I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[obadiah]

^ hey wheres your sense of humor?

sorry, I just don’t want people to think I’m trying to convert others to islam.

 

[Keikiolu]

The hatred against Muslims has been created by our politicians and mainstream media. There are over a billion Muslims in the world. What percentage do you think are involved in terrorism?

Very small,… but big enough.

Big enough for what? Stay tuned for more of the Jihad, after these commercial messages…!

Look at the major wars of the Twentieth Century. I am referring to World Wars One and Two, Korea, and Viet Nam. Not much Muslim involvement, I’d say.

How much fighting do you suppose there was between the various moslem peoples during these time periods?

Just because they didn’t have the “big guns” doesn’t mean they weren’t “fighting it out” as best they could.

Political science professor emeritus Rudolph Rummel, from the University of Hawaii, wrote a book in 1994 intitled DEATH BY GOVERNMENT. Professor Rummel determined that there were some 38 milliion battle deaths in the Twentieth Century. At least 170 million people were killed by their own governments during this period for various ethnic, racial, tribal or political reasons. Another fact, of the 60 million deaths during World War Two, only 16 million involved combatants.

And how many would be killed if there WERE NO GOVERNMENTS…?

Anarchists are funny funny people.

Statistically, you have a much better chance of being killed by your own government, than being killed in a war, let alone by “Muslim” terrorists.

Your point being? Does it minimize being killed by a terrorist if you have a government to “worry about”…?

The threat of terrorism, specifically from Islamic groups is being used to create a police state here in the US.

The “police state” to the anarcho-juvenile is code-speak for “Papa”.

“Papa won’t give me everything that I want, so I show him and go to war with him…!!”

Many Americans are welcoming the idea of politicians spying on them, searches without warrants, detaining individuals indefinitely without charges, secret trials and torture.

Does everyone feel that “warm fuzzy” satisfaction that the “persecution complex” arises in EVERY new generation…?

I do.

I really think the Islamic fears pale in comparison to what is going on right now in this country.

You can read about Professor Rummel at this website:

fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=4936

You keep thinking that way, little one.

It’s SO much easier to kick at the target that is “Dad” than the really scarey guys outside.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[abu_kamoon]

Let me start again by stating that I am not a Muslim, nor an apologist for Islam. I am a Catholic. That said, let me relate my experiences with Muslims. I lived in Morocco for 17 months and Iraq for 11.

I have never met a Muslim who was offended by Christians or Christianity. I never heard a Muslim insult Christians or Christianity. I have always been treated kindly and respectfully by the Muslims that I have met.

Obviously, there are radical Muslims who are intolerant. The radical Muslims are ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them, Muslim or not. But they are not representative of most Muslims.

Because Muslims don’t recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ, seeing him as a prophet, is that cause to hate them? Do you feel the same way about Jews?

We don’t accept Muhammed as a prophet in Christianity, whereas the Jews reject Jesus Christ. Freedom of religion means that we are free to believe what we will. I think some people need to learn a little tolerance.

Those of you who get your opinions from what you see in the media, let me ask you a question. If you had never met a black person, and had to base your opinion of black people on what you saw in the media: gangsters, drug dealers, “rap artists” and thugs, how would you feel about them?

The media in the country is dedicated to producing propaganda for our politicians. Much of that propaganda is aimed at producing hatred. Blacks have been portrayed as criminal buffons by the media, while our politicians come up with programs like “Affirmative Action” All Affirmative Action does is to portray blacks as incapable of competing against whites. This creates friction between blacks and whites.

Muslims are also targeted. Certainly there are terrorist groups in the Middle East, but they are not reflective of most Muslims. Some Americans say: why don’t you peaceful Muslims speak up? Well, they do. You hear them on the Catholic Forum all the time. People argue with them.

Why don’t you hear Muslims in the media speaking out against terrorism? Because they don’t fit in with the message the media present.

Gun owners get the same treatment. Anytime a firearm is used to prevent a crime, it is not newsworthy. It doesn’t fit the message.

Catholic priests are presented as homosexual abusers. No one denies that there are some, but the perception given by the media is that they all are.

Muslims are people, just like everybody else. Some are good and some are bad.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Let me start again by stating that I am not a Muslim, nor an apologist for Islam. I am a Catholic. That said, let me relate my experiences with Muslims. I lived in Morocco for 17 months and Iraq for 11.
…
Muslims are people, just like everybody else. Some are good and some are bad.

Fair enough,abu kamoon; Because you are indeed correct.

But let’s forget about muslims, because the nature of this thread is “islamophobia” (and not “muslimaphobia”).

Have you ever studied or researched Islam and it’s lone messenger, Muhammed? Have you ever read the Qu’ran and the Hadiths? Please tell.

 

[roman6320]

You see - there you have made a FUNDAMENTAL mistake that novices make. You have equated someone behaving AGAINST the teachings of Jesus Christ with someone behaving ACCORDING to the teachings of Muhammad.

No I equated someone commiting violence in the name of one religion with one commiting violence in the name of another.

Violence is evil, right? Let us take that as a premise.

Christians commit violence AGAINST the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Preaching to the choir here.

However…

Muslim terrorist commit violence ACCORDING TO the teachings of Muhammad.

That’s the problem!!! Are these acts in fact according to the teaching of Mohammed? Yes there are many militant verses in the Koran, but were they meant as eternal principles for Muslims to live by for all time or were they only for a specific time and context, as were the aformentioned Old Testament verses? I have heard Muslims say the latter. Again it is for the Islamic community to decide.

I will grant you that Islamic efforts to reform and reinterpret Islam my fail. It’s big weakness is that it is not an institution that can exist as seperate from the state like the Catholic Church does. Also, at the risk of drawing a fatwa, I believe Mohammed’s biggest blunder was not naming a succesor or any authority to interpret Islam. For these reason’s Islam has been at the mercy of any group with power enough to interpret the Koran as they like.
There is a concept of independent reasoning in Islam called ijtihad, in which scholars could study a question and offer a ruling.But
“In the eleventh century, however, to consolidate their control, the Sunni ulama crysallized their legal judgements into various schools of Islamic jurisprudence and bannedijthad. With the gates of independent interpretation closed, the traditionalists imposed there own conservative positions on mainstream Islamic jurisprudence, and these have remained largely frozen for almost a milleniaum.”(Foriegn Affairs,Jan.-Feb., 2006 p. 26)

In sum, there is plenty to legitimately criticize Islamic civilization for, both now and in the past, but to make generalizations about Islam being an intrinsically violent religion is going too far. It is theoretically possible that the Muslim to take a more peaceful attitude towards the world. Or it may be that the extremist may take over completely. We can’t presume to know the outcome. We also can’t discourage those who would reinterpret Islam by telling them there faith is violent by nature.

Thanks,
Rodrigo

 

[roman6320]

This is a lie.

No it isn’t! It is historical fact.

Besides, according to Islamic law made up by Muhammad all the Muslims deserved to die for apostatizing from paganism.

The above doesn’t make any sense. I thought Mohammed wanted people to convert from paganism.

Quit your double-standards.

What double standards?

Another lie.

No Again fact.

Besides - that hardly excuses your collective punishments against the innocent women and children whom Muhammad exiled or enslaved.

Please quit your Islamo apologetics.

I do not condone any of the bad things Mohammed did do. Nor am I an Islamic apologist, believe me. I have no love for Islamic civilization. my concern is making knee jerk reactions and generalizations such as Islam being intrinsically violent. Christians did that to the Jews in the middle ages and we are still trying to live that down. We can not make that same mistake with the Muslims.

 

[roman6320]

I too am sick and tired of so called christians defending evil antichrist islam. Either take shahada and become muslim, or repent and read your Bible.

I am not defending Islam. I am only criticizing extreme and simplisic views on a complicated situation. As Christians we are to do everything in the spirit of love and truth.(I DO read my Bible) We are also to be peacemakers. Calling Islam evil does none of these things.(anti Christic? Okay. that is a fair criticism)
There is plenty in Islamic history that infuriates me. Much of how Islam was used was indeed evil. But I have to make a distinction between Islamic religion /I and the civilization that misused it. I also have to acknowledge those Muslims who are trying to live down the violent and imperialist past and become people of peace and are trying to reinterpret Islam in that light. As Christians it behooves us not to make simple generalizations that cause insult and pain.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I am not defending Islam. I am only criticizing extreme and simplisic views on a complicated situation. As Christians we are to do everything in the spirit of love and truth.(I DO read my Bible) We are also to be peacemakers. Calling Islam evil does none of these things.(anti Christic? Okay. that is a fair criticism)
There is plenty in Islamic history that infuriates me. Much of how Islam was used was indeed evil. But I have to make a distinction between Islamic *religion ***
While not every Muslim is violent, Islam itself is inherently violent. Violence and hatred against disbelievers is a core doctrine - in explicit detail in the Quran.

You cannot equate past Christian anti-semitism with Islamic anti-disbelievers because of the simple fact that the Bible does not teach anti-semitism. Jesus Christ did not tell his followers to persecute Jews. If any Christians did that - then they have done so without his approval.

That is not the same with Islam. Muhammad himself told Muslims to hate and commit violence against disbelievers.

I hope you will come to see the difference.

 

[abu_kamoon]

Have you ever studied or researched Islam and it’s lone messenger, Muhammed? Have you ever read the Qu’ran and the Hadiths? Please tell.

I can’t read Arabic (actually, I can read the letters, but I don’t know the language). For that reason, I can only read translations. I am more interested in what Muslims have to say about it.

If they don’t have a problem with non-Muslims, that’s good enough for me. I can get along with anyone who is friendly and respectful. I don’t judge others, or their beliefs. I have no problem holding people accountable for their actions, though.

If others want to be friendly, we should respond. When we attack others for their beliefs (or what we have read about their beliefs, in translations), we needlessly make enemies.

If a person doesn’t attack me, I certainly will not attack them. I would rather have a friend than an enemy.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Thank you, abu kamoon;

(Can I assume that you have not read the translations? You weren’t specific.)

I’m glad that you have friends who are peaceful muslims. I hope peace follows you where ever you go.

But considering you have not read the Qur’an and Hadiths, you do not understand the concern; You do not understand the foundations of “Islamophobia”. But I hope peace and respect is long lived between you and peaceful muslims.

 

[Aramis]

I have never been to a muslim country. I have never been to an arabic-speaking country.

I have had my life threatened by muslims 3 times in the last 2 years, on all occasions for being openly Christian, rather than secular. All within 100 miles of my residence, in fact.

I have had my life, my freedom to travel inside my own country, and my right to privacy trampled because of a dozen or two angry muslims who decided to hijack a few planes and use them as weapons.

I have known few muslims, and have seen much violence done in the name of the Allah of the Muslims, albeit remotely. I have never met an obvious muslim who was not openly in favor of violence against at least some non-muslims. All the muslims I’ve gotten to know have shown me that they consider all non-muslims grist for the mill of muslim aggression. Even a 12 year old citing the Qu’ran to justify lying to teachers.

A muslim man used being muslim as an affirmative defense for beating his wife to death in the US Midwest.

I’m not Islamophobic. My fear of Islam is reasonable and well founded, and therefore fails the DSM definitions of phobia. My fear of Muslims is far less than my fear of their religion.

 

[obadiah]

I have never been to a muslim country. I have never been to an arabic-speaking country.

I have had my life threatened by muslims 3 times in the last 2 years, on all occasions for being openly Christian, rather than secular. All within 100 miles of my residence, in fact.

I have had my life, my freedom to travel inside my own country, and my right to privacy trampled because of a dozen or two angry muslims who decided to hijack a few planes and use them as weapons.

I have known few muslims, and have seen much violence done in the name of the Allah of the Muslims, albeit remotely. I have never met an obvious muslim who was not openly in favor of violence against at least some non-muslims. All the muslims I’ve gotten to know have shown me that they consider all non-muslims grist for the mill of muslim aggression. Even a 12 year old citing the Qu’ran to justify lying to teachers.

A muslim man used being muslim as an affirmative defense for beating his wife to death in the US Midwest.

I’m not Islamophobic. My fear of Islam is reasonable and well founded, and therefore fails the DSM definitions of phobia. My fear of Muslims is far less than my fear of their religion.

I converted to Islam in the early 70s, I converted to Christianity after that. I AM AN APOSTATE MUSLIM. I DARE ANY MUSLIM TO EXECUTE ME. ISLAM IS AN EVIL ANTICHRIST RELIGION.

 

[cyberjacques]

Mr. abu kamoon, you’re arguing against positions nobody has taken, using flawed evidence to support it.

Because Muslims don’t recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ, seeing him as a prophet, is that cause to hate them? Do you feel the same way about Jews?

We don’t accept Muhammed as a prophet in Christianity, whereas the Jews reject Jesus Christ. Freedom of religion means that we are free to believe what we will. I think some people need to learn a little tolerance.

Who said anything about hating people for disagreeing with your religion? I don’t care what someone thinks about my religion, but as soon as they start trying to blow me up, then I get a little touchy.

The media in the country is dedicated to producing propaganda for our politicians. Much of that propaganda is aimed at producing hatred. Blacks have been portrayed as criminal buffons by the media, while our politicians come up with programs like “Affirmative Action” All Affirmative Action does is to portray blacks as incapable of competing against whites. This creates friction between blacks and whites.

It’s an interesting example you chose of the hateful media/politician dynamic. Do you realize that the same liberal media and politicians that came up with Affirmative Action and perpetuate the stereotype of blacks as thugs are the same people who want us to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion? If they were so bent on “equal opportunity hate” then why aren’t they all over Muslims too?

Muslims are also targeted. Certainly there are terrorist groups in the Middle East, but they are not reflective of most Muslims. Some Americans say: why don’t you peaceful Muslims speak up? Well, they do. You hear them on the Catholic Forum all the time. People argue with them.

Why don’t you hear Muslims in the media speaking out against terrorism? Because they don’t fit in with the message the media present.

What, because one forum that not nearly enough people know about is really a place to spread such an important message of Islamic peace? No names, no pictures, no publicity, no risk at all for someone who wants to pretend they are speaking out against violence. This forum is a valuable method of exchanging ideas, but it is not a media outlet. The liberal media would like nothing better than to have a significant number of Muslims start proclaiming peace, because that’s what they want to believe. But it hasn’t happened yet. That’s why the few hollow statements from organizations like CAIR are plastered all over the media. That’s all there is! And the tiny handful of Muslims who do try to criticize Islam are often silenced because someone is afraid that it’s going to offend other Muslims.

Islam has given us every reason to be afraid, and none to be at ease.

And as far as your refusal to read a translation of the Quran, do you have any problems reading a translation of the Bible? Because I’ll let you in on a little secret… it wasn’t written in English! And the Quran, regardless of the language you read it in, tells Muslims to lie to infidels, so I hardly think asking them about it is a reliable way to get the truth.

 

[Montalban]

And what was the religion of those who perpetuated the St. Bartholomews Day Massacre? Or the 30 years war? Or the Salem Witch Trials?

Who cares? It’s as irrelevant as whether they had red hair or not UNLESS you can draw a causal link between the teachings of Jesus, the history of Christian thought, and their actions

 

[Montalban]

I do not condone any of the bad things Mohammed did do. Nor am I an Islamic apologist, believe me. I have no love for Islamic civilization. my concern is making knee jerk reactions and generalizations such as Islam being intrinsically violent. Christians did that to the Jews in the middle ages and we are still trying to live that down. We can not make that same mistake with the Muslims.

Those ‘bad things’ Muhammed did are denied by Moslems as being bad!

 

[Wolseley]

It takes an ideology that diminishes the individual and his/her right at freedom of choice and expression.

It’s why we saw Marxist IRA members able to blow up pubs. Why socialist/Marxist Tamils can blow themselves up. And why Moslems can do the same.

Buddhism respects life. Christianity respects life.

Well, it’s nice to see that you understand that radical Islam is a violent, agenda-driven ideology very similar to socialist Marxism, as opposed to the Christian Faith.

At least you’re not projecting the Christian mindset onto Islam and saying “Oh, but it’s a peaceful, loving, tolerant religion!” as so many are doing.

That’s a start.
abu kamoon:

I think some people need to learn a little tolerance.

You’re right. The terrorists do. The terrorists are the ones who need to learn to be more tolerant.

A LOT more tolerant.

 

[Montalban]

That’s a start.

Thanks for the thumbs up

 

[paarsurrey]

At least you’re not projecting the Christian mindset onto Islam and saying “Oh, but it’s a peaceful, loving, tolerant religion!” as so many are doing.

Buddhism respects life. Christianity respects life.

Hi

Buddhism respects life. Christianity respects life. Islam respects life more than Buddhism and Christianity, only if they could understand the peaceful Islam.

I think one day, they would understand, that is why I am trying it.
I try thinking positively for peace in this green earth under the blue sky.

May GodAllahYHWH bless you all!

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

At least you’re not projecting the Christian mindset onto Islam and saying “Oh, but it’s a peaceful, loving, tolerant religion!” as so many are doing.

Buddhism respects life. Christianity respects life.

Hi

Buddhism respects life. Christianity respects life. Islam respects life more than Buddhism and Christianity, only if they could understand the peaceful Islam.

I think one day, they would understand, that is why I am trying it.
I try thinking positively for peace in this green earth under the blue sky.

May GodAllahYHWH bless you all!

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

Hi

Buddhism respects life. Christianity respects life. Islam respects life more than Buddhism and Christianity, only if they could understand the peaceful Islam.

What measure do you use for concluding this?

In other words: How do you measure the degree of respect? Is there a ‘respect test’ you employ by which Islam trumps all others?

I would assume from past for you will ignore this or spam me with more stuff that has nothing to do with the question. Will you prove me wrong?