has a strong tendency of the extremists to be the most vocal. Violent extremest groups tend to be both very visible, and very effective at dominating sola scriptura faiths.

Islam is a sola scriptura faith, and one that advocates both repression of non-members, and constant struggle to advance the faith; the combination is often a prescription for violent struggle to repress, oppress, or even murder non-members

Besides, it’s not likke there isn’t one person on earth who calls himself Catholic and is on drugs and is a murderer. You’d say, “Well, he isn’t a true Catholic.” The same applies here: terrorists are not true Muslims.

A Catholic who is a terrorist is not living up to the message of their primary source texts: the Gospels and the Epistles; they in fact obviously break the rules lain out therein. A muslim who is a terrorist is merely taking an extreme view of the content of the Quran.

that IS a huge difference.

 

[Montalban]

If you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that I essentially agree with you. Muslims do believe that even Adam was a Muslim, indeed the first prophet of Islam.

All I was saying was that the Qur’an in that particular passage does seem to allow Muslims to give Jews and Christians the “benefit of the doubt” as to whether they are genuine followers of the revelations given to their prophets.

No. Any tolerant passages were abrogated. Muhammed was a man of cunning and when he needed to get on with Jews and Christians remarkably coincidentally the Koran advocated this too. Later he’d exterminate such groups - hence the Banu Quaresh, a Jewish tribe that was a major ally, don’t exist anymore… Muhammed over saw the execution of them, AFTER they had surrendered.

History shows Muslims giving Jews and Christians this “benefit of the doubt” as well as, of course, showing Muslims not giving them it.

History shows Moslems acting according to needs.

 

[RevDrNorth]

The evidence I have seen and I follow the subject very closely, indicates to me that the term “angry Muslim” is redundant.

Look folks…there are wonderful Muslims and not so wonderful (just like Roman Catholics, etc). But…Islam has almost single handledly managed its own bad publicity. From the almost daily massive murderous stupidity of blowing up innocent men, women and children at bus stops…eating lunch…etc in an effort to get free virgins in heaven…to murderous tirades over comics and anything else they don’t like. When adults go on these rages in civilized society we put them in Pyschiatric care facilities. That does not even touch on the brutal oppression and murder of women, those of other faiths, etc.

This mess IS theirs to clean up. Misplaced, whiny politically correct nonsense and “Oh they are just excitable” will not fix it. The moderate Muslims are going to have get in there and tighten down the screws on the uncivilized behavior of extremists. Period.

It has nothing to do with my peaceable Muslim neighbor whom I would go out of my way to protect.

Rev North

 

[pismopal]

KimL

You would ban me because I have said something that you consider hateful about Muslims. I am sorry that you are so easilly offended but I must warn you that it is within the tenents of Islam that you lose your civil and religious rights when Muslims come to power. This is not me speaking, it is direct from the Koran-Hadith and Sura.
I hope you are able to toughen up because what is in store for Christians if Muslims come into power will be harder to take than a little dark humor.
Please go down to the local library and do some reading. I don’t do a very good job of being the gentle Christian I admit but sometimes these things just boggle my mind. Even our Holy Father’s life was threatened for speaking far more candidly.
Do you not think these people are serious?

 

[nonsumd]

The evidence I have seen and I follow the subject very closely, indicates to me that the term “angry Muslim” is redundant.

That is a statement of sheer bigotry…

Someone can stare at the sky for a week, but if he’s wearing red-tinted glasses the whole time he will conclude that the sky is red.

 

[nonsumd]

This is the problem with many people, they make the mistake of believing that the Muslim mindset is the same as ours.

Vickie

Vickie, there is a whole range of “Muslim mundsets” out there, just as there is a whole range of “Christian mindsets.”

If you are arrogating to yourself the right to say that only one of those Muslim mindsets is the “genuine” one, you are thinking just like the Muslim extremists whom we all fear.

The Muslim extremists take the worst examples of Christian behavior as the basis upon which to condemn all Christians. What does it serve us Christians to return that particular favor?

 

[Zooey]

Well, since we’re all being accused of being “rabid”:

cartoonstock.com/lowres/cga0254l.jpg

 

[retrovert]

I’ll have to admit I’m one of those Islamophobes you’re talking about. In fact give me a horse and a coat of armor. I’m ready for the crusades…

 

[nonsumd]

Look folks…there are wonderful Muslims and not so wonderful (just like Roman Catholics, etc). But…Islam has almost single handledly managed its own bad publicity…

This mess IS theirs to clean up. Misplaced, whiny politically correct nonsense and “Oh they are just excitable” will not fix it. The moderate Muslims are going to have get in there and tighten down the screws on the uncivilized behavior of extremists. Period.

It has nothing to do with my peaceable Muslim neighbor whom I would go out of my way to protect.

I am glad to hear you’d protect your Muslim neighbor.

I am no less frustrated that moderate Muslims do not make more of an effort to oppose the extremists, but look at your own language, “tighten the screws.” The authoritarian governments (including Saddam himself) which Western powers have been propping up were doing quite an adequate job of suppressing extremists. Those sorts of regimes certainly knew literally how to tighten the screws.

And what is the result? Moderate Muslims alienated from our client states (even one that often undermines our interests lkike Saudi Arabia is at the end of the day a client state of ours) and ever more receptive to the extremists’ message. It is not just extremists on the Muslim side whose actions are polarizing the relationship between Muslims and Christians/Jews.

What is this “mess” that afflicts so much of the Islamic world? Is it just that mess created by extremist violence? Or does it include the mess which we in the West have had a hand in making in the Islamic world for the last two centuries? That mess to which extremist terrorism is a response, if a horribly and inexcusably misguided one?

I don’t consider what I am saying to reflect “political correctness” – just intellectual honesty, without which there can be no political realism that is other than rationalizing one’s own will to power.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pismopal forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
The evidence I have seen and I follow the subject very closely, indicates to me that the term “angry Muslim” is redundant.

Just because some Muslims dont show or have compassion does not mean we should follow in their foot steps!

this forum (as others) do have members that are very hateful toward Muslims and others.

Question for you: Is it “permissible” to love the sinner and hate the sin?

I love all moslems as people, but I “do not like” their sin of moslem-ness.

Am I to be banned?

To be honest this type of discussion and person should be banned because it makes us all look bad and it brings the forum down as well as bring in the trolls.

What does “make look bad” mean?

What does “brings the forum down” mean?

What do YOU mean by “troll”?

If you’re going to pronounce “banning” for these behaviors, let’s understand what you mean by your terms.

Thanks. Looking forward to your meaningful response to these questions.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.